HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Grade

[stj]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

In all these pages has no one stated the obvious? The show chickened out in the climax of season one and has never recovered. All the frenetic action is getting boring because none of it matters. The older actors, like Padar, Rose, Coleman, Grunberg are the only ones who could potentially carry a successful drama. Unfortunately, the show was, is and will always be committed to Emo Boy, Supervirgin, Comic Hero and Tim Kring's hardon for Ali Larter, and committed to reliving the same scenarios over and over. All for the delectation of the fans. It's character driven drama which means it will inevitably turn to total shit. The process is well along the way. Aren't people really thinking about dropping the show now?

PS The prophetic dreaming thing is obviously a rethink. Charles DeVoe was the guy who Peter got dream powers from, for a start. And the Hindu kid they dropped also had dream powers.

 

[A Clockwork Lim]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Yeah, I don't buy prophetic dreams as Angela's originally intended power. The very first episode of the show implied that she had some power that helped her be a thief (she was complaining about how she missed doing such things), and there were several hints through both seasons that her power was closer to a persuasion or post-hypnotic power than anything else.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

In all these pages has no one stated the obvious? The show chickened out in the climax of season one and has never recovered. All the frenetic action is getting boring because none of it matters. The older actors, like Padar, Rose, Coleman, Grunberg are the only ones who could potentially carry a successful drama. Unfortunately, the show was, is and will always be committed to Emo Boy, Supervirgin, Comic Hero and Tim Kring's hardon for Ali Larter, and committed to reliving the same scenarios over and over. All for the delectation of the fans. It's character driven drama which means it will inevitably turn to total shit. The process is well along the way. Aren't people really thinking about dropping the show now?

I'll give it a while more to right the ship, but I can understand the frustration. I agree that Pasdar, Coleman, Grunberg, and Rose are the best performers without a doubt. I'm hoping Nathan's storyline really goes somewhere, and that the history of Angela is intriguing. Islanding Parkman in his own storyline is a huge mistake. I could do without Hiro for awhile.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

It's easy to make people think you're forcing them to do stuff if you already know how they are going to react and what their end game is.

Besides, just because her actual super power is passive, it hardly means that she isn't useful or good in a fight (Kitty Pryde in the comics is a Ninja. A villain brain washed her and gave the little girl 20 years of training in a couple hours as a prelude to assimilation which didn't take.)if I don't know, she had a penchant for hand guns? or she dreams where to put the explosives, that she's murdering her opposition a week or a month before they actually do face off totally like Bill and Ted.

It's all a question of what sort of opposition to their new world order did these people face int he 70s? Since Adam was on their side until he wasn't and then they locked him up in a box for 30 years to barely be remembered as an afterthought.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

I don't get all the Maya hate.

Because she was utterly USELESS last season.

Maya "[Palo] don't do that!"
"Palo" "I have to."
Maya's eyes turn black, people die."
"Palo" reverses it.
Maya "Oh, Sylar! You're so great to help us get to America!"

Repeat for every. Single. Fucking. Episode they're in!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Yeah. That about covers it.

The only justification for Maya being there is that she might be hot to some people. But even if you judge her meat kindly, the intellect the actress is pretending to express is... Dustin Hoffman has been from time to time an attractive man over the years but if he agreed to have sex with you only if he was allowed to stay in character as Rainman? Or ditto for Tom Hank's as Forrest Gump? Although Sean Penn as I am Sam might be an improvement.

Maya is obviously intellectually retarded.

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Maya is obviously intellectually retarded.

I wouldn't go that far. But she ain't bright.

And I don't find her all that good looking, personally. She just has a "quality" I don't like. It could be the vapidness... Oh my God.

She's LANA!

 

[melancholymecha]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

There's also a deleted scene on the season 2 DVD of his sons coming to see him when he's all burned, but he lashes out at them because he feels like a freak. Then one of the boys rushes in to hug him before they leave and tells Nathan that he loves him. Nathan breaks down and hugs him back. Whoever made the decision to delete that scene needs a lobotomy--or already had a lobotomy. It was very touching.

