So would I. So would I.
That would be pretty cool, too.
True, but why would the Man in Black care? Or perhaps he's just after the mystery and doesn't realize what's there in relation to the A.I.'s?
HBO's "Westworld", starring Anthony Hopkins/produced by J.J. Abrams
- Thread starter Ensign_Redshirt
- Start date
If one is inclined to believe the William is the younger version of the Man in Black theory, then this episode might suggest a motive for his wanting to find the center of the Maze: to allow Dolores to finally be free so she can remember and love him. In the premiere episode, we were led to believe that MiB took her into the shed and raped her, but we never actually saw that happen, we just heard her screaming after he dragged her in there. But she does that anyway as she sees the visions of her past experiences in the loop, being raped by the host played by Trevor from Grand Theft Auto-V.
He's become more callous toward the hosts over thirty years of being frustrated by not being able to free Dolores and running through the same scenarios (he's shocked that he's never encountered the woman with the snake tattoo before), and it shows in his poor treatment of them, but it appears that he's likely a decent person on the outside. He has a foundation that saves people's lives, although don't talk business with him while he's on vacation.
The scene with Anthony Hopkins controlling all the Hosts in the field was chilling and menacing as hell, especially when the auger came over the top of the hill to consume the villa. The guy really does have a God complex.
He's become more callous toward the hosts over thirty years of being frustrated by not being able to free Dolores and running through the same scenarios (he's shocked that he's never encountered the woman with the snake tattoo before), and it shows in his poor treatment of them, but it appears that he's likely a decent person on the outside. He has a foundation that saves people's lives, although don't talk business with him while he's on vacation.
The scene with Anthony Hopkins controlling all the Hosts in the field was chilling and menacing as hell, especially when the auger came over the top of the hill to consume the villa. The guy really does have a God complex.
Speaking of a God complex, this week's review on Vox suggested that the Man in Black (not following the William theory) is a Lucifer-type character, only on a thematic level. The relevant parts:
In conclusion, the reviewer suggests that perhaps the God and Satan roles have been reversed in their handling of the A.I.'s:
It seems pretty likely to me, based on all the memories where the story character is replaced by the MiB, and based on MiB's comment that characters are the most real when you draw out strong emotions, that MiB is testing his theory by creating extremely strong emotions in situations that the characters will encounter on their loop in order to get them to become 'more real' and break their loop. And it worked for both Dolores and what's her name. My theory is that the reason he was so brutal to Dolores was so next time she was raped she would remember and fight back.
Why would the MiB care? No idea, but there's lots of possible reasons. Could be MiB is trying to recreate the gamer's high he used to get from the game when he started by finally 'Beating' it. Or he could have some kind of emotional investment in the previous incarnations of characters as you suggested. He could just be a Joker figure who wants to break everything and create chaos, or one of those characters who is disgusted by decadence and wants to punish people who indulge in it. Or he could have been a friend of Arnold who believed in his vision.
I don't know his motive yet, but I think the most telling thing is how he said he wanted to create real danger and real jeopardy, which is why I currently favor the 'Die hard gamer' theory. Playing the game knowing he can't be hurt is no longer fun for him and he wants to make he game fun again. He wants to deactivate the cheat codes and play for real.
Yeah basically I think the MiB just wants to find a way to turn the holodeck safeties off! Though this week did at least prove guests can be harmed (well I'm guessing the guy Logan pistol-whipped was a guest given his gun didn't work on him) I wonder if that's something the controllers would normally pick up on and punish (Mr Logan two more strikes and you will be ejected from the park) or whether its part of the waiver they sign? How do they police a guest who's so hyped up on bloodlust that he just beats another guest to death?
What the hell is Ford digging up? A maze? Ford is an increasingly complex character. I like the idea of him as a bad God and MiB as a good Devil.
On the whole MiB is William notion there's added evidence because just when is Bernard having these conversations with Delores given she's with William? Or is she just wandering off when the guys are asleep? The sheriff who tried to take her back until he realised she was with a guest suggests that William is in the present though, so maybe if MiB is him Ed Harris is actually in the future? That doesn't make sense either though.
Glad they're finally giving Thandie Newton more to sink her teeth into, but surely someone should have noticed that the Native American characters were making fetish dolls of the guys in hazmat suits, proving the hosts are remembering things between loops? Surely that would be a big deal?
What the hell is Ford digging up? A maze? Ford is an increasingly complex character. I like the idea of him as a bad God and MiB as a good Devil.
On the whole MiB is William notion there's added evidence because just when is Bernard having these conversations with Delores given she's with William? Or is she just wandering off when the guys are asleep? The sheriff who tried to take her back until he realised she was with a guest suggests that William is in the present though, so maybe if MiB is him Ed Harris is actually in the future? That doesn't make sense either though.
