Spoilers Hawkeye -Discussion Thread

[LaxScrutiny]

Episode 1.6 Spoiler:

Spoiler

IMDB lists Brian d'Arcy James/Derek Bishop (Kate's dad) as cast member for episode 6. I kinda suspected since we never saw the body. I think the reason he played dead for so long may turn out to be interesting.

 

[Anwar]

I think this is the first time that "Kingpin" has been spoken in the MCU as an actual alias for Wilson Fisk. The Daredevil series tiptoed around it and found ways to allude to it indirectly, which was odd, because it's a standard epithet for the head of a criminal organization.

The Netflix shows were ashamed they were comic book shows, they tried their best to not use any comic names at all as much as they could. The most comic-booky one was the one they put the least effort into (Iron Fist) which says a lot.

Anyways, does anything thing they'll bother explaining how Fisk got out of prison and returned to power since the last time we saw him in Daredevil? Matt forced him to agree to give up on ever leaving otherwise Vanessa would fall with him.

 

[JD]

Episode 1.6 Spoiler:

Spoiler

IMDB lists Brian d'Arcy James/Derek Bishop (Kate's dad) as cast member for episode 6. I kinda suspected since we never saw the body. I think the reason he played dead for so long may turn out to be interesting.

Spoiler: Same spoiler and it's ties to the comics

According to my research into the comics last week, he was a bad guy too, and I think Kate thought he was dead, only for him to turn up alive later, so that would fit the comics

.

 

[Reverend]

Anyways, does anything thing they'll bother explaining how Fisk got out of prison and returned to power since the last time we saw him in Daredevil? Matt forced him to agree to give up on ever leaving otherwise Vanessa would fall with him.

Probably not. Though all of that took place before the blip, and we have no idea what transpired in the mean time, besides the fact that Fisk lived through it and didn't blip out. For all we know Matt could have been gone this whole time too. Or they're just casting d'Onofrio the same way they cast J.K. Simmons. I suspect we won't have to wait long to find out either way.

 

[Turtletrekker]

If we're supposed to believe that Eleanor contacted the Contessa who then contacted Yelena who then went to New York, then we are also supposed to believe that that pleasant scene we saw at the end of Black Widow took place in Ohio at the end of December.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Probably not. Though all of that took place before the blip, and we have no idea what transpired in the mean time, besides the fact that Fisk lived through it and didn't blip out. For all we know Matt could have been gone this whole time too. Or they're just casting d'Onofrio the same way they cast J.K. Simmons. I suspect we won't have to wait long to find out either way.

I'm willing to believe that Kingpin was able to take full advantage of the Blip to get out and shore up power so that by the time Matt was restored, Fisk was in the position to counter Matt's blackmail.

If we're supposed to believe that Eleanor contacted the Contessa who then contacted Yelena who then went to New York, then we are also supposed to believe that that pleasant scene we saw at the end of Black Widow took place in Ohio at the end of December.

Considering how fucked up weather is these days, I have no issues with that.

 

[Anwar]

Probably not. Though all of that took place before the blip, and we have no idea what transpired in the mean time, besides the fact that Fisk lived through it and didn't blip out. For all we know Matt could have been gone this whole time too. Or they're just casting d'Onofrio the same way they cast J.K. Simmons. I suspect we won't have to wait long to find out either way.

A few possibilities:

1) It's the Jameson thing again, they hired the same actor but this is a different take on him not 100% in line with the Netflix one.

2) Matt got snapped and Fisk wasn't. He took advantage of the general chaos of the Snap to escape and rebuild his power base during the 5 years.

3) The both got snapped, but the Prison was destroyed in the 5 years and Fisk rematerialized outside of it and was able to escape.

4) Vanessa has died permanently, so Fisk no longer gives a **** about anything Matt can do.

 

[Christopher]

If we're supposed to believe that Eleanor contacted the Contessa who then contacted Yelena who then went to New York, then we are also supposed to believe that that pleasant scene we saw at the end of Black Widow took place in Ohio at the end of December.

Considering how fucked up weather is these days, I have no issues with that.

I'm in Ohio, and today's high, ten days before Christmas, was in the low 60s. We used to get heavy snow every winter, often blizzards, but these days we get relatively little snow overall.

Although you'd think that 5 years with half the population would've significantly reduced MCU Earth's carbon footprint and reversed global warming a bit. But maybe not. A year of pandemic shutdowns had no significant impact on the warming rate.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

The Netflix shows were ashamed they were comic book shows, they tried their best to not use any comic names at all as much as they could. The most comic-booky one was the one they put the least effort into (Iron Fist) which says a lot.

