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"Hell Bent" Grade and discussion thread

Grading

  • Be a Doctor

    Votes: 58 43.9%
  • Gallifrey Stands

    Votes: 37 28.0%
  • A Hybrid

    Votes: 19 14.4%
  • Gallifrey falls

    Votes: 10 7.6%
  • Sent it to the end of time

    Votes: 8 6.1%

  • Total voters
    132
while the Time Lords might not be happy with the Doctor stealing a TARDIS, they might give him some leeway since he is one of them and knows the risks.

Except they only ever gave him lee way after the rescinded his exile to Earth. Before that they didn't much care for his running around time and space and constant meddling with things enough to put him on trial for it. And yet despite this they never showed the ability to recall his Tardis which you would think they would do to prevent what they see as serious crimes.
 
Although it is possible that the Time Lords don't know that Clara and ME are running around in a TARDIS. The last they saw, it was the Doctor who stole another TARDIS. So, they may not be aware of what happened later.

Put me down for a fiver - I'll take "it will never be mentioned again".
 
I just loved that original TARDIS set. I never wanted them to leave that room. I'm glad they spent quite a bit of time in there because they obviously spent a lot of time building it. I hope we see it again at some future point.

They actually had to really rush the shooting on that set. The console was taken from the Experience and then painted white (as well as the labels being replaced), and then swiftly repainted and sent back as soon as shooting was complete. A friend of mine was in the Experience after hours putting all the original labels back on so it could be back on display.

Neat! Though I'm not sure they were THAT much in a hurry. I was at the Experience while the console was absent, and in its place they had a stand-in, half-finished console prop partially covered by a sheet. It's not like the visitors could get close enough to touch the exhibit anyway, and it was set up to look like it was in the 1960s, or the filming of the "Time and Space" docudrama from 2013.

The day I was there was also the day AFTER they shot the Diner scenes, and I saw the place... It's cool to know that now any tourist can visit the inside of a Diner which is canonically the outside of a TARDIS!

And on that, I don't think the diner from "The Impossible Astronaut" was Clara's TARDIS. Her ship simply copied the actual one (the Doctor mentioned it should have been on the other side of the hill) and settled into where he found it. Also, in its previous appearance the Doctor walked right through the Elvis door. That doesn't really preclude it being Clara's, but...

http://33.media.tumblr.com/89bd4ccfb58791c8100f1fe1320fe889/tumblr_inline_mzcezptKQy1qf2h9o.png

Mark
 
As have become the norm this season, I am rather torn. Mostly, it was really good, but some parts sunk it a little bit for me.

First off, I thought it was amazingly well acted. Pretty much all the scenes in the diner, and especially the last ones were fantastic. I also really liked the Tardis scenes after The doctor and Ashildr entered.

The plot was a perhaps not brilliant, but worked out. A little slow to start, but picked up some good steam. I liked the environment in the cloister, and thought the angels were a nice touch. The Ashildr/Clara going off in the Dinertardis felt rather silly, and I felt it would have made more sense character wise if she had went back and sacrificed herself.

Also, which has been touched upon, Moffat really is bad at following up on his own ideas. It's getting rather ridicilous, promising grand things and delivering very little year after year. He needs someone to reel him in, I'd say.
 
I just don't understand the whole deal with the Hybrid. Why is it an issue now? Why wasn't it an issue before the Time War, or even during it? It doesn't make a lick of sense.

Not. At. All.

No, it does not really make sense but we will just have to accept that the Hybrid was a red herring. Really, if you think about it, the whole purpose of the finale was to give Clara her Doctor-like send-off. Everything else was just an excuse to set things up for that.

Essentially the Hybrid works like the Sugar Bowl in A Series of Unfortunate Events.

It's not a pea under the mattress so much as an air bubble.
 
Thought it was an incredible episode myself. And I finally realized the problem I've been having with this season, which is that Moffat simply hadn't written enough of it. We had the brilliant Dalek two-parter, a bunch of mostly pedestrian stuff in the middle, and then finally two more amazing episodes at the end.

I've often felt his episodes were the strongest of any season, but it seemed especially apparent this time unfortunately.

I just hate that they'd bring Gallifrey back, but not really do nothing with it. What a colossal letdown.

I suppose after all the buildup they could have done more, but personally for this story I would have much rather have kept the main focus on Clara the way they did. And it's not like Moffat didn't do some new and interesting stuff with Gallifrey, or spend an awful lot of time there.
 
