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Haters of Star Trek: Discovery - wtf?

Do you already hate Discovery?

  • Yes

    Votes: 18 9.0%
  • No

    Votes: 183 91.0%

  • Total voters
    201
Er... This metaphor doesn't quite work in my view. Their audience isn't a bunch of children. Star Trek fans come from all walks of life, and a lot of fans had complaints.

Children by action rather than children by age. Endless bitching about TV shows that haven't even aired by with calls to cancel before it's even been cast or shot...yeah, that's basically the definition of childish temper tantrum.

Let's make one thing clear here, too. Braga admitted that TATV was motivated by pure ego on their part.

Okay, and I will as well. I'm not against Discovery at all at this point, but I think you've committed a pretty bad intellectual sin there. You've basically broad-stroked anyone who raised those issues you listed as being a whiny child; as if the collective whole were all on the same unified page, they weren't. Trek has always had those who championed it regardless, those in the middle, and those vocally against just about anything ever done... While also separating yourself from that if you yourself end up having issues with the series. What might seem insignificant to some, might be a deal breaker to others.

The problem with B&B is they came off as militantly against anyone who was a fan of TOS. When I said they called Trek fans 12 year olds, it wasn't with regarding to Trek fans being vocal about stupid bullshit. It was directed at complaints that the show wasn't really living up to it's creative potential, that it seemed to be playing to the lowest common denominator with the decon-gel scenes, the semi-exploitative way that they talked about t'pols "pon-farr episode" ... Which raised eyebrows all over the place. That showed they weren't really interested in trying to do a little research. Watch some of TOS with a pad and paper and take some notes, and go... AH-hah! Here's a story opportunity. Here's where that might have come from... They had no interest in cultivating opportunities and actually using the prequel setting to their advantage.

I mean, to e totally fair, their were people out there, even one of my close friends, who were not going to be happy if Enterprise did not look like it was "Pre Cage" With a Daedalus type ship or something out of the Spaceflight Chronology. ...That was never going to happen. But those people persisted. For people like it, I just looked at the show and shrugged my shoulders, thinking... It's lit and shot, and produced just like Voyager was, and it could be so much bolder than it is, and they're missing golden moments all over the place. That's not me judging it by some lofty standard, that's just looking at what they were saying they wanted to do, and then seeing them just not do anything with it. Prime example, Berman kept saying it's a show about "firsts" right? Well... The first time they meet another alien species? The first time they're going to make contact? ... Archer half-asses a speech, and it has virtually no dramatic fan-fare. This should have been an Apollo-11-esque moment! With a plaque and a prepared statement, and... Something! All of the dramatic and narrative potential was utterly wasted... Alas, what a shame. ... And so that was the general sentiment of fans at the time.

The reason Enterprise is the way it is at times is not just because they were worn out, but because Berman in particular wanted Trek to be his which is fine, fair enough... So he ignored TOS a lot of the time. As Doug Drexler pointed out, the "Akiraprise" stuff is not unfounded. They wanted to use the Akira. Not "use that as inspiration." No. They wanted to dust off the CGI model of the Akira and just use that. For a prequel show. Tell me that's not completely lazy. That should not have even been a discussion...! And thank goodness Mr. Drexler pushed back and actually made something out of the NX-01. I'm not a fan of the NX-01, for a lot of reasons, but I will give credit to Doug for really trying to buff out something that, when you look closely, has a lot of details on it that make it the precursor to what would come later.

Putting all the noise to the side though, I think the one thing that anyone who feels uneasy about this being another prequel needs to strongly consider is... It is now a completely different creative environment from 2001-2005. This is a new team, with some old guard folks who haven't touched Trek in years, with a new idea of what Trek will be going forward. We have no idea what awaits. ...But it will not be the same creative atmosphere of old. For better, or worse.

You seem to think you're refuting my point when you're just proving it.
 
