Hard Star Trek

[Tim Walker]

My opinion is that it may be possible to move Trek marginally towards Quasi-Hard. But as has been commented, the hero ship is actually a vehicle of the imagination. If you take away too much of the science fantasy elements, the product will be Star Trek in name only.

In a few cases some of the magic tech might be replaced with extrapolation of today's tech.

In a few cases magic tech might be replaced by tech based on cutting edge science. An example would be the Andromeda series, where bucky cable/harpoons were used in place of tractor beams.

J.J. replaced the brig force field with a transparent material. This must have been some sort of "smart material" because of the movable hole. (Sun glasses would be a very early version of a smart material). I don't know of any material with a movable hole like that, but it seems somewhat more plausible than a force field.

The point is to minimize the magic tech where it is not really needed for the plot.

 

[Overgeeked]

What you're groping for with harder Trek is the Expanse novel series by James S.A. Corey and a few other science fiction franchises and novels. There's nothing wrong with liking any of those, of course, but it's more than a bit silly to call for such fundamental changes to this franchise that it would no longer be recognizable as Trek.

 

[Tim Walker]

A hybrid might be possible if you assume an alternate time line. Suppose warp drive appeared on schedule, but First Contact came much later. For awhile you may have humans establishing far flung colonies, without apparent aliens around.

Then you get First Contact!

Come to think of it, this is how Jerry Pournelle's space opera played out.

In a general way this may allow some canon history, such as the Eugenics Wars.

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

What you're groping for with harder Trek is the Expanse novel series by James S.A. Corey and a few other science fiction franchises and novels. There's nothing wrong with liking any of those, of course, but it's more than a bit silly to call for such fundamental changes to this franchise that it would no longer be recognizable as Trek.

I think I agree with you, but I still think the ideas coming out of the concept are making for some interesting discussion.

 

[Autistoid]

What you're groping for with harder Trek is the Expanse novel series by James S.A. Corey and a few other science fiction franchises and novels. There's nothing wrong with liking any of those, of course, but it's more than a bit silly to call for such fundamental changes to this franchise that it would no longer be recognizable as Trek.

Considering the expanse is primarily about war I don't see the connection.

This would still be a 5 year mission. They would still have all the star trek races playing there respective roles with slight alteration.

There would still be a federation that has sent out many craft on missions of exploration.

There would still be references to many navy conventions.

There would still be strong elements of Utopian idealism.

Europa Report is the only fiction I could think that comes remotely similar in ideals, and in that universe space is quite barren.

All in all I think it'd be much closer to what gene roddenberry would of wanted if he had the resources in the early sixties.

Exploration/adventure/a positive image of the future, with social examinations of people.

 

[Tim Walker]

I would start with the Kinshaya. If their appearance to akin to griffins, that already makes them semi-mythological. Even if they aren't demon possessed.

 

[Timewalker]

Vulcans were founded by Surak (whatever that means)

As a species? No, Surak was the source of the majority (maybe) of Vulcan's 23rd/24th century philosophy and their social order.

So he might be considered a "founder" or "founding father."

Apparently prior to the mid 22nd century relatively few Vulcan followed Surak's teachings, they were reserved as a people, but didn't strive to be unemotional.

I'm going on memory alone here, but I thought they followed Surak's teachings long before that, but left out some elements they considered unconventional such as the use of mind melds.

Surak's teachings are a lot older than just a century or two, at least according to Diane Duane's novel Spock's World. And it's the impression I got from the TOS episode All Our Yesterdays and the appearance and demeanor of the Vulcans in First Contact.

 

[BillJ]

Surak's teachings are a lot older than just a century or two, at least according to Diane Duane's novel Spock's World. And it's the impression I got from the TOS episode All Our Yesterdays and the appearance and demeanor of the Vulcans in First Contact.

The Enterprise Vulcan trilogy of episodes peg them at about two thousand years.

 

[Tim Walker]

Scroll down to the part about limiting damage, www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/respectscience.php

 

[Autistoid]

Scroll down to the part about limiting damage, www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/respectscience.php

Thats a pretty good read, and ironically does exactly what its best post says not to do.

Don't tell people what they can't do but what they can.

