Han Solo is a d**k
- Thread starter EJA
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I had no problem with Han and Leia acquiescing to Jacen's death. I think LOTF did a really good job of showing the gradual degradation of Jacen to the point where this was necessary, as well his relationship with his parents/Jedi/GA. He burned Kashyyk to the ground and fired on his parents knowing a little girl was on board (if I remember correctly).
I've given up on the EU after the NJO series and the Vong war. LOTF has been pretty bland imo so far and I've skipped everything after the first book.
Some... er, interesting ideas there...
I hear ya on the tyranny of original genres, though. If I were omnipotent, I'd make a romantic comedy sequel to the The Mummy, still starring Fraser and Weisz. The latter deals with PTSD, Rick's intellectual shortcomings, her old London friends' disapproval of his etiquette and a sudden resurgent courtship from a well-to-do old school flame. Meanwhile, he's raring to embark upon another adventure, and, not knowing anyone else in London, getting smashed with Jonathan every night. Will they ever get together for good?! (Hint: yes.)
Now, The Mummy franchise was half comedy to begin with, so taking the supernatural element out might not be quite so jarring as taking the "wars" out of Star Wars. But I think the correct way to branch out is to do spin-off stories on Rogue Squadron, random bounty hunters and bygone Jedi exploits (and yes, I know these have been done). Once the Organa Solo twins are born and Luke and Mara are eying each other, draw down their fighting days and let them rest. JK Rowling went much too far into saccharine-land for the Potter epilogue, but the EU novels seemed to have gone just as far into misery-land, and with even worse overall results.
Weren't Uncle Owen & Aunt Beru actually Obi-Wan's Brother & Sister-In-law?
I seem to remember that from the Return of the Jedi novel?
They were actually supposed to be Anikan's (Darth Vader) brother and sister-in-law, no?
The OT novelizations are some of the few things that aren't canon, IIRC.
I think Owen was supposed to