Right. They'd hardly need a heavy turtleneck and a coat on the ship where I'm sure the engines could, along with propelling the ship, power a heater to keep the interior warm without the need for layers of clothing that would have sufficed for a winter's day on Earth. Not long before, Kirk was wearing short sleeved whites, wasn't he? And if Scotty needed a heavier uniform to hide his girth, they could have fashioned him in some engineer's protective suit. I didn't like the uniforms in TMP, but I really, really hated the ugly red costumes after that, particularly with the coat flapping untidily open and the closing seams exposed. Just a sloppy, and ugly look.
Hey, I never noticed that before....
- Thread starter Warped9
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Right. They'd hardly need a heavy turtleneck and a coat on the ship where I'm sure the engines could, along with propelling the ship, power a heater to keep the interior warm without the need for layers of clothing that would have sufficed for a winter's day on Earth. Not long before, Kirk was wearing short sleeved whites, wasn't he? And if Scotty needed a heavier uniform to hide his girth, they could have fashioned him in some engineer's protective suit. I didn't like the uniforms in TMP, but I really, really hated the ugly red costumes after that, particularly with the coat flapping untidily open and the closing seams exposed. Just a sloppy, and ugly look.
Yes, the TMP uniforms could have used more colour, even muted tones. But at least they looked evolutionary from TOS.
The only serious TMP uniform misstep was the one-piece outfit no one looked good in.
TMP is actually my favourite of all the Trek films. Particularly with the release of the recent 2022 DE—the film finally feels finished as it should have been in 1979. It has aged better than all the others. And it seems to work better now than most everything that followed it particularly in light of Trek since the JJ films.
But in terms of design I can still quibble. As a standalone science fiction film the designs look amazing. But as an extension of TOS it feels a bit disconnected design wise. They were so juiced on having a budget to do what they wanted they went a little too far distancing themselves from what came before.
The only serious TMP uniform misstep was the one-piece outfit no one looked good in.
TMP is actually my favourite of all the Trek films. Particularly with the release of the recent 2022 DE—the film finally feels finished as it should have been in 1979. It has aged better than all the others. And it seems to work better now than most everything that followed it particularly in light of Trek since the JJ films.
But in terms of design I can still quibble. As a standalone science fiction film the designs look amazing. But as an extension of TOS it feels a bit disconnected design wise. They were so juiced on having a budget to do what they wanted they went a little too far distancing themselves from what came before.
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Some of the UFO form fitting uniforms as well. The 1980 version of Brave New World had costumes reminiscent of TMP as well; both were probably filmed around the same time. For some reason, many assumed that people in the future will have some great affinity for tight, form fitting outfits.
Exactly. I think there's a Roddenberry quote in The Making of Star Trek where he says, roughly from memory, "Every time somebody explained to me what clothing in the future would be, it sounded like long underwear." So GR rejected that, and got the TOS uniforms that look more practical and frankly, more compatible with traditional gender roles.
Then came TMP, and he completely forgot that most of us don't want to see our heroes in "neutered" onesie suits like so many Teletubbies. On top of that, the execution was so bad, you could see McCoy's and Decker's private parts.
They might have been form fitting as well, but the uniforms for UFO were awesome. I especially loved the sub uniforms. Every uniform in UFO was designed for the service it represented. UFO was a great show that I still watch. And when I watch I appreciate the great costume design of UFO in all its variations. While when I see those red jackets and heavy ribbed neck turtlenecks in the trek movies after TMP, I wince and half close my eyes because they make no sense. And I don't like Spock in heavy thick robes either.
Why can't Spock's robes be ceremonial? Something Vulcans don't wear on all occasions, only formal ones. Just as a priest in his living room reading the newspaper, or taking a turn about the garden, wouldn't wear his long flowing garments either.
Sure, they can. I just don't like the robes, or the costume design in general. The heavy thick weaves. I didn't like them on Spock or on Sarek either, with the heavy plastic looking embedded jewelry. Spock and Sarek, T'Pau, always looked elegant in TOS. There was no respect for the past or for continuity (no surprise since they didn't elsewhere with the other aliens etc).
I think if they had just done the two piece uniforms with black pants they would have been a whole lot better received.