Glad they're finally giving Thandie Newton more to sink her teeth into, but surely someone should have noticed that the Native American characters were making fetish dolls of the guys in hazmat suits, proving the hosts are remembering things between loops? Surely that would be a big deal?
It was just out of ammo. When guns don't work, they just don't have any significant impact on the guest, but they do still fire. His didn't.
No idea, but I doubt it's that. The maze already exists as both Bernard knows and the Gunslinger suspects (and apparently has a map to). Whatever Ford's crafting, it's part of his new storyline, and an apparently fucked up one, too, considering what he's already apparently added (the dudes who did that to Teddy in this episode).
Yeah, it's almost painfully obvious they're one in the same. Though it was frustrating, too, because there was one scene where Delores is with William and she's (apparently) having flashbacks to what triggered her to hallucinate and run away 'in the future.'
Of course that all could have been triggered because it was an element from that first storyline she was in 30 years, but that just seems odd to include that much of a background for her at that time in the park's history. Because, seriously, what kind of innovations have they made in those 30 years that go along with, well, anything their builders have talked about since the show premiered? The 'past' Delores is 100% as real and believable as the 'future' Delores as far as I can tell.
Yeah, I didn't get that either. They've been shown to be Johnny-on-the-Spot when it comes to noticing small things along those lines, but.. they let the Amerind hosts bulid an entire religion around themselves? And share that religion with the biggest, badded villain host in the park?
^Good point about the guns. I still don't see what stops a guest getting too eager with a bowie knife and inadvertency gutting an orthodontist from Michigan though.
I'm still not convinced that William is MiB, every bit of evidence that suggests this is the case has a counterpoint that argues the reverse.
I'm still not convinced that William is MiB, every bit of evidence that suggests this is the case has a counterpoint that argues the reverse.
I still think of Lyle the Intern anytime I see Jimmi Simpson
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL675079835F8647F5
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL675079835F8647F5
Yeah, just rewatched the Saloon Heist by Armistice and Hector in Episode 1. What great use of Rolling Stones music in that scene.
They used the same music for the scene when it played itself out again in this episode too.
That guest on the train when we first see Teddy introduced is not Ed Harris' Man in Black.
Just looked like he was digging a canyon for a new adventure storyline or something. I don't think the specific thing he was digging was as important as just showing that he literally has the power of a God to reshape the Earth to his will.
That scene with Ford freezing all the Hosts working in the villa and the fields with a thought and redirecting the auger to demolish the villa was chilling, though. Great scene.
Maybe that's allowed to continue because it's a convenient way to explain the Hosts retaining the memory until a proper memory wipe can be done on all the Hosts who were exposed? If one of the Hosts starts drawing people in biohazard suits it can just be explained away as them having bad dreams about the Native American Kachina dolls.
I doubt that's what the writers had in mind but it's a good explanation (aside from the fact that Maeve was dreaming about them before she'd seen one of the dolls, though I guess you could get around that by suggesting she had seen dolls before but had forgotten)
That's something I don't get about the guns. So, if they are pointed at a guest, they fire a blank instead of a real bullet, okay. And the hosts have a mental block when functioning properly against doing anything that would really harm a guest.
Gun fights are chaotic and unpredictable though. There are ricochets, through and throughs. A blank in the eye can still be dangerous. This system should still be dangerous to the guests.
Gun fights are chaotic and unpredictable though. There are ricochets, through and throughs. A blank in the eye can still be dangerous. This system should still be dangerous to the guests.
I believe that the Hosts' Samaritan programming would kick in to prevent the kinds of "collateral damage" Jirin is talking about and they'd throw themselves in front of any wayward bullets.
Do the hosts have safeties so their punches don't hurt?
Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy explained in a post-mortem interview with Entertainment Weekly's James Hibbard why there was host-on-guest violence in Pariah and the surrounding area(s). Rather than try to transcribe what they said, I'll just copy/paste it directly from the interview:
The more people spout these theories about the show's timelines being wonky, the more it makes me want to question if they're even bothering to pay attention to what the show is actually depicting, because it really is straightforward and simplistic.
Last night's episode was really good (if a little confusing in places, as I have no idea what was up with Maeve, Dolores, and Lawrence being in numerous places at once), and I love that, between Logan's tirade against William and Ford's conversations with Dolores and the Man in Black, we're slowly getting a clearer picture of the park's history and its place in the larger world.
Last night's episode was really good (if a little confusing in places, as I have no idea what was up with Maeve, Dolores, and Lawrence being in numerous places at once), and I love that, between Logan's tirade against William and Ford's conversations with Dolores and the Man in Black, we're slowly getting a clearer picture of the park's history and its place in the larger world.
