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Has TrekLit retconned any REALLY bad canon?

It wasn't a single very hard tightrope to walk, it was 4-5 very hard tightropes that we had to jump from one to the other, while balancing a Horta on a spinning plate while we rode a cloaked Bajoran unicycle. And that analogy still would probably be easier to do than to make the nightmare of TATV make sense.

And it was appreciated. At least by me. I was one of those Enterprise fans who couldn't stand the 'finale' (which turned out to be a really bad Next Generation episode that made little to no sense). It seriously made me sick to my stomach. It was like all the progress made in Seasons 3 & 4 were for nothing. And your book changed all that. Just 2 days ago I did one of those 'pick your top 5' thingys on Facebook, and I picked "The Good That Men Do" as one of my 5 favorite Trek books; not because it was better than your usual work, but because it saved the ending of my 2nd favorite Trek. Big Thanks! :techman: [The Worlds of DS9 that you contributed to also made my top 5].
 
Trent, there is no history from that period to retcon for a conspiracy theory for a canon point of view. We know nothing about that period so while it is conceivable that every senior member of the Enterprise senior staff were stuck at their ranks for ten years (since the maiden voyage) it is not plausible. What makes sense is that history was rewritten after the Coalition-Romulan war in order to protect the lives of those involved in said conspiracy. The holoprogram was probably written nearly two hundred years after the event, since holotechnology was only introduced canonically in 2364. Therefore any historical inaccuracies would be due to whoever doctored historical records at the time, in this case S31 would be my prime suspect.
 
I believe Trent's point is that instead of "These Are The Voyages" asking us to swallow the fact that the ENT crew was not promoted in six years, we now have The Good That Men Do asking us to swallow that every single record from 2155 to 2161 was altered to make it look like no one was promoted for six years and that Trip was still alive the entire time. One of them is stupid but simple, while one of them is implausibly complicated.
 
I believe Trent's point is that instead of "These Are The Voyages" asking us to swallow the fact that the ENT crew was not promoted in six years, we now have The Good That Men Do asking us to swallow that every single record from 2155 to 2161 was altered to make it look like no one was promoted for six years and that Trip was still alive the entire time. One of them is stupid but simple, while one of them is implausibly complicated.
Life is complicated, and while I accept the notion of the implausibility of the conspiracy, there is no one alive in the 2360s to contradict it. History is written by the victors and a lot can happen in two hundred years. Maybe the conspiracy was not as all-encompassing as we saw, but the author of the holoprogram was a hack historian, taking bits and pieces to make a relatively plausible historical approach. Think of the TATV program as a 24th century Da Vinci Code.
 
If the holoprogram was written by a hack, then surely that would defeat the point of Riker's using it. That program has to represent history as it was understood in the 24th century entirely accurately.
 
Andy i appreciate the efforts you and Micheal used in the Good That Men Do. I was really glad when the news originally posted here about the novel fixing the mess of the tv finale.And bringing back Trip alive in your book was really great:techman: news for Enterprise fans.
 
I believe Trent's point is that instead of "These Are The Voyages" asking us to swallow the fact that the ENT crew was not promoted in six years, we now have The Good That Men Do asking us to swallow that every single record from 2155 to 2161 was altered to make it look like no one was promoted for six years and that Trip was still alive the entire time. One of them is stupid but simple, while one of them is implausibly complicated.

Yes, thank you; I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the scope at which this conspiracy would need to operate, and as such a hard time framing my discussions of it. (And of course, it would have to extend beyond 2161: if everybody from one day to the next gets kicked up a rank grade or two, it's too obvious.) Do I roll my eyes at the idea that none of the senior staff got promoted, killed or transfered off the ship in the space of six years? Yes. But there's precedent in the other series, and ultimately it's a simple sin of omission. The implausibility of there being no promotions is dwarfed by the incomprehensibility of the conspiracy required to rewrite six years of history to make one person seem alive and active when believed dead (though actually alive but elsewhere), now extended to his crewmates' ranks and--what else? There's leeway in terms of personality since that's something that we need to be reconstructed from records and memoirs, but there still can't be radical changes to the characters without them falling under the conspiracy's purview. This is treating a papercut by amputating the hand.

Life is complicated, and while I accept the notion of the implausibility of the conspiracy, there is no one alive in the 2360s to contradict it. History is written by the victors and a lot can happen in two hundred years.

Which actually raises a good point: when was history changed, and why? Ideally, it would have to be outside or at the end of living memory, otherwise there is too great a risk that someone who knew Tucker, or knew the person or persons who replaced him as chief engineer during those six years, or were involved in with crewmembers who had their rank changed, or any of the other incalculable contacts on and off a highly-documented and historically pre-eminent ship of just under a hundred people, discovering the change. And if Archer's lifespan is any indication, that's almost a century's worth of time. But even setting aside living memory, I can't believe such major astropolitical events as the founding of the Coalition and the Romulan War would not draw the attention of historians and political scientists (and if the academia of 22nd century is anything like our modern institutions, a few years if not less after they occured). One engineer in the fleet probably won't be expected to draw much attention by himself, but Archer and the Enterprise played a major role in founding the alliance, and as the most advanced ship in Earth's fleet at the beginning of the war (after the loss of the Columbia), will also be expected to be a spearhead during at least the early years of the conflict (being invited to speak at the founding of the Federation also indicates that Archer was still a prominent figure by 2161 - and don't tell me that's the wrong speech, because I refuse to believe that anyone, even 31, could fuck with the records of something that would have been as massively documented and received as much media coverage as that), so Tucker can be expected to have been noted, or not noted after 2155, even if only tangentially--and of course who was on Archer's crew and what their ranks were, ditto. This is the kind of stuff historical enthusiasts, let alone professionals, just love. That means that in addition to the plethora of primary sources that would have to be modified, deleted and created to perpetrate this conspiracy, all secondary writings on and about these events would have to likewise be modified, which raises the new challenge of how to effectuate such a change without the people actually working on these subjects noticing that their data--and possibly the works they have, themselves, previously published--had been modified. And the founding of a government and the major conflict related to it seems like a subject unlikely to fall out of favour and study, particularly in a civilization the size of the Federation which must have a spawling academy numbering in the millions across all member worlds. So even waiting after all those involved were dead before making the change had it's challenges, but it also raises the question of why one would make such a change at such a late date. I found the reasons for faking Tucker's death in TGTMD, in the immediacy of events, thoroughly unconvincing; I can't imagine why anybody would go through all that effort to change the date of events merely to make it harder to discover that his death was faked (which, in and of itself, is preposterous: the massive historical contradictions that arise from such sweeping change makes it more likely, not less, that someone will take interest), a century or more after the events. What's being protected when all those involved have died? Maybe there's something still to come in the novel line, but at the moment there's no call for it at all.

Man, I have a headache.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
 
I always assumed that Trip's fake death being six years earlier than it was in the history books was a sign that he was going to rejoin the crew fairly quickly, and that it was only six years later when something happened that required him to go to ground more permanently. Since they'd already faked his death once, they just reused the old one.
 
Trent -

If Mike was active on the boards, he could give you seven pages of explanations as to the hows and whys of the reasoning behind the six-year explanation, citing page numbers and chapter and verse and timecodes and stardates and etc. That was his bailiwick. My mind is too full of other stuff to keep track of all of those items two years-plus after writing the book, sorry to admit. It was worked out at the time, in laborious detail, and approved by Pocket and Paramount.

However, the explanation of Archer's speech vis-a-vis the Coalition Compact vs the Founding of the Federation was designed to help bridge the whole "six year" question. We know now that Archer spoke at both events, and Mike found loopholes that allowed this version to be entirely plausible.

And really, as others have said, history is written by others. When we cannot even keep our history straight over whether our last President stole an election, whether the one before him had oral sex in office, what world leaders have sold which weapons to their enemies, and who assassinated Kennedy, what makes you so certain that by the time holoprogramming is perfected, historians will be any better? Or that secret agendas and backstage dealings won't have perverted history even more?

And yes, to my knowledge, there is a LOT more to the story and the hows and whys of all the historical tampering, that will be revealed in future books. Can't tell you what they are, as (a) I'm not co-writing the next one and (b) that would be spoiling it.
 
Hopefully whatever it is will be interesting for them that read it, but I'll not be counted amongst their number; the post-series ENT books lost me as a reader after Kobayashi Maru, and the fact that I couldn't bring myself to believe in the books was no small factor in that decision (although in that regard it wasn't just the Byzantine schemes and conspiracies, but the rocambolesque misadventures of Secret Agent 003 as well). Call me demanding, but I think a book's scenario and plot ought to make sense within the book itself, not by reference to some undisclosed future novel an indeterminate number of years hence; the information should have been in the book itself. That was the problem with TATV: it didn't stand on its own, needed outside explanation, and in that respect I felt TGTMD didn't fix but rather exacerbated the credibility gap.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
 
Trent, I respect your opinion, but I needed to read the book twice before I fully grasped the intricacies of the conspiracy plot. I whizzed through it the first time because I was enjoying it so much. Might I suggest that you give the book a second attempt, with all the new info you have gleaned from others here on the board, and see what you make of it?
 
I have way too much reading on my plate, both for research and a backlog of pleasure books I want to read, to be rereading anything, let alone a book I didn't enjoy the first time through. I've posted my objections to the logistics of this conspiracy a number of times and will probably do so in the future; if there's anything I've missed, I trust that I will be corrected. :)

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
 
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I would have explained TATV away as simply a fictionalized version of the real events, as suggested upthread. Take Blackhawk Down for example. There are probably real military reports on what happened but if I had to guess I would guess that they are a) boring and b) classified. So Mark Bowden interviews as many of the soldiers and civilians as he can to put together a comprehensive picture of what happened. Despite this, some inaccuracies creep in because no one has the whole picture of what happened that day. Some details are intentionally left out; for example Navy SEALS were there but there is absolutely no description of who they were or what they did because they weren't willing to talk about it. And then, years after the fact, Ridley Scott gets it into his head to turn this 500+ page account into a Hollywood action blockbuster. Characters get dropped or combined and a battle that took place over an entire day and night gets cut down to 144 minutes. Facts are distorted to ramp up the tension, such as when the helicopters make their impressive strafing run. In actual fact, they were strafing constantly throughout the whole battle. Decisions that went up and down an entire huge chain of command stretching from Somalia to Washington DC get compressed down to one harried colonel barking orders. Et cetera.

And so with TATV. Perhaps events did happen roughly the same way. Shran got involved with some smugglers or pirates or whatever they were and came to Archer for help. A member or members of the engineering crew died in an explosion or coolant leak or fire or etc. Archer spent a long time putting his speech together. And so on. But for the "Ridley Scott" version of these events, the junior engineers who died in a routine coolant leak accident become the senior engineer bravely sacrificing himself. The drunken fistfight between Trip and Archer that resulted from the debate over whether T'Pol is hotter than Hoshi turns into Trip coldcocking Archer to save him from the space pirates. And so on. Basically I would have emphasised that while these events did happen, they didn't all happen at once but rather over a period of several weeks/months and was nowhere near as dramatic as the Holonovel version. And Trip didn't die or even get hurt, he just ended up being the character that makes the brave sacrifice in the Holonovel.

But why would Riker choose a historically inaccurate representation? First, because the actual historical version would take weeks to play out and would be boring as hell. Second, because the dramatized version is more meaningful. I mean, I can read the Congressional Medal of Honor citations for Shughart and Gordon and get a very dry description of their heroism but seeing them mixing it up in the Ridley Scott version is a lot more moving.

Having said that, I don't envy the task Andy and Mike faced in writing their version of these events under the mandate they were given from Paramount/Pocket. It's like being asked to clean up a steaming pile of radioactive Godzilla turds. No matter how big of a shovel you're given, there's just no good way to clean it up.
 
I like that, overall. My only real issue would be that Trip would probably be to important of a historical figure to be able to get saying that he died when it wasn't really him.
 
TATV was a Valentine to the fans how dare any of you say otherwise.
I hope that's sarcasm, it was a valentine massacre if you're being serious - and if you're not

I never saw it. Is it really as bad as they say?
On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the worst thing ever shown on television and 10 being mind-blowingly good television, TATV was a -100, give or take.
 
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