The Last Ship is all kinds of awesome.
See? Someone likes this thing. The same applies to really any TV show that's getting renewed; presumably there are also people who watch - let's say - Blindspot.
Well, CRUSADE was seventeen years ago, so you're probably talking different management, a different generation of viewers, different demographics, etc. Plus, THE LAST SHIP presumably attracts viewers who prefer more "realistic" shows to space operas.
Well, obviously. My point is just stuff succeeds regardless of whether or not you like it. There's dozens of cancelled yet beloved shows - it's essentially Bryan Fuller's entire career as a showrunner and creator.

TNT also seems to stick to its genre shows a little more now - they had the more space-y Falling Skies run for what seemed like forever (and I never warmed to that one, either.)
 
Ascension

Thank you.

And I forgot all about FALLING SKIES as well. There really is too much genre TV to keep track of these days. :)

As for TNT, THE LIBRARIANS actually wrapped up filming its third season on Friday, so it's been thriving there as well. Not that I've been paying close attention to their production schedule or anything.

(Hoping to finish writing the second tie-in book this week . ...)
 
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I don't hate it. I'm looking forward to it. After 11 years of fanfilms of varying quality (usually mediocre to poor) set in the Prime Universe, I can't wait to see what a studio production looks like. I'm just kinda disappointed that it's a prequel.

But it is what it is. Time to embrace it until we see it, and if it sucks, hate on it then, with actual EVIDENCE to support why you hate it.
 
Okay.

Wonder why Firefly gets singled out then as the big example of the show that was unfairly canceled, then?



I can get the point that a TV show isn't going to be given much of a grace period to get its ducks in line, but I'm a little puzzled how TNG would be able to get away with it back in the day, since there would've been other shows competing for audiences.

TNG was a special case for two reasons. First, there weren't any other sci-fi shows on at the time, so it didn't have the same kind of competition it would have today. And second, it was in first run syndication, which was, while not exactly new in 1987, was still uncommon.
 
TNG was a special case for two reasons. First, there weren't any other sci-fi shows on at the time, so it didn't have the same kind of competition it would have today. And second, it was in first run syndication, which was, while not exactly new in 1987, was still uncommon.
I still can't believe that TNG could get away with such an awful first season regardless of the competition or lack thereof. There was some room for improvement!
 
I still can't believe that TNG could get away with such an awful first season regardless of the competition or lack thereof. There was some room for improvement!
Well, I think much of that could be blamed on Roddenberry's trying to control the show while battling failing health, and not stopping his lawyer from writing episodes himself (which wasn't his job). Anyway, I don't think the first season was all that bad. It beat that insipid Xindi season on ENTERPRISE by several thousand light years, and is certainly better than anything on TV today.

And now to answer the thread question, no, I don't hate DISCOVERY. How can I? I haven't seen it yet. I hope it isn't in the vein of shows over the past decade, but wiether it is or isn't, I plan to at least check it out because it's both sci-fi AND Star Trek related. Two excellent endorsements right there.
 
Well, I think much of that could be blamed on Roddenberry's trying to control the show while battling failing health, and not stopping his lawyer from writing episodes himself (which wasn't his job). Anyway, I don't think the first season was all that bad. It beat that insipid Xindi season on ENTERPRISE by several thousand light years, and is certainly better than anything on TV today.

And now to answer the thread question, no, I don't hate DISCOVERY. How can I? I haven't seen it yet. I hope it isn't in the vein of shows over the past decade, but wiether it is or isn't, I plan to at least check it out because it's both sci-fi AND Star Trek related. Two excellent endorsements right there.

I think we're all eager to have a look at it.
 
TNG was a special case for two reasons. First, there weren't any other sci-fi shows on at the time, so it didn't have the same kind of competition it would have today. And second, it was in first run syndication, which was, while not exactly new in 1987, was still uncommon.

Three reasons: It also had "Star Trek" in the title. If it had been called Space Patrol, people wouldn't have cared, they wouldn't have sought it out to watch it.
 
Three reasons: It also had "Star Trek" in the title. If it had been called Space Patrol, people wouldn't have cared, they wouldn't have sought it out to watch it.

