If Clara didn't die in the trap street, then what motivated the Doctor from that point?
And was the diner always Clara and Ashildr's TARDIS?
And was the diner always Clara and Ashildr's TARDIS?
"Hell Bent" Grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter JoeZhang
- Start date
That was pretty terrible. Okay, so it starts off interesting and kind of exciting with the Doctor back on the barn and the Time Lords trying to get to him. Then he effectively stages a coup, exiles Rassilon and the Council and effectively takes over Gallifrey. This was pretty riveting stuff. But then we get to retrieving Clara from her Raven attack and everything just grounds to a halt. From there on the episode is just non-stop Moffat Monologues between the Doctor and Clara and eventually Ashildr joins in and offers a few monologues of her own. The Doctor decides to wipe Clara's memory ala Donna Noble, but after another monologue they decide to let fate decide with a metaphorical coin toss who will have their memories erased. The Doctor loses his memories and after meeting briefly with Clara not knowing it's her, goes off on more adventures, while Clara has become another Doctor with her own hijacked TARDIS and Ashildr as her companion.
In the end, nothing is resolved. The Hybrid is only vaguely explained as some sort of amalgam of the Doctor and Clara or something. I'm guessing the memory wipe covers the entire time he knew Clara, so he doesn't remember Gallifrey exists, or that he even saved it, so the Gallifrey storyline basically ends on a reset button. Sure, it's still out there, only the Doctor doesn't know it and doesn't even have reason to believe otherwise.
And really, does Moffat no know how to end a season on anything other than constant monologues? This is the third finale in a row which basically consists of characters delivering monologues for over half the episode.
So onto the questions this episode raised:
The Lord President is none other than a regenerated Rassilon. Presumably not much time has passed since the Time War, the General has not aged at all, meaning Rassilon has regenerated into an older body. Okay, well, maybe it took all his effort just to regenerate and he couldn't direct the regeneration at all. But why does he and (presumably) the same Council still have power? The General was definitely against them, yet still serves them until the Doctor steps in.
After Rassilon is deposed, the General notes he was a good man once. Since when? Even in the classic era, Rassilon had a reputation as a douche.
Okay, not really a question but it is interesting that once again the only authority figure on Gallifrey the Doctor trusts is the military commander.
The Doctor tells the story of the President's daughter, with the implication he had an affair with her. Is this supposed to be a reference to his wife/Susan's grandmother?
In the end, nothing is resolved. The Hybrid is only vaguely explained as some sort of amalgam of the Doctor and Clara or something. I'm guessing the memory wipe covers the entire time he knew Clara, so he doesn't remember Gallifrey exists, or that he even saved it, so the Gallifrey storyline basically ends on a reset button. Sure, it's still out there, only the Doctor doesn't know it and doesn't even have reason to believe otherwise.
And really, does Moffat no know how to end a season on anything other than constant monologues? This is the third finale in a row which basically consists of characters delivering monologues for over half the episode.
So onto the questions this episode raised:
The Lord President is none other than a regenerated Rassilon. Presumably not much time has passed since the Time War, the General has not aged at all, meaning Rassilon has regenerated into an older body. Okay, well, maybe it took all his effort just to regenerate and he couldn't direct the regeneration at all. But why does he and (presumably) the same Council still have power? The General was definitely against them, yet still serves them until the Doctor steps in.
After Rassilon is deposed, the General notes he was a good man once. Since when? Even in the classic era, Rassilon had a reputation as a douche.
Okay, not really a question but it is interesting that once again the only authority figure on Gallifrey the Doctor trusts is the military commander.
The Doctor tells the story of the President's daughter, with the implication he had an affair with her. Is this supposed to be a reference to his wife/Susan's grandmother?
The General is a soldier. It takes a lot to make him break with the command structure headed by the President (I'm vaguely thinking of Colin Powell here: he clearly despised George W Bush - and also Rumsfeld and Cheney - but... GWB was the President, so it wasn't for Powell to question his authority or judgement. Powell was a civilian by that point, but he was still a soldier at heart).
And yes, that second point is interesting. A fannish bit of me wishes that the General had been a regenerated Spandrell, but the non-fan bit of me knows that would have been a reference too far.
Don't forget the surprise regeneration............. That was misdirection well done.
Above average, but barely. This was not a good as I was expecting. So much promise. The Doctor returns to Gallifrey, something hugely dramatic is going to happen because the Hybrid is going to attack.
But, no. Instead we get a tale where through a contrived series of events, the Doctor or Clara must erase their memory of the other. Huh? The fate of the universe is in the balance and that's the solution?! Totally contrived. Lame-o. The much anticipated hybrid was a letdown too.