I havent gotten the chance to watch the season 2 dvd yet. I still dont know if I should buy it or just rent the discs. But that scene will be something to look forward too.

Right now Maya is acting a lot smarter than Mo is.

 

[hxclespaulplayer]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

After a quick look I couldn't find a decent photo other than the one from here but for a short while she wore her hair in an odd fashion. It was basically squat little knots of hair sticking out in every direction, vaguely like the Sputnik satellite.

Aha, now I understand, had no idea why it was called a sputnik based on the majority of pix out there

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Mo proved he doesn't have two brain cells to rub together the moment he turned on Bennet for no reason whatsoever... Oh, that's right, because they were helping Nikki find a cure... That's why he assumed that Bob wasn't evil because he was too simple to realise that even the devil quotes scripture or that the billiona dollar multinational Company hiring 100,00's of people responsible for god knows what evil over the last 30 years also infected Nikki in the first place... Oh, and what the fuck? Giving Sylar his powers back? Oh, that was the smartest thing to do in the world, maybe as smart as not having a pass word set on your lap top when you know government spooks are monitoring you constantly that he wouldn't even consider encrypting his files or even not working in English considering his primary opposition up to that point were not from back home?

If Mo and Maya had a child it would need a shorter bus.

he didn't even realise in the last episode that every word coming out of his mouth was angering Maya to the point that she must have been considering killing him to save the world from a slue plague of cursed super powered gods and monsters.

He can't see the world around him with any clarity that it's like he really does have his head up his ass.

 

[DarthPipes]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Maya is very nice to look at but that's about it. She's as dumb as Mohinder, and that's pretty dumb, and she's been completely useless.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Did she screw Sylar?

I mean the working theory is that people who get laid often don't have to be exceptional or strive for greatness because they're content and satisfied, and if she did bump uglies with him better than a bowl of warm pudding then it's possible that she could have diffused his entire agenda to harvest the worlds superpowers in exchange for some good good loving.

So they did it and she wasn't very good, or they didn't do it, but she could have saved the world by using what's between her legs with any tact and then she wouldn't have been completely useless.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

In all these pages has no one stated the obvious? The show chickened out in the climax of season one and has never recovered. All the frenetic action is getting boring because none of it matter

If all the drama is based on who lives and who dies, yeah. But every show I can think of has obvious sacred cows - characters who cannot be killed because they are too central to the story. You think Lost will kill Locke? A show called Dexter will never kill Dexter Morgan, and I'd say Deb is pretty safe for the duration too. The foregone conclusion about the survival of characters is a problem across the board for all shows. So expecting us to tremble that this or that character may die is a non-starter. For this show to be good, it can't just be about that.

Heroes just needs to have the drama revolve around something other than characters living or dying, and all that requires is that they have something to lose that they could lose, that would matter to them as much as their life, and that the audience can care about.

Nathan's religious plotline might provide that element for him. If they get serious about Claire wanting to grow up and not be a victim, that could be her story.

Matt's story should be about cleaning up the wreckage that the powers have made of his life and winning back his wife. Matt Jr. is his biological son, no matter what she says - the kid had superpowers in 5YG. And maybe Matt still wants to be a cop. How does that square with his very interesting powers he has - which would be so perfect for a cop, they're actually scary and prone to abuse. That could be a great story in itself.

So far Peter (real Peter, Future Peter doesn't count) is too reactive and Hiro is being too trivial. Even tho Mohinder's being stupid, I do like his story being all about his compulsion to learn the truth about things - he's a real scientist, nothing wrong with that.

Angela and Noah are both trying to protect their families. Ando's got something going with wanting to step out of Hiro's shadow, or could have that. I have no idea what Nikki is good for, but having half a dozen intriguing plotlines going at once is more than enough for any show.

But it's early in the season, I'll give em some time. The elements are all there, they just need to bring them together.

Did she screw Sylar?