I used to joke that if MERCY POINT had been called STAR TREK: MERCY POINT it would have run for years . ... :)

But that was years ago, in another time.
 
Children by action rather than children by age. Endless bitching about TV shows that haven't even aired by with calls to cancel before it's even been cast or shot...yeah, that's basically the definition of childish temper tantrum.

My point was that what you're making sound like a considerable size of people is probably close to a petri dish sampling.

You seem to think you're refuting my point when you're just proving it.

My aim was neither. Aside of disagreeing with your initial point, the rest of my response is more about emphasizing the subtleties of things.

"The details are everything." :)


On the subject of cancelled TV shows, going back to Firefly, much like Crusade, it too was the subject of some exec meddling. Episodes were shown out of order, and at least two episodes went unaired/unseen until the DVD release. They apparently were quite confused and didn't know how to advertise the thing either.


RE: TNG lasting past season 2 and Star Trek holding on for 18 years. JMS once was told that there was room for only Science Fiction show on television, and that's Star Trek. He was told Babylon 5 would not work out for that reason.
 
The space station looks like a cross. Is that a religious thing?

It was about a medical station in space, so they were probably going for a Red Cross thing.

I don't recall the show being particularly religious. It was basically an attempt to combine a medical drama with space opera, which was not a bad idea even if the execution left something to be desired.

Think the "Sector General" books by James White.
 
To a degree. I mean, I doubt if there are very many viewers who only watch genre shows--Lord knows I don't--but if you're trying to attract sci-fi fans, it's probably easier if you don't have umpteen other shows going after the same audience. And it also helps to stand out from all the other kinds of shows on TV.

Back in 1987, TNG stood out from all the cop shows and lawyer shows and medical dramas and sitcoms by being one of few high-profile sci-fi shows on the air. That's no longer the case.

Did I mention the three new time-travel shows debuting this Fall? And that's not even counting returning shows like THE MAGICIANS, TWELVE MONKEYS, GRIMM, SLEEPY HOLLOW, ONCE UPON A TIME, AGENTS OF SHIELD, GOTHAM, TEEN WOLF, VIKINGS, and (ahem) THE LIBRARIANS.

Maybe that's why the new Trek show is being released through online streaming services? To partially avoid all the competition and give it something to stand out from the pack besides the franchise it belongs to?
 
Yes these days there's a lot and has been a lot of sff all crap--V reboot, The event, Caprica, dark matters, the expanse, killjoys, invasion, breaking gravity, falling skies, star gate Atlantis, star gate universe, fringe, x files mini series.
 
Do I hate it? No - it's impossible to hate something that hasn't even started filming.
Do I have a great deal of scepticism about it? Yes. I hate the ship design. It looks like a crappy kitbash of a starship and something else, a problem which the McQuarrie design had. Also, I'm not a fan of the setting at all. I really don't think another prequel is a good idea, or a good entry point for new fans, so I just have this nasty feeling that they're going to say it's set in the Prime universe but then ignore a lot of what has gone before. Hopefully I'm wrong.
 
Do I hate it? No - it's impossible to hate something that hasn't even started filming.
Do I have a great deal of scepticism about it? Yes. I hate the ship design. It looks like a crappy kitbash of a starship and something else, a problem which the McQuarrie design had. Also, I'm not a fan of the setting at all. I really don't think another prequel is a good idea, or a good entry point for new fans, so I just have this nasty feeling that they're going to say it's set in the Prime universe but then ignore a lot of what has gone before. Hopefully I'm wrong.
This is a good summary for how I feel too. I don't "hate" it (that requires an emotional investment that I'm not willing to give it). I'm just skeptical of it and leery of another prequel.
 
Calm down, Braga admitted they screwed up with the cloaking device and issued an apology to fandom. Let it go.

Not to be pissy or anything, but there's no need to be condescending ("let it go") -- Einstein was replying to a specific point made by someone who was claiming that the main plot thrust of "Balance of Terror" was a "throwaway line."
 
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