That's actually a relatively good point.

however half of that page is spastic science is right talk.

 

[Autistoid]

As a species? No, Surak was the source of the majority (maybe) of Vulcan's 23rd/24th century philosophy and their social order.

So he might be considered a "founder" or "founding father."

Apparently prior to the mid 22nd century relatively few Vulcan followed Surak's teachings, they were reserved as a people, but didn't strive to be unemotional.

I'm going on memory alone here, but I thought they followed Surak's teachings long before that, but left out some elements they considered unconventional such as the use of mind melds.

Surak's teachings are a lot older than just a century or two, at least according to Diane Duane's novel Spock's World. And it's the impression I got from the TOS episode All Our Yesterdays and the appearance and demeanor of the Vulcans in First Contact.

My point wasn't that they need to literally fit into the old star trek canon.

Regardless there is no attempt here to preserve detail, but instead reboot it.

 

[Autistoid]

Scroll down to the part about limiting damage, www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/respectscience.php

Thats a pretty good read, and ironically does exactly what its best post says not to do.

Don't tell people what they can't do but what they can.

That's actually a relatively good point.

however half of that page is spastic science is right talk.

Alright taking advice from the article I'd like to make a complete list of what you can do.

Advanced A.I.s coupled with other technologies such as neural implants can take the role of godlike aliens that are missing from later series.

Keeping mind outside of federation regulated territory illegal genetic engineering, and other transhumanist technologies are likely to be exploited as a form of black market commodity.

Rotating colonies can be used to take the place of alien worlds. Not just simply giant space ships, but also realms where the production of food is crucial. Massive biomes with complex ecosystems where thousands of people can congregate. Keeping in mind with possibly millions of them in existence the chance that more than a few have some unknown, forbidden or newly evolved form of life is quite high.

Granted the desert model of worlds used in TOS would have to be replaced with a more jungle like adventure.



Rotational forces can be used to make artificial gravity. To call this artificial is slightly misleading as rotational forces are alive in well in nearly all planets. It's a part of wonder of the celestial mechanics.




Using dust shields as saucer sections, and rotating habitats as nacels, one can still preserve the general iconic image of the enterprise.

Bio-engineered viruses can take the place of the anomaly of the week.

The use of shuttle pods is both a necessity and a welcome return to plots similar to Galileo 7.

Genetic engineering a logical result of modern gnome sequencing can introduce a great deal of diversity.

Asteroid mining can greatly expand the potential habital regions of a star system. Keeping in mind there are many large asteroids/moons in the solar system. When you factor in that the idea that officers may be wearing weighted(for radiation shielding) space suits, there is still lots of time to see people walk across barren landscapes.

You can change the time period by many centuries, either by sticking to stardates, or simply have 1996 being a reference to another Era. Instead of 1996 after christ, make it 1996 after the fall of rome etc.

Due to more realistic economic designs of space structures, and federation policies against certain types of experimentation, there is a high degree of unseen discovery and exploration.



EDIT: To be finished after class

 

[Orphalesion]

I'm going on memory alone here, but I thought they followed Surak's teachings long before that, but left out some elements they considered unconventional such as the use of mind melds.

Surak's teachings are a lot older than just a century or two, at least according to Diane Duane's novel Spock's World. And it's the impression I got from the TOS episode All Our Yesterdays and the appearance and demeanor of the Vulcans in First Contact.

My point wasn't that they need to literally fit into the old star trek canon.

Regardless there is no attempt here to preserve detail, but instead reboot it.

That's what I was thinking as well. In the "hard" reboot the Vulcans would be modified strand of humanity, right? Possibly with Surak as the founder of their culture.

 

[JES]

A year or so back, I found a Star Trek/Dune crossover story on fanfiction.net. It's an interesting take on what happens when a starship from the early Federation accidentally gets pulled forward in time to 10,191 A.G. and promptly finds itself in trouble with the Guild, for violating its monopoly on space travel. None of the canon Star Trek characters appear in the story.

I've been trying to find this, with no success. Where is it, what was it called?

It couldn't've been taken down, could it?

 

[Autistoid]

Surak's teachings are a lot older than just a century or two, at least according to Diane Duane's novel Spock's World. And it's the impression I got from the TOS episode All Our Yesterdays and the appearance and demeanor of the Vulcans in First Contact.

