Spoilers Hawkeye -Discussion Thread
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Most likely, with the masked stunt double doing the heavy lifting. Just another of those COVID compromises we’re (sadly) going to be seeing going forward.
Was the watch bait? That was way too casual a place to put it after all the trouble you went to get it.
Another great episode. Hawkeye is my second favorite Marvel series after WandaVision. After the CGI background conversation fest that was Loki and the slightly muddled Falcon and Winter Solider Hawkeye is just hitting it out of the park with every episode. Again, another character I didn't care all that much for and now I'm really interested in. If Clint hadn't survived Endgame we wouldn't have been able to explore all this messed up stuff going on with him. I love seeing how human he is, jaded, injured, guilt ridden, slapping frozen food all over himself. Why couldn't the Black Widow movie be as realistic as this?
Another great episode. Hawkeye is my second favorite Marvel series after WandaVision. After the CGI background conversation fest that was Loki and the slightly muddled Falcon and Winter Solider Hawkeye is just hitting it out of the park with every episode. Again, another character I didn't care all that much for and now I'm really interested in. If Clint hadn't survived Endgame we wouldn't have been able to explore all this messed up stuff going on with him. I love seeing how human he is, jaded, injured, guilt ridden, slapping frozen food all over himself. Why couldn't the Black Widow movie be as realistic as this?
I loved this episode. Once again the show perfectly balances the thoughtful and nuanced quiet moments for character development with the intense action scenes, all with wonderful banter between Kate and Clint. I'm thrilled Yelena has already shown up. I was worried that she wouldn't appear until towards the end (or at least just the final episode). This gives Clint more time to worry about this new threat (although his assessment of the situation is understandably off the mark) while dealing with Maya going after his family. I guess he now has another good reason to get home sooner!
Yeah, I'm getting that feeling, too. It would fit into her supportive role for Clint and the family and why she's so good juggling everything without batting an eye. Would also explain how she was up on the watch so quickly.
Yeah, the watch was definitely bait...although Maya took her sweet time to attack Kate. I guess she wanted to make sure the watch was taken.
Yup, I'm loving that aspect of this show. I didn't like how Endgame appeared to walk right passed all of that ugliness as if it was nothing so I'm grateful the show is taking the time to show Clint grappling with all of it. I especially loved that moment in the apartment when Clint felt so haunted by the past. That really cut me deep. Brilliant work by Bert & Bertie!
Kate is the quintessential fangirl and is still not getting what Clint is saying to her - the hero life she so glamourizes is highly dangerous and takes a huge toll on anybody ( as evidenced by half deaf Hawkeye and his beat up body). I think Kate needs a massive cold shower to get her out of this and look at the whole thing with clear eyes and i think she'll get it before she is able to take her place in her own show or even a new Avengers team much further down the line.
Now i'm curious how Clint is going to convince her that he didn't kill Nat - the actual story is so bonkers you might as well not tell it without actual proof ( of which there is none). The watch intrigues me to - it's too often mentioned to remain a McGuffin so let's see what happens in the last 2 episodes.
Now that she’s faced him, she may not need convincing. “You could barely keep up with me, or even that deaf girl, there’s no way you could have gotten the better of her. I just wanted to make sure. Now…why does Contessa Valentina want you dead?”
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Also, I'm not sure they ever actually used Bobbie's "Mockingbird" codename on the show. But even if they did, so what? It's a codename. There's more than one Black Widow, there can be more than one Mockingbird. Indeed, by the end of this show there's probably going to be more that one Hawkeye too . . .
I think even in the comics there's been more than one copy of the thing floating about at any given time . . . or the thing can exist in more than one place at a time, because: magic book!
All this said though, as much as I love AoS, I honestly wouldn't hold my breath in regards to any of it ever showing up in the movies, or the movies/new shows going out of their way to avoid contradicting it.
Careful. The internet can only withstand so many rational, fact supported posts.
Episode 4 was really enjoyable. Renner and Steinfeld make for a great double act and I'm pleased we got some time to just enjoy them spending time together because guessing it's going to be all action from here to the end. @Saul I think Hawkeye might be my second favourite behind WandaVision too.
Guessing Thanos was right mug's are a thing?
Guessing Thanos was right mug's are a thing?
Is it bad that I want one?Guessing Thanos was right mug's are a thing?
...if only to troll people and say he was right about something else (something innocuous or something he said as an aside...or something from the Star-Lord T'Challa episode of What If...?).
Great episode. Loved the quiet moments with Clint and Kate celebrating Christmas together and Clint talking about Natasha, and the fight to the reveal at the end was great too. Really liking how this series is coming together and Hailee is fitting into the character of Kate really nicely.
I didn't see FATWS or Loki (Yet anyway) but already I think Hawkeye is better than Wandavision, which I thought kind of just lost it in the final few episodes
I didn't see FATWS or Loki (Yet anyway) but already I think Hawkeye is better than Wandavision, which I thought kind of just lost it in the final few episodes
According to EW's article about Laura Burton being Mockingbird, AoS never called Bobi Morse Mockingbird, they always used her name.
I thought of another possibility for the owner of the watch, other than Stark, Laura. What if it's some kind of S.H.I.E.L.D. tech that she gave Clint or Natasha when she retired?
This episode was great.
Clint taping all of the frozen food and drink bags all over his body cracked me up, it's always nice to see a hero who isn't invulnerable.
Him and Kate hanging out was a lot of fun.
The LARPers popping back up was unexpected.
I was a little surprise Ylena showed up already, I wasn't expecting her to show up until the end.
We've already gotten Wiccan (One of Wanda's Sons), Patriot (Elijah Bradley) was introduced in The Falcon & The Winter Soldier, Stature (Cassandra Lang, Scott's daughter), Miss America (America Chavez) is being introduced in Dr. Strange and the Multiverse of Madness from Young Avengers.
And from Champions, they've already introduced their Falcon (Joquin Torres in The Falcon & The Winter Soldier), and we have Ms. Marvel (Kamala Khan) coming up in her own show, and Iron Heart (Riri Williams) is going to be in Black Panther: Wanda Forever and her own Disney+ show.
I thought of another possibility for the owner of the watch, other than Stark, Laura. What if it's some kind of S.H.I.E.L.D. tech that she gave Clint or Natasha when she retired?
This episode was great.
Clint taping all of the frozen food and drink bags all over his body cracked me up, it's always nice to see a hero who isn't invulnerable.
Him and Kate hanging out was a lot of fun.
The LARPers popping back up was unexpected.
I was a little surprise Ylena showed up already, I wasn't expecting her to show up until the end.
I doubt it will be that long, they're already introducing a ton of New Avengers & Champions characters, so I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a team using one of those names by the end of 2023.
We've already gotten Wiccan (One of Wanda's Sons), Patriot (Elijah Bradley) was introduced in The Falcon & The Winter Soldier, Stature (Cassandra Lang, Scott's daughter), Miss America (America Chavez) is being introduced in Dr. Strange and the Multiverse of Madness from Young Avengers.
And from Champions, they've already introduced their Falcon (Joquin Torres in The Falcon & The Winter Soldier), and we have Ms. Marvel (Kamala Khan) coming up in her own show, and Iron Heart (Riri Williams) is going to be in Black Panther: Wanda Forever and her own Disney+ show.
I had to look up who that was. You kids and your games.
The one with the "H" on the mask?
I didn't know Olson was in that.
Ok, so it's time for some theorycrafting. Coding for length.
It looks like the post-credits scene for Black Widow could take place during Clint and Kate's little holiday festive night in. And be the result of Clint butting into one of the Contessa's operations. So Yelena is sent in for a little personal catharsis to get him out of the way. But why that moment? Because that's when Allegra learned about Barton's meddling. And who did she learn it from? Either Eleanor or Jack. One of them is the Contessa's agent.
Now, Eleanor has the sinister sounding phone call. Which sure wants us to think it's to her nefarious boss in some criminal venture. But let's piece it together. She runs a security company. She has detailed files on Sloan LTD, a company which Jack owns and which is laundering money for the tracksuits. And Kate can't understand why her mom is so into Jack. What if Eleanor is a plant? Infiltrating Jack's circle? That might explain why Armand was so upset with her presence and why he tried to warn Jack of how dangerous she was.
In this reading, Jack is the villain. There need be no other. Jack COULD be "Uncle," though his suits haven't been well tailored enough to match the flashback so far. Could also be a henchman or hired goon of somebody further up the food chain. Wait and see.
Of course, the Contessa's agent COULD be Jack. He's clearly got the skills. I'm not sure how to square him with Sloan, unless it's a frame up. Which could be. Eleanor would certainly be capable of doctoring that kind if information if she was using her company for skullduggery. But it would be a solid swerve considering his counterpart from the comics is principally a villain, while still not being out of the wheelhouse considering Swordsman's later hero turn. And he has the skills.
In this reading Eleanor is the villain. Which makes her phone call as sinister as it looked. And means there is a higher up bad guy in place to be "Uncle." Fisk is certainly on the table. But Kate's dad remains a possibility as well. What if his death was faked? Could they still be in on some scheme together? That would tie Maya and Kate in an interesting and complex way as well, which might be meaty.