I can't help but wonder, will we ever revisit Clara and Ashildr? Something should be done with them before Capaldi leaves, but this could be problematic given the "ageless" aspect of the characters. Even bringing them back after just a year or two you run the risk of Coleman or Williams having noticeable aged somewhat, which is a problem given Clara is essentially frozen in a particular moment and Ashildr has lived trillions of years already without aging.

I'd think you coulfd fudge it as long as its within the next five or ten years. Anyhow, either or both might gain the ability to regenerate due to exposure to Tardis energy in their unusual states of living.

I would think that the Time Lords on Gallifrey would intervene and try to take her TARDIS back. First, because it is stolen propriety

If they could the Doctor and Missy wouldn't been running around with stolen ones.

The Master had multiple TARDIS's (TARDII ?). Maybe they don't keep track of them as well as they should do.

They're inear indestructible time machines. Use one for as long as you like and return it at the same moment that you stole it, who's to know ?

You're immortal, take a cutting and wait - grow your own ! Captain Jack was growing one.

10A could be growing one too. I choose to believe the alternate reality he and Rose ended up in is the same one that Peter Cushing was the first Doctor in. That Doctor died sometime before the Eccleston regeneration.

After the Time War it must be possible to find an abandoned, damaged or fragmented Tardis. At least if you know where to look.
 
None of the Time Splinter stuff is explained.

If you are referring to the splinter Claras, that was all fully explained back in the season 7 episode, "The Name of the Doctor".

I must be missing something then.... I was under the impression that there was still something to do with the Time Splinters. I'll have to rewatch The Name Of The Doctor.

Also, I was a bit confused as to the reason why there were a Dalek, Angels and a Cyberman in the Cloister, and the exact purpose of the cloister. I had to rewatch at a later time, and unfortunatly, the audio was not very loud, so some parts were a bit unclear to me.
 
I must be missing something then.... I was under the impression that there was still something to do with the Time Splinters. I'll have to rewatch The Name Of The Doctor.


No the mystery of the time-splinters was solved then - Time-splinters might be still out there but their main narrative purpose came and went.
 
I must be missing something then.... I was under the impression that there was still something to do with the Time Splinters. I'll have to rewatch The Name Of The Doctor.


No the mystery of the time-splinters was solved then - Time-splinters might be still out there but their main narrative purpose came and went.

I just read some stuff at the Tardis Wiki. Yeah... duh.... kinda stupid how I forgot about that.

I recall the earlier spyshots for this episode though, and how people thought it was going to be a splinter of Clara. I guess that's why I asumed we'd be getting more info on that.
 
I must be missing something then.... I was under the impression that there was still something to do with the Time Splinters. I'll have to rewatch The Name Of The Doctor.


No the mystery of the time-splinters was solved then - Time-splinters might be still out there but their main narrative purpose came and went.

I just read some stuff at the Tardis Wiki. Yeah... duh.... kinda stupid how I forgot about that.

I recall the earlier spyshots for this episode though, and how people thought it was going to be a splinter of Clara. I guess that's why I asumed we'd be getting more info on that.

You were supposed to think that she might be a splinter when she behaved like she didnt know the Doctor... at least until they hinted at a memory wipe later in the episode and then did the double fake out with her still being Clara with full memory capacity and the Doctor not knowing her anymore. :)
 
My first thought was that he was hallucinating, or something similar that he did with the Tardis scenes with Clara last week.
 
It just occurred to me that the finale left Sarah in a one-of-a-kind situation that I wouldn't want to be in any circumstances, and that also happens to be some kind of a reverse grandfather paradox.

First off, she has to die, but to do so she must voluntarily step out for a painful encounter with the raven that is also frightening, and no matter how much she says she's not afraid, you know that she would be.

She's basically master of her own death, and I think that's much more unpleasant than it sounds. I don't think I would ever be able to do it, and I wouldn't be able to stop thinking how one day I will have to. And she hasn't got the option to skip it.

Second off, she cannot die until then. Whatever she does, she must avoid dying in other ways. If she dies that will make the paradox inevitable. So she is either risking the universe any time she's risking herself—which is a damning position to be in,— or she's de facto invincible because her death is in an impossible chain of events, even though she's technically still as vulnerable as she was before.

I wonder how these conversations would go...
“Who are you?”
“I'm Clara.”
“Clara WHO?!... Get out of my way NOW or I will blow you to pieces!...”
“I am afraid you can't. I am the universe's grandfather.”
 
Was exiling Rassillon and the High Council a good idea? They were content to hide from their enemies on Gallifrey at the end of the universe, but now we have a group of homeless Time Lords wandering the cosmos with a grudge.
 
Was exiling Rassillon and the High Council a good idea? They were content to hide from their enemies on Gallifrey at the end of the universe, but now we have a group of homeless Time Lords wandering the cosmos with a grudge.

I would love to see a future episode follow up on this. It is too big to simply ignore. Maybe Missy teams up with Rassillon and the Doctor has to stop both of them?
 
I ask because in the Classic series( Invasion of Time), there is a sub-section of Galifreyans that live outside the city. Unlike the Galifreyans inside the Citadel who presumably are all Time Lords and Ladies, the Galifreyans who live in the wastes reject their counterparts way of life. Watching the Classic series, you get a sense the sections of Galifreyans aren't the best of chums, but certainly aren't hostile toward one another.

My question is, why would a "high-born Galifreyan" live in the wastelands with non-Time Lords, instead of the Citadel where you'd expect those of high birth to stem from?
The people in Invasion of Time were hunter/gatherers, not farmers. They lived off the land and led very sparse, hard lives. Leela felt right at home among them, while all Rodan (the Time Lady who accompanied Leela) could do was whimper and cry at the thought of her food pills running out.

Telepathic net.

Anyone wanting to stay connected to the world, it doesn't matter where they live. :)

Also obviously their cities must be dimensionally transcendental, so that trillions of Time Lords live inside these cities, that are probably only the size of a few hundred Wallmarts from the look of the special effects we've seen.

For some reason they prefer to leave Gallifrey as untouched as possible, perhaps maybe because they're not assholes?

Or it's a siege defense?

Where the Daleks the first lot who the Time Lords went to war with?
Given the existence of the Death Zone (in The Five Doctors) and the fact that it used to be the Gallifreyan equivalent of the Colosseum - aliens scooped up from their time streams and forced to fight each other for the Time Lords' amusement - it's not too surprising that there are parts of Gallifrey where the more enlightened Time Lords don't want to live.

Or more of a sense of adventure. As a fan, of course I'll take exploration of the show's mythology or delving into the psyche of the Doctor. But the average viewer wants to see fun adventure or they'll just flip the channel.
Yes, more adventure!! But I would love it too if there was a more consistent story arc that tied together the individual adventures. The Key of Time arc with the 4th Doctor is a good example of what I am talking about. Each episode was an adventure but there was a clear purpose that tied it all together. In fact, I thought we were going to get something like that with the Search for Gallifrey.
Absolutely. More adventure, but adventure that makes sense. IOW, we start at the beginning and progress toward the end, instead of ending up with a story whose plot points are all tangled up like the mess my cats make with a ball of yarn.

And I can't help but wonder, will we ever revisit Clara and Ashildr? Something should be done with them before Capaldi leaves...
Why? So we can get all weepy over Clara's death AGAIN, and are left wondering if it's permanent this time, or if they'll fudge it yet again?

That pairing has potential for non-TV series adventures. Give them comic stories, audio stories, novels, anthology stories, and there are already fanfic stories out (on fanfiction.net). Let those be enough, and give the viewers a break from The Clara Show.

All the Companions of the new era have come back. Amy, Donna, Rose, Martha, Mickey, Jack, River...so we will definitely see Clara again. Capaldi's last episode, she'll be back.
Gah.

This is why it's pointless to get emotionally invested in the oh-so-dramatic companion departure stories in nuWho. Why bother, when they'll just be back 3 weeks later?

I would think that the Time Lords on Gallifrey would intervene and try to take her TARDIS back. First, because it is stolen propriety
If they could the Doctor and Missy wouldn't been running around with stolen ones.
Not to mention the Rani and a some other timelords not on Gallifry seen though out the classic series.
Well, at least Romana didn't steal one. The Doctor gave her K-9, and he had a copy of the TARDIS blueprints, so she could build her own.
 
The timelords are out there somewhere, the Doctor has done a runner, he will pick up a companion and shenanigans (such a lovely word) occur.

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It is a lovely word, isn't it?

A dictionary of slang, jargon & cant embracing English, American, and Anglo-Indian slang, pidgin English, gypsies' jargon and other irregular phraseology Albert Barrère (1897).
 
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