Open to interpretation but personally I hope not. Eee-eewwww.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Heroes just needs to have the drama revolve around something other than characters living or dying, and all that requires is that they have something to lose that they could lose, that would matter to them as much as their life, and that the audience can care about.

Natan's sons would be a good example. Killing them off would provide plenty of motivation for Nathan to say the least. That loss would affect his relationships with everybody on the canvas.

 

[Dream]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Did she screw Sylar?

Open to interpretation but personally I hope not. Eee-eewwww.

For some reason I always thought you considered Sylar to be hot.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Did she screw Sylar?

Open to interpretation but personally I hope not. Eee-eewwww.

For some reason I always thought you considered Sylar to be hot.

Interesting more than hot. Good actor, pretty decent character. But that whole scenario with Maya was beyond nasty. She's so stupid, it's like pedophilia, because she has the mind of a child. Since Mo is also about ten years old mentally, with him it's okay.

Natan's sons would be a good example. Killing them off would provide plenty of motivation for Nathan to say the least.

Too melodramatic, and I don't see why that would do anything interesting for the character. He's already on an interesting path, they should leave the kiddies alone for now.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Come on. Offing one of Nathan's kids would be cool. Those big long eyelashed eyes of Pasdar's do the angst sooo well. It would test the man's newfound faith in God.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Come on. Offing one of Nathan's kids would be cool. Those big long eyelashed eyes of Pasdar's do the angst sooo well. It would test the man's newfound faith in God.

Eh, sounds pretty cliched. The problem with vengeance plotlines is that it flattens out the character's individuality. A parent whose child is murdered ceases to be an individual and becomes a "type." You have the Vengeance Seeker or in keeping with the religious tone of Nathan's story, he might become even more of a one-note Saint. Neither interests me. There are much better things to do with Nathan.

So no, poor, cliched writing is not "cool." Or maybe I just expect more from this show than you do than the creation of angst for its own sake, which is an unimaginative and stupid form of writing, though of course very common on TV because it's good for filling airtime and generating cheap thrills and angsty scenes for the ads, but I recognize it for the cheap trick it is and when I catch a show pulling that kind of crap, it doesn't fill me with admiration.

The kiddies are not what Nathan is about as a character. The core of his character is that he suffers from a tendency to be morally flexible and ride roughshod over people he loves for the sake of expediency. How this jibes with the religious material is still to be seen, but the last thing Nathan needs is more distraction from the core of his story.

Heroes' problem lately is that it isn't being disciplined and hanging onto what they've started to build for the core of these characters. Ideally, each character should be on a different mission. Peter used to want to pro-actively seek heroism; now he's just being pulled along passively in the wake of other characters. His core is his misguided and maybe somewhat pathological need to be heroic and self-sacrificing. He's got a martyr concept. These characters all have the beginnings of interesting arcs, the writers just need to focus!

 

[PlainSimpleJoel]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Did she screw Sylar?

Who knows. That is something we might find out soon.

Also, watching the bufferfly effect again ... did anyone notice what I put in spoilers.

Spoiler: Mohinder and Maya

Does it seem like they are being watched ... one, you see a few seconds where it looks like a TV, and the background is different. And, two, the company does have a camera in the Mohinder's lab (remember last season with Elle going after Sylar)

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: HEROES 3x01 "Second Coming" and 3x02 "Butterfly Effect" Discuss/Gr

Heroes' problem lately is that it isn't being disciplined and hanging onto what they've started to build for the core of these characters. Ideally, each character should be on a different mission. Peter used to want to pro-actively seek heroism; now he's just being pulled along passively in the wake of other characters. His core is his misguided and maybe somewhat pathological need to be heroic and self-sacrificing. He's got a martyr concept. These characters all have the beginnings of interesting arcs, the writers just need to focus!

Good luck. The writers are one trick ponies so far; save the future this way. Save the future that way. Give Hiro a cute adventure. I wish they'd concentrate on Nathan's capacity to ride roughshod over his loved ones, but I'm not holding my breath that they'll do it justice.