Now, Eleanor has the sinister sounding phone call. Which sure wants us to think it's to her nefarious boss in some criminal venture. But let's piece it together. She runs a security company. She has detailed files on Sloan LTD, a company which Jack owns and which is laundering money for the tracksuits. And Kate can't understand why her mom is so into Jack. What if Eleanor is a plant? Infiltrating Jack's circle? That might explain why Armand was so upset with her presence and why he tried to warn Jack of how dangerous she was.
In this reading, Jack is the villain. There need be no other. Jack COULD be "Uncle," though his suits haven't been well tailored enough to match the flashback so far. Could also be a henchman or hired goon of somebody further up the food chain. Wait and see.
Of course, the Contessa's agent COULD be Jack. He's clearly got the skills. I'm not sure how to square him with Sloan, unless it's a frame up. Which could be. Eleanor would certainly be capable of doctoring that kind if information if she was using her company for skullduggery. But it would be a solid swerve considering his counterpart from the comics is principally a villain, while still not being out of the wheelhouse considering Swordsman's later hero turn. And he has the skills.
In this reading Eleanor is the villain. Which makes her phone call as sinister as it looked. And means there is a higher up bad guy in place to be "Uncle." Fisk is certainly on the table. But Kate's dad remains a possibility as well. What if his death was faked? Could they still be in on some scheme together? That would tie Maya and Kate in an interesting and complex way as well, which might be meaty.
Now the rolex is interesting. It's clearly tied to Laura. Could she have been in the business before cashing out to be a mom? The episode certainly wants us to think so. Though it hasn't been explicitly said to lead to her yet.
However, Maya has it. The tracksuits broke into the auction looking for it before Kate intervened as "Ronin." I was under the impression that they didn't find it. But Maya has it. Maybe that isn't the swerve it feels like and we're just supposed to presume they found it after all. But what if?
What if she's betraying the Tracksuits and their boss by hiding it from them? What if she already knows Clint was Ronin, and has since before this started? She can copy people from just watching them, she should be able to pick out Clint no matter his outfit once she's seen him fight.
So maybe the Tracksuit's boss (Fisk?) sent them to get the watch. And maybe Maya found it first and kept it to herself. Hoping to use it to take her revenge on Clint. Not by killing him, no. But by making him feel the same pain she has had to feel. By killing his family.
I think it could work. In the comics, Maya switches sides when she realizes that Fisk lied to her about her father's death. He told her Daredevil killed William, but in fact he did it himself. However, in this version Maya SAW Ronin kill her father. Now, it didn't have to Clint. Maybe there is a counterfeit Ronin. But Clint confirmed that Ronin targeted the Tracksuits leadership, and he hasn't acted surprised at Maya's vendetta or at William's death. And he was clearly knowledgeable about the Tracksuit hierarchy in this episode when he talked to Kaji. So if it's a frame job it's a really good one. Still can't rule this out, but for the moment let's presume that Clint did the deed.
So this time instead of Fisk betraying Maya with false information, maybe Maya is betraying her boss by hiding the watch? Which will get her in hot water when her boss realizes she's had it the whole time.
However, Maya has it. The tracksuits broke into the auction looking for it before Kate intervened as "Ronin." I was under the impression that they didn't find it. But Maya has it. Maybe that isn't the swerve it feels like and we're just supposed to presume they found it after all. But what if?
What if she's betraying the Tracksuits and their boss by hiding it from them? What if she already knows Clint was Ronin, and has since before this started? She can copy people from just watching them, she should be able to pick out Clint no matter his outfit once she's seen him fight.
So maybe the Tracksuit's boss (Fisk?) sent them to get the watch. And maybe Maya found it first and kept it to herself. Hoping to use it to take her revenge on Clint. Not by killing him, no. But by making him feel the same pain she has had to feel. By killing his family.
I think it could work. In the comics, Maya switches sides when she realizes that Fisk lied to her about her father's death. He told her Daredevil killed William, but in fact he did it himself. However, in this version Maya SAW Ronin kill her father. Now, it didn't have to Clint. Maybe there is a counterfeit Ronin. But Clint confirmed that Ronin targeted the Tracksuits leadership, and he hasn't acted surprised at Maya's vendetta or at William's death. And he was clearly knowledgeable about the Tracksuit hierarchy in this episode when he talked to Kaji. So if it's a frame job it's a really good one. Still can't rule this out, but for the moment let's presume that Clint did the deed.
So this time instead of Fisk betraying Maya with false information, maybe Maya is betraying her boss by hiding the watch? Which will get her in hot water when her boss realizes she's had it the whole time.
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I pretty much didn't follow a single thing any of you have said.
But I will say that if Laura goes full Velma, I'm all for it.
But I will say that if Laura goes full Velma, I'm all for it.
Great theorizing. All of that makes sense based on what we know so far. I hope you're on the right track with some of this.
Always go full Velma.
Are you saying my was are fat? You're sleeping on the couch tonight.
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