Harry Kim: a defense

[The Grim Ghost]

Young Ensign Kim gets a lot of flak for being a fairly dull character. Did anybody else kind of like the guy? I see him as the Geordi of Voyager. A really nice guy who happens to be a bit dull and unlucky in love. We all know that there are many people like this in real life, why can't there be a person like this on a starship?

As an aside, on the whole "should Kes or Kim be the one to go" debate before 7 came on...why didn't they go for the most obvious choice: Neelix. I liked him okay in some of the later episodes when they toned him down a bit, but he was horrible for the first few seasons. Just looking at him was irritating.

 

[2 of 10]

I liked Harry, Janeway considered him capable enought to trust him with giving him command on the night shift. I did like his musical piece he called "Echos of the Void"

He also saved Voyager, after he destroyed it. In "Timeless" he was the one that brought Voyager back from it's icy grave, the one that he put it in.

All in all I like his character, not everyone is cool, calm, collected, good with the ladies...ect. Just look at Barclay, another totally cool cat, who had some problems, no one walks on water anymore...

 

[Lucy of Nine]

I always liked Harry, never had a problem with him. Not everyone could be the exciting or passionate or mysterious character, someone had to be 'joe everyman'... Harry is underated!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Here is my problem.

Harry Kim was born in 2349.
Wesley Crusher was born in 2349.

Their time at the academy seemed to overlap.

Wes might have been a dopey kid when he started but he got pelted by poop for seven years until he seemed to be a decent human being and then merely transubstuated into a god around about the same time as Kim was passing his exams and asking for his first assignment professing that he is young and green and naive and inexperienced and people should take it easy on him because he's the new kid on the block...

Worf was 24 when assumed the security chief position on the flagship but Kim was still apologising for being a child at 24 and askiing for a cuddles to ease his concerns that he'll always be a tiny child disrespected for his optimism..

At 27, when Riker was XO on the flagship turning down his own command over and over again because he's just so excellent, Kim, still a lowly Ensign has his adventure on the Nightingale and decides that there's plenty of time to grow up and there's no reason to take his career seriously so it doesn't matter how bad he screws up when people are depending on him in a crisis situation, because one day he will be a grown up, so he'll leave it till then to wallow in his murk of inadequacy because he's still just a kid and he should enjoy his extended irresponsible childhood (The episode Nightingale had the morality of a serial puppy rapist. Start to end it's a clusterf*&k of reasons why Kim is a whiny idiot.).

My problem is Voyagers reset button.

It stunted Kims development at every quarter, and the same thing happens to him as all the Lassies, and any other child star once they stop being cute, like that poor poor Emmanuel Lewis.

 

[cyph]

Yeah, I saw harry like Geordi as well. Maybe I'm biased being asian-american, but I always rooted for his character.

 

[Loupjo]

In itself I have no problems with the Harry Kim character. However it would have been nice if the writers/producers had seen fit to give him some more character development. It's fine to have someone on board who is not a super heroe and who might not actually be 'the best and brightest' but who is just your average starfleet officer. However a character still needs some development and over the course of seven years that were spent on the other side of the galaxy away from everyone you would expect a person to grow, to develop, to change. Especially someone as young as Harry Kim. So while I don't mind Harry at all I did feel the producers didn't really do him justice. Right now I don't care for him.

It's been a few years since I have seen Voyager and from most of the crew I remember story arcs, personal things that happened to them etc. Of Harry Kim I remember practically nothing except that he was close with Paris and missed his parents. It's a shame because there was more potential there to develop him into a full character instead of just a glorified extra as he now seemed to be.

I preferred Kes but at the same time I would not have wanted to them to fire Kim for Kes. Kim worked better as a member of the ensemble anyway as he was a starfleet officer and had a defined position on the ship opposite to Kes and Neelix.

 

[Trek Survivor]

Garrett Wang displayed little to no acting talent, and it didn't help that the character was written as dull anyway. I liked the idea of Harry Kim - he had a real chance to grow and develop over seven years.

But didn't.

 

[TheGodBen]

I liked Kim in the beginning, but he really was just a cipher by the end of the show, he didn't seem to develop as a character at all. I'm no fan of Wesley, but he managed to evolve over the course of TNG, and so did Bashir on DS9. Kim just stood there on the back of the set playing a 22 year old for 7 years.

 

[propita]

In a way, Harry's character is an interesting comment on how not everyone actually learns and grows from situations. Though I believe that Harry did ("The Chute," "Timeless," "The Void," "Resolutions"--standing up to Tuvok is not what Harry would've done much earlier).

I blame the writers, Paramount, whoever was in charge of disrupting the show with their idiotic insistences that Star Trek attract the entire general public. Shoot, Star Wars was unquestionably a hit, but there are many who seriously cannot stand it. So why should Star Trek have to top that, on a week-to-week basis?

Here's hoping that the new movie does serve as a re-imaging, taking the basic premise into a different direction.

Sorry, got OT there.

 

[Red Ranger]

People,

Well, I blame the writers more than the actor. I also always liked Harry Kim, but I do think there were other wasted opportunities for the character. I think if he developed into the character we saw in Timeless, a bit of a reckless risk-taker, Harry would've been a better character.

The big silliness with Harry is Janeway's failure to promote him. Sure, giving him command of the night shift was nice, but she should have at least promoted him to lieutenant, junior grade. That would've reflected the fact that he had taken on greater responsibility and was being rewarded for it. Yes, she couldn't promote everyone, but a few select promotions would have shown Janeway rewarded accomplishment.

Now, I'm going to make a charge of stereotyping in Harry's case. With the exception of Sulu, ST suffers from characterizing Asians as timid and brainy -- look at Hoshi Sato from ENT. I would've made Harry, over the years, more of a wise-ass to the point of even playing practical jokes on Tom, which would've prompted Voyager's happy-go-lucky helmsman to say, "Hey, jokes are my department, Harry!"

Another missed opportunity was in the ep where the Klingons come on board. I would've had Harry embrace the big Klingon babe who set her sights on him for being aggressive. Sure, she probably could've broken him in half, but after years on the ship, i would've jumped at the chance for wild, crazy sex -- guess I'm projecting!

Yes, some missed opportunities for growth with Harry's character.

Red Ranger

 

[Spock-2012]

Harry Kim was a great guy. I think he really, REALLY needed to be promoted, though...ensign for seven years?? After everything that happened, I mean, come on...it's just not right.

On another front, Harry went through probably the most out of everyone. He died at least twice, almost died a whole bunch, was captured by people who knows how many times, helped save Voyager from it's deep-freeze, and still stood strong. Whoever says Harry Kim is weak, pathetic or useless really got it wrong. To stand up to all of that is saying something big.

And agreed, getting rid of Neelix would have made me super happy. Getting rid of Harry or Kes is not an option, but then they DID go and get rid of Kes...at least they kept Harry.

But seriously, he's a great character. I always found him as a personal favourite, character development or not. Though in my opinion, he did develop a little.

 

[Lynx]

Young Ensign Kim gets a lot of flak for being a fairly dull character. Did anybody else kind of like the guy? I see him as the Geordi of Voyager. A really nice guy who happens to be a bit dull and unlucky in love. We all know that there are many people like this in real life, why can't there be a person like this on a starship?

As an aside, on the whole "should Kes or Kim be the one to go" debate before 7 came on...why didn't they go for the most obvious choice: Neelix. I liked him okay in some of the later episodes when they toned him down a bit, but he was horrible for the first few seasons. Just looking at him was irritating.

You have some points here.

As I see it, Kim was the weakest of the Voyager characters. But that doesn't mean that I find him a bad character. I liked him in a way, he was likeable.

The point with Kim was that he's background story was so bland and without real adventures compared to the others that he actually did stick out! He was the traditional, typical Starfleet character.

He was a bit over-looked in the series though, compared to the Voyager books where he's actually more involved in adventures and important actions.

As for your comments about Neelix being the one who should have been sacked, well areound the time for the "changes", Neelix was the least popular character. There were a lot of negative comments about him on many forums.

My opinion in that case is that no one should have been kicked out. I'm a fan of Kes but I happen to like Neelix and Kim too.

 

[stj]

I'm not much for backstage gossip (mainly because I don't seem to find it very often!) but from all reports Harry's backwardness with the ladies is all acting. I suspect that claims of bad acting reflect a distaste for the character or for Garret Wang personally.

That said, how ever could the character be dull? Kim wasn't center stage long enough to get dull. Are there even seven episodes about Kim?

 

[scottydog]

Maybe there has to be one dull wooden character in every trek series. TNG had Riker. DS9 had Jadzia. And VOY had Kim. None of these characters are bad characters or bad people; they just lack pizzaz. And sometimes that kind of calmness is needed if there are strong personalities surrounding them (e.g., Riker had Picard, Jadzia had Kira, and Kim had Paris).

 

[TheWabbit]

I like Kim. Seriously he was the only character to fall in love with a hologram, that had an emotional attachment to them. Kim also was good with the claranet.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

I don't dislike Harry. It's just, like everyone's said, the reset button hurt him more than anyone else on that ship - he came to the ship the fresh faced green Ensign, just out of the Academy on his first assignment, so if that's the state he returns to when that button gets hit, we're not going to get much variation in him or his personality. So he ALWAYS got the role of being the naive one among the crew.

 

[ZERO_of_ZERO]

^ Yes Harry was OK and sometimes amusing in his naivety.

Not really annoying at all - unlike Tom 'bleedin' Paris.

 

[Jean-Luc Picard]

For me, Harry was a bland character whose lines were delivered in such a cheesy way that it was hard to appreciate him.

 

[OldManDax]

Wow. I was JUST thinking about this topic about two hours ago, and saying to myself that Harry is not the worse character in the world, just not one that easily inspires, interest and/or enthusiasm. And yes, Garrett Wang was NOT the best actor in the world - like Terry Farrell on DS9, he wasn't great at strong or complex emotions. I remember his speech to Janeway in that ep. where he defies her orders on the bridge (can't remember the name), and then complains about not being promoted - completely unrealistic. That said, I think "Timeless" is one of VOY's best episodes ever, and I think I like it about as much, or maybe even more, than "The Visitor" on DS9.

Ironic, aint it?