Daredevil series having "Daredevil" as his nom de gueurre, along with the costume, was comic-booky enough that I was impressed by well it made comic come to life.
Jessica Jones series was pretty close to the Jessica Jones (2016) comic. Trish as Cat was pretty comic-booky.
Luke Cage series mentioned "Hero for hire" and "Power Man", albeit just once each in casual conversation.
Defenders series had "The Hand" as pretty prominent.
The plots were mostly straight from the comics and wouldn't be seen on a police procedural.

Still, I take your point. The shows didn't go out of their way to show a world where superheroes were a thing, certainly not the way Hawkeye is done.

Anyways, does anything thing they'll bother explaining how Fisk got out of prison and returned to power since the last time we saw him in Daredevil? Matt forced him to agree to give up on ever leaving otherwise Vanessa would fall with him.

I think what is more critical for Matt is Fisk keeping his secret and leaving Karen and Foggy alone. If Fisk just managed a parole (probably with a little influence applied) Matt has to weigh going after Vanessa against starting a new war with Fisk, putting his friends in danger, and having his identity revealed. I think that would be pretty complicated to just drop mention of in Hawkeye or any non-Daredevil show or movie. I would think they'd just avoid the issue unless they have to actually confront it.

ETA: Just read your latest post. I especially like #2. Fisk has to realize, as much as he'd hate to admit it, Matt exposed him and got him convicted, as well as beating the tar out of him twice. Better to not poke the sleeping Devil.

Noticeable in our last episode Clint and Kate seemed to know exactly who that guy in the picture was and what it indicated, so to some extent what happened in Daredevil (Fisk exposed as a dangerous criminal) must have happened.

 

[tomalak301]

Another great episode. I think I already like this series more than Wandavision and I think I will go back to see the two that I didn't see in the near future. The Yelena/Kate scene was fantastic, and I also loved the scene with Clint at the Memorial talking to Natashia. I'm glad I saw Black Widow and got the Yalena introduction because she is a great character. She was better here than in the movie, and she was great in the movie. I agree, it feels like there should be an extra episode, even though we only have one more left. Hope it's a great conclusion to this series.

 

[Jayson1]

You know if they stick the landing in the final episode I think this might be my second favorite Disney MCU show after Wandavision. Also I didn't even much care for the first 2 episodes but maybe I should watch them again. Maybe I was just in the wrong mood at the time. I even like this Echo character better than I thought I would. My theory is Spiderman also shows up for like 10 seconds in the final episode.

 

[Anwar]

Noticeable in our last episode Clint and Kate seemed to know exactly who that guy in the picture was and what it indicated, so to some extent what happened in Daredevil (Fisk exposed as a dangerous criminal) must have happened.

Which means Fisk has done rather well for himself. He was "just" one of NYC's big Gang Bosses in the DD show. Now he's the kind of guy that even a World-Class Avenger is worried about.

 

[StCoop]

Anyone else getting the feeling there's going to be a Season 2? Like with Loki there seems to be a lot to wrap up in 40 minutes; even with some of it being shifted over to the Echo series.

 

[Jayson1]

I think this is the last we will be seeing Clint Barton so I have my doubts on a season 2. But we of course will be seeing most of the characters again IMO. Though I still think we might get a Budapest "What If" story at some point on the cartoon.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

One detail I noticed before that I find odd is the used car lot full of overpriced 70s vehicles just out in the NY snow. Is there some significance to that? Seems an odd touch.

 

[cooleddie74]

One vehicle looked like the Griswold family truckster from National Lampoon's Vacation.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Now that’d be an Easter Egg (or Xmas egg...)!

I guess maybe it’s as simple as the tracksuit mafia driving 70s cars and then having Fat Man Auto Sales to connect it. Living in the rust belt myself it just seemed conspicuous to see such a thing.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I'm going to repeat what I said in the BW thread:

Yelena is my new favorite character, for anything.

But I got to be honest, after that brilliant scene between her and Kate, I found the episode to be a plodding bore punctuated by the too predictable "internet breaking" twist end. Easily the weakest of the series.

 

[Reverend]

3) The both got snapped, but the Prison was destroyed in the 5 years and Fisk rematerialized outside of it and was able to escape.

We know he didn't get snapped because we know he was operating at the same time as Clint was the Ronin.

So it's really just down to "it's a new version of the character played by the same guy" or "the chaos of the snap allowed him to escape and/or clear his name . . . again."

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Noticeable in our last episode Clint and Kate seemed to know exactly who that guy in the picture was and what it indicated, so to some extent what happened in Daredevil (Fisk exposed as a dangerous criminal) must have happened.

I had the opposite impression. Kate seemed to have no clue who he was and Clint seemed to have direct personal experience with him. Obviously he's a dangerous criminal either way, but Kate (who has been obsessed with superhero stuff since 2012 and lives in NYC) having to ask who he is implies that he hasn't been publicly exposed at all. Obviously she could have missed all the news stories, but it seems unlikely to me.