I also didn’t mind the idea behind the one-piece, they were reminiscent of the TOS coveralls, they just needed to be fitted more loosely in the crotch.
It didn't help that the lighting on the bridge was so dark. Between the monotone uniforms and the dark lighting, compared to the bright multicolors in lighting and uniforms in the original TOS, the film had two strikes against it from the start. And the shoe uniforms -- so ridiculous.
But TOS portrayed Spock as being all about logic, which apparently led him to be a scientific materialist. And he dressed the part. Only "Amok Time" gave the Vulcans any "ancient ritual" garb, and that was just for the ushers and executioner at a wedding. Very understandable.
But starting with TMP, the movies decided Spock was fundamentally a pre-scientific mystic, a monk, like some guy out of the Bible, or Kane's teachers on Kung Fu. Accordingly, he was going around in ceremonial robes, and Sarek was ready for Dungeons and Dragons. That was never how you thought of them on TV.
Exactly. I think Nimoy forgot a large portion of his role (understandable after 15 years) and played it either too robotic or hippie dippie mystical. And I realize a lot of people's first introduction to Sarek was not JTB but the movies or TNG. But Sarek was not a nice person in JTB. Refused to acknowledge his son's greeting, (after not speaking to him in any familial way for 18 years) made prejudiced comments about Earthmen, Tellarites. Seemed to be doing his best to keep Amanda away from her son, calling her to him when she stopped to talk to Spock in Engineering (if I remember right), taking her away from the party. I know Mark Lenard is a nice guy, and maybe he had some influence on the changes to the character. And of course Spock supposedly reconciled with Sarek after JTB. But Sarek was still a pretty prejudiced guy in that episode to more than Spock. (A bit of a brawler too, tossing that Tellarite against the wall). But it isn't Sarek so much as Spock's characterization that bothered me. Other than some fan service dialogue, I felt he was in some ways not finding his way back to the character. McCoy, Scotty yes. Kirk was a little off, but then he had some backstory to explain his behavior. We never really got Spock's backstory as to why he left Fleet, and sought Kohlinar (which I never bought anyway). I guess the costumes they gave Spock (and Sarek) added to the hippie dippie aspect of the movie Vulcans. But I rather liked the bad ass Sarek, and his conflicted son. Way to Eden was as hippie dippie as I wanted Spock to be
It was probably less Nimoy and more Roddenberry, who had 15 years of being essentially a new age guru to college kids, that probably made the Vulcans suddenly more mystical.
Not to drag this thread too far off topic, but regarding Spock and the other characters in TMP.
Since 1979 the audio in TMP was…not great. There was a lack of ambient background noise. And the characters didn’t sound right. It came across as monotone and contributed to film’s somewhat sterile feel.
But if nothing else the 2022 DE corrected that. The remastered audio allows the characters to sound as they should. They are no longer monotone. They’re nuanced and natural sounding. They sound like themselves as we remembered them. And the world, the ship, they inhabit finally feels real and three-dimensional because of the background sounds that were absent or barely present before.
Since 1979 the audio in TMP was…not great. There was a lack of ambient background noise. And the characters didn’t sound right. It came across as monotone and contributed to film’s somewhat sterile feel.
But if nothing else the 2022 DE corrected that. The remastered audio allows the characters to sound as they should. They are no longer monotone. They’re nuanced and natural sounding. They sound like themselves as we remembered them. And the world, the ship, they inhabit finally feels real and three-dimensional because of the background sounds that were absent or barely present before.
As opposed to a sub crew wearing fishnet shirts, which makes perfect sense!
I don't know what subs are like now, but from what I heard, subs were often hot and humid places. So fishnet does make sense!
And it looks cool. You'll never get me to admit those UFO costumes were bad. I loved almost everything about UFO.Is that available on streaming somewhere?
I’m not sure. Perhaps Paramount+. I have the Bluray so I paid only once and can watch it whenever I want. I also have the previous DE on DVD and the differences are startling, particularly the audio.
Right now, HBO Max has the ST:TMP Directors Edition for available for streaming,, along with all the other TOS feature films. (probably a contract they signed before Paramount decided to expand Paramount+'s streaming reach.)
How long it and the other films will remain with HBO Max I don't know. Probably at least 6 months to a year.
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