There was no big huge problem to solve, just relive Clara's death and the emotions around, the Doctor himself, and then she still does get to roam the universe with no repercussions!
I did like the parts of Gallifrey that we saw, but I don't feel like we learned a lot about Gallifrey. Compare this to say Deadly Assassin or the Invasion of Time where I think you got a feel for Gallifrey. Here, not so much, which is ironic given the better effects! It never looked better!
Interesting to see how the rumors where wrong. No Tennant or McGann. That wasn't a splinter of Clara either.
And, I totally called it in one of the other threads -- the retro TARDIS was Clara's TARDIS! Well, along with Ashildr.
Mr Awe
But, no. Instead we get a tale where through a contrived series of events, the Doctor or Clara must erase their memory of the other. Huh? The fate of the universe is in the balance and that's the solution?! Totally contrived. Lame-o. The much anticipated hybrid was a letdown too.
There was no big huge problem to solve, just relive Clara's death and the emotions around, the Doctor himself, and then she still does get to roam the universe with no repercussions!
I did like the parts of Gallifrey that we saw, but I don't feel like we learned a lot about Gallifrey. Compare this to say Deadly Assassin or the Invasion of Time where I think you got a feel for Gallifrey. Here, not so much, which is ironic given the better effects! It never looked better!
Interesting to see how the rumors where wrong. No Tennant or McGann. That wasn't a splinter of Clara either.
And, I totally called it in one of the other threads -- the retro TARDIS was Clara's TARDIS! Well, along with Ashildr.
Mr Awe
Well, whether you believe The Doctor or Me was the hybrid, the prophecy came true. Both of them stood in the ruins of Gallifrey (when the met in the Cloisters). The Doctor traveled further in the future than he was when on Gallifrey and all that was left was Me and Him.
...and queue 10 people in this thread being all "NAH I KNEW IT FROM THE FIRST 10 SECONDS"
Maybe they're more used to it than the Doctor's been?
Yup. Not really any different than seeing "JAMES BOND WILL RETURN" in the credits of any EON production.
If he forgot all of THAT, he wouldn't have had much to tell Diner!Clara, now would he? He just can't remember her.
I don't think that's actually what happened. He remembers everything he's done since he met Clara, he knows he did it with a woman named Clara, but he doesn't remember any personal details about her, like what she looks or sounds like. He even has a line where he outright says he remembers a mummy on the orient express, and one or two other adventures he had with her. He mentioned it when he talked about how his memories filled themselves in even with the missing parts about Clara. Plus, he told Waitress Clara the whole story of this episode, just changing "timelords" to "street gang" and presumably other stuff to seem humanlike since he thought he was talking to a regular human (you can tell he's not remembering it wrong since she asks him where the home he was talking about was, and he just kind of brushes the question off because he can't explain he's an alien).
So, he knows where Galifrey is and how to get back to it, and everything that's happened to him, including this adventure. He just doesn't remember specifics about Clara, or any emotional attachment. He might also not remember the reasons he did certain things. At least, that's how I interpret what happened based on his dialog.
What wasn't resolved about the hybrid? I thought they explained it almost perfectly. The Doctor even stood in the ruins of Gallifrey like the prophecy predicted. The scenes between the Doctor and Me at the end of the universe took place in the cloister room. As the Doctor mentioned, the problem with prophecy is that they never tell you anything useful. Now of course there is some wiggle room there with the destroying a billion billion hearts just to heal his own...but hey, not all prophecies come true. The arc didn't go as I expected it to I admit. I was expecting some earth shattering revelation, not a personal story of how 2 people deal with loss and grief. It's actually quite refreshing to be honest. Season finales often ramp the stakes up to the max with the universe in deadly peril. This is a nice change of pace.
The memory wipe only deals with Clara. He still remembers the adventures, he remembers everything except her. How would he be able to tell her the story in the first place? It was even directly mentioned in the episode that he remembers the Ice Warrior on the submarine and the mummy on the Orient Express, but she is a blank in those memories.
Why did he ask for a human compatible neural block?
That device shouldn't have worked on him, regardless of what Clara said she did to it..
That device shouldn't have worked on him, regardless of what Clara said she did to it..
^ Yes. And the bit at the end makes me wonder if he makes the connection between the painted portrait of Clara on the TARDIS door and the woman he just talked to in the diner. He must've inferred that was her. Or at least noticed something coincidental there.
He wanted to wipe HER memory. Clara "sonic-ed" it with the glasses in the hope that it wouldn't wipe her memory. They didn't know what would happen when they pressed the button. Perhaps nothing at all. It was a shot in the dark. That was the whole point.
Unless he's half human, like "Me" insinuated. Remember, he didn't outright dismiss that hypothesis of hers. Plus it was just human "compatible", not a human "only" neural block.
I have mixed feelings about this episode. Part of it was the feeling that it was convoluted, and part of it was the nothing but references to the past and not really making the finale exciting. I liked what they did with Clara, but I really hope the doctor gets over her. He was able to get over the other companions and noe Clara really is special. I hope never to see her again, to be honest. We probably will.
I'm glad the season is over. I probably will be back for the next season because Clara is gone and we might get back to the adventure, but this series needs another show runner stat. Let Moffat take care of Sherlock and we can get a fresher perspective for Doctor Who.
In the end I probably rank this episode average but the season did end on a decent note. Considering what came before that might be a moral victory.
I'm glad the season is over. I probably will be back for the next season because Clara is gone and we might get back to the adventure, but this series needs another show runner stat. Let Moffat take care of Sherlock and we can get a fresher perspective for Doctor Who.
In the end I probably rank this episode average but the season did end on a decent note. Considering what came before that might be a moral victory.
Brilliant misdirection, Moffat. Absolutely brilliant.
And everything fits with how Moffat views The Doctor, the galactic hobo who's just interested in exploring the universe. So of course the moment he realizes Gallifrey has returned, all he does is remove the tyrant that is Lord President Rassilon and goes back to doing what's most important to him.
And everything fits with how Moffat views The Doctor, the galactic hobo who's just interested in exploring the universe. So of course the moment he realizes Gallifrey has returned, all he does is remove the tyrant that is Lord President Rassilon and goes back to doing what's most important to him.
His two parters in Sherlock are just as bad, they start of brilliantly and full of suspense and are resolved in much the same way.
Random thoughts:
-I love the idea that Rassilon regenerated from Timothy Dalton to Donald Sumpter because of the Simm Master's energy barrage. It's very comic booky.
-After 4 billion years, Ashildr finally gets what she wants: a TARDIS. There probably could've been an easier way to get one, though (hell, Jack Harkness had TARDIS coral to grow one back at Torchwood)
-Speaking of which, TARDIS: Time And Relative Diner in Space
-The Gallifreyan soldier tells the Doctor to drop his weapon, and so he drops his soup spoon. A clever callback to fencing Robin Hood with a spoon, calling it a weapon
-I miss Amy and Rory
-Rassilon kept his funky metal power glove, which shows some neat consistency with Dalton's incarnation
-Everybody loves naming the Doctor as leader, huh? Of course, it's not the first time he became president of Gallifrey
-Shouldn't the General have gone mad in some way after the regeneration? It's happened in some way to the Doctor after several of his; arguably this happened to the Simm Master as well before he became Saxon
-next season's arc will most likely bring Gallifrey fully back once and for all, or at least some major revelation. The disappearance of Gallifrey and the Time Lords is nuWho's longest strand, ever since Nine said he was the Last of the Time Lords.
-I love the idea that Rassilon regenerated from Timothy Dalton to Donald Sumpter because of the Simm Master's energy barrage. It's very comic booky.
-After 4 billion years, Ashildr finally gets what she wants: a TARDIS. There probably could've been an easier way to get one, though (hell, Jack Harkness had TARDIS coral to grow one back at Torchwood)
-Speaking of which, TARDIS: Time And Relative Diner in Space
-The Gallifreyan soldier tells the Doctor to drop his weapon, and so he drops his soup spoon. A clever callback to fencing Robin Hood with a spoon, calling it a weapon
-I miss Amy and Rory
-Rassilon kept his funky metal power glove, which shows some neat consistency with Dalton's incarnation
-Everybody loves naming the Doctor as leader, huh? Of course, it's not the first time he became president of Gallifrey
-Shouldn't the General have gone mad in some way after the regeneration? It's happened in some way to the Doctor after several of his; arguably this happened to the Simm Master as well before he became Saxon
-next season's arc will most likely bring Gallifrey fully back once and for all, or at least some major revelation. The disappearance of Gallifrey and the Time Lords is nuWho's longest strand, ever since Nine said he was the Last of the Time Lords.
I assume the General's regeneration is smoother due to access to Time Lord medicine and the general telepathic field of lots of other Time Lords around... Hence why the soldier called in "regeneration in progress", so they could help stabilise it.
New shows for 2055
2 Girls 1 TARDIS
2 broke girls in time
The time traveling Diner
Clara in charge
2 Girls 1 TARDIS
2 broke girls in time
The time traveling Diner
Clara in charge
Similar threads
