I've watched two amazing episodes from season 4 now, The Visitor and Hard Time. So many times Star Trek tackles serious topics but it comes off as cheesy and cliche, but Hard Time just nails it with excellent writing and an incredibly restrained and nuanced performance by Colm Meaney, plus some excellent support from Siddig, Chao, and Brooks. It's classic both as sci fi and pure drama. It tackles several themes expertly and takes the show to the next level. I'm not going to recap the episode (there are a couple of other threads here that will capably review it when they get to season 4), I just thought it was outstanding.
Hard Time
- Thread starter Dobian
- Start date
Bashir's words at the end always give me chills. We're human, we're imperfect and the only thin that separate us from humble animals is the way we think and feel! It's sad wen you see that today there's a great amount off people who doesn't pay much attention to those things....
There's one thing that has always bothered me about this episode. After a while the people of Agratha would know that the jail sentence was fake and the simulation would have much less impact on them. I mean if you know (from word of mouth) that at the end of the time you won't have aged at all and that everything around you is simulated, it won't have the same impact as it did on Miles for example who felt guilty for killing his cellmate and traumatized for the way the prison guards treated him. In fact if you know that it's simulated then you could just lay still there and wait till the program decides that you've died of starvation...
Except that they don't just seem to wake up with a memory that they were in prison for twenty years, hence a false memory, they seem to live every minute of the experience in real time, including everything they say, do, and experience. So for them, it really is twenty years that passed even though physically it's been less than a day. O'Brien obviously knew what the sentence was before they did it to him, yet once it began and he was thrown into that simulated prison, it became real to him and he completely forgot that it was just some simulation. Twenty years is twenty years, even if you know that when it's done you won't have aged.
This would definitely be a huge threat to first time offenders, but a very small one to career criminals.
I think it's possible that O'Brien may have gotten some special dispensation, i.e. a watered-down version of the sentence due to the fact he wasn't a native and was unlikely to have any interaction with Agrathans in the future. As in our justice systems, the (even virtual) penalties may become much more severe with recurring criminal behavior. I assume 300 years of simulated torture would be more than the average mind can bear. How long can you remember that something isn't real before it becomes real?
It would definitely be extremely unpleasant. But given the choice between being tortured 20 years and waking up 31 with all my friends still remembering me and being tortured 20 years and waking up 51 with all my friends having moved on and many family members dead, I choose the former.
For me, the fake torture would be enough to disincentivise me to commit a crime. But to a psychopath, or somebody who grew up with criminals and no college degrees or legitimate work history, would it really be?
I'll use this example because I just finished rewatching Orange is the New Black. This punishment might stop Piper Chapman from committing crimes, but would it stop Vee?
For me, the fake torture would be enough to disincentivise me to commit a crime. But to a psychopath, or somebody who grew up with criminals and no college degrees or legitimate work history, would it really be?
I'll use this example because I just finished rewatching Orange is the New Black. This punishment might stop Piper Chapman from committing crimes, but would it stop Vee?
As much as I love O'Brien and all the torment the writers put him through, and as good an episode as "Hard Time" is, I would loved to have seen the original concept with Sito Jaxa making a return.
I am curious about that myself.
But it's not like a holodeck. They are implanting memories. If they want you to spend 20 year sunder extreme stress, then they give the memory of that. You don't get a say in the matter.
There was an idea floating around that had Sito Jaxa having been captured and the reports of her death were wrong. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Sito_Jaxa#Background_information
Apparently, thanks maybe to Julian, there were no long term effects, he never alludes to or shows signs of being affected by that in the rest of the series.
What do you mean by that?
If O'Brien lost twenty years of his total lifespan, this would not make him concerned until, oh, about twenty years before his statistically probable age of death. Humans are immortal until they die...
Also, the prison experience would not have "weakened" or "hurt" O'Brien as such - it would merely have made him 20 years older, in the middle of his prime where such things barely show to the surface. More significantly, it would only have made his brain older, as his muscles and bones were not involved much in the pseudo-activity that in fact only lasted for a couple of hours or so. Something like that would simply not be observable to the outside, or even to the inside; Bashir might notice something amiss, but O'Brien himself would not.
Timo Saloniemi
Also, the prison experience would not have "weakened" or "hurt" O'Brien as such - it would merely have made him 20 years older, in the middle of his prime where such things barely show to the surface. More significantly, it would only have made his brain older, as his muscles and bones were not involved much in the pseudo-activity that in fact only lasted for a couple of hours or so. Something like that would simply not be observable to the outside, or even to the inside; Bashir might notice something amiss, but O'Brien himself would not.
Timo Saloniemi