My point wasn't that they need to literally fit into the old star trek canon.

Regardless there is no attempt here to preserve detail, but instead reboot it.

That's what I was thinking as well. In the "hard" reboot the Vulcans would be modified strand of humanity, right? Possibly with Surak as the founder of their culture.

Yeah however it would never be directly stated.

There would be an effort to avoid such details as it would confuse the audience.

Also these races would functionally still be other alien races.

When you think about it how do we know that isn't the case within the trekverse in the first place,(semi rhetoric question) We have multiple races clearly able to interbreed, we spend little time characterizes these people as anything less than human etc. Obviously there is the occasional technobabble or other nonsense referring to a unique species, but in reality the idea that they are human descendants fits.

 

[BillJ]

There would be an effort to avoid such details as it would confuse the audience.

Also these races would functionally still be other alien races.

So it's a difference that makes no difference?

 

[Orphalesion]

Yeah however it would never be directly stated.

There would be an effort to avoid such details as it would confuse the audience.

Also these races would functionally still be other alien races.

When you think about it how do we know that isn't the case within the trekverse in the first place,(semi rhetoric question) We have multiple races clearly able to interbreed, we spend little time characterizes these people as anything less than human etc. Obviously there is the occasional technobabble or other nonsense referring to a unique species, but in reality the idea that they are human descendants fits.

But if we keep everything vague we might run into the danger of once again having the same lose rules as the current Trek universe, which would lead to inconsistencies.

I also don't see how the simple explanation of "We originate from Earth, but we have been genetically modified" would be confusing.

 

[fireproof78]

My point wasn't that they need to literally fit into the old star trek canon.

Regardless there is no attempt here to preserve detail, but instead reboot it.

That's what I was thinking as well. In the "hard" reboot the Vulcans would be modified strand of humanity, right? Possibly with Surak as the founder of their culture.

Yeah however it would never be directly stated.

There would be an effort to avoid such details as it would confuse the audience.

Also these races would functionally still be other alien races.

When you think about it how do we know that isn't the case within the trekverse in the first place,(semi rhetoric question) We have multiple races clearly able to interbreed, we spend little time characterizes these people as anything less than human etc. Obviously there is the occasional technobabble or other nonsense referring to a unique species, but in reality the idea that they are human descendants fits.

But, isn't the point in a harder version to directly state these changes? Not in a technobable or "as you know" scene, but the differences are still noted for whatever plot reasons.

If they are a different strain of human, but not commented on at all (i.e. the audience would never know either) then why make the distinction? Kind of echoing what BillJ said

Finally, if you want aliens that are different, not humanoid looking in the sense that they are played by rubber foreheaded actors, then any humans or different strains of humans, are going to stand out.

Look at Farscape. Farscape had both puppet and humanoid aliens, including aliens that look exactly like humans, but are not. Farscape did a great job of distinguishing many different aliens in their show at the beginning.

Given that Star Trek and science fiction is a niche product anyway, the details are far more necessary than is realized. This isn't the 60s were people are watching it in black and white on a smaller monitor. Scifi gets picked apart, and details are not only expected, but not having them is the confusing part.

 

[BillJ]

But if we keep everything vague we might run into the danger of once again having the same lose rules as the current Trek universe, which would lead to inconsistencies.

Gotta be honest, I like the lose rules. It allows writers to be creative. I've read/seen three different variations of the first warp flight/meeting with Vulcans/Zephram Cochrane and wouldn't want to lose any of them nor do I want to see Vulcans turned into an offshoot of humans.

Star Trek has its own flavor and if you take too much away, you lose that flavor. I want it to be big, fun and thumbing its nose to scientific rules if it serves the story. I also love the "God" stories and I think beings like Trelane, Apollo and Q are great.

As big a Trek fan as I am, if any of the stuff I'm reading here was put into practice, I would walk away.

 

[Autistoid]

There would be an effort to avoid such details as it would confuse the audience.

Also these races would functionally still be other alien races.

So it's a difference that makes no difference?

On the front yes as a functional part of trek it would not.

However it would obviously come with a total package of no ftls, no deux machina etc.