Harlan Ellison: Star Trek Was Just "A Cop Show"

[cooleddie74]

Ellison was probably one of Snyder's all-time favorite guests based on their banter and the fact that he appeared so often over the years on both his NBC and CBS shows. Harlan was a guaranteed interesting guest who'd say entertaining things and at the end of the day that's part of the reason why Tom wanted him on so often. He drew eyeballs.

 

[Commishsleer]

The comparison has merit. In fact, it's pretty obvious that TOS follows familiar formulas of its time. Harlan calling it is not visionary, and it seems mainly that old Cordwainer had sour grapes about the sanctity of his holy creations being violated.

Ellison was an artist and if I was an artist I'd probably be pretty upset with someone "destroying" my work.

However in the end Ellison was working for GR and GR was responsible to the network for the show and the characters and how he wanted the show to be perceived and getting sripts out there in weekly intervals.

I read that Ellison stayed on set and did a lot of rewrites for COTEOF and maybe he got the impression that since he had put so much work in in rewrites that they would go with his version.

I don't know what Ellison saw in B5 though which I think was OK but far from visionary.

 

[Thanos007]

I don't know what Ellison saw in B5 though which I think was OK but far from visionary.

But it was. Maybe not the story specifically but it was "peak TV!" over a decade before long form or serialized story telling became the norm. It was to last five years, no longer, to tell one story. The characters grew and evolved. Londo and G'Kar were simply amazing.

 

[Vger23]

Ellison was a dolt.

 

[JRoss]

Ellison was an artist and if I was an artist I'd probably be pretty upset with someone "destroying" my work.

However in the end Ellison was working for GR and GR was responsible to the network for the show and the characters and how he wanted the show to be perceived and getting sripts out there in weekly intervals.

I read that Ellison stayed on set and did a lot of rewrites for COTEOF and maybe he got the impression that since he had put so much work in in rewrites that they would go with his version.

I don't know what Ellison saw in B5 though which I think was OK but far from visionary.

See, that's my issue. Harlan was, by all reports (I never met him) the best friend that you'd ever have. Well, except to Connie Francis. Anyway, he was working for someone else. I make my living as a freelance writer, and while clients can be ANNOYING*, in the end, they're paying you for their own stuff. Harlan was a TV veteran by this point and should have known this. He wasn't, at this point, done paying dues. I suspect that none of us ever truly are.

As far as B5 goes, dude, you've just got to get past the first season and it picks up like crazy. First good episode is number 13 of season 1.


*Talk to me about the one who told me last Friday that the order they'd given me was a mistake and that I I was only supposed to do 10 items, not 24, after I'd taken 8 days to do all 24 (basically meant that today I got to invoice them for half a day's work out of an entire week).

 

[cooleddie74]

If he was a dolt he was a cunning and courageous one.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

First good episode is number 13 of season 1.

Nah, it was season 1 episode 6 "Mind War."

 

[Maurice]

Ellison was a dolt.

That word does not mean what you think it means.

Ellison was a grade A certified asshole in many circumstances, but stupid or idiotic he was not.

 

[JRoss]

Nah, it was season 1 episode 6 "Mind War."

Oh, yeah, Jason Ironheart! I forgot about that one. First appearance of Bester. Fun fact, this was the last episode that I watched during the original broadcast, when my folks decided that we were just a Star Trek family (they didn't like the special effects, I guess).

 

[Vger23]

That word does not mean what you think it means.

Ellison was a grade A certified asshole in many circumstances, but stupid or idiotic he was not.

I was just being silly. And I don't get to use the work "dolt" enough. It was a stretch, but it felt good.

 

[GNDN18]

 

[Vger23]

View attachment 8112
View attachment 8111

This proves my point beyond any shadow of a doubt.

 

[cooleddie74]

I like Spock's wristwatch. Or TOS-era wrist communicator. Either way, CANON VIOLATION!!1!!11!

 

[GNDN18]

I like Spock's wristwatch. Or TOS-era wrist communicator. Either way, CANON VIOLATION!!1!!11!

Pockets. Backpacks. Wrist chronos. So many canon violations. Most of them startlingly sensible.

ETA:

Spoiler: One more thing….

 

[cooleddie74]

Belts that generated personal force fields around your body so you didn't need to wear spacesuits.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I like Spock's wristwatch. Or TOS-era wrist communicator. Either way, CANON VIOLATION!!1!!11!

A canon violation?! That sounds like a job for the Special Consistency Unit of the Canon Police.

 

[cooleddie74]

We need some real canon. I propose adopting the M777 howitzer. 155mm of raw, steel-shredding power raining destruction down on the enemy from more than 24 kilometers and much farther than that with special ammo.

If you want to violate that cannon you need to bring a better game than Romulans having cloaking technology before they were allegedly supposed to. Send that Nerdrage downrange.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

I'm sure more than a few of you are familiar with the famous episode of Tom Synder's Tomorrow that was taped in or around February of 1976 and featured DeForest Kelley, James Doohan, Walter Koenig and Harlan Ellison discussing the cultural phenomenon of TOS when the series was becoming a global sensation in syndicated reruns. ...

Thank you for that clip. After all these years it is the first time I have ever seen Harlan laugh or anywhere near approaching good humor. In interviews, columns and convention appearances he always came off as hostile. I still think he was a self-absorbed ass who possessed more storytelling ability then any one individual should have been allowed to have. This clip was very humanizing. Again, thank you.

 

[cooleddie74]

You're welcome! I like Harlan but yeah, his personality was an acquired taste to say the least.

 

[somebuddyX]

I think he nailed it. Remember watching all those cop shows where one or two of the leads fell into a time portal, messed up history and had to let the love interest die so the future would remain intact. That happened every other week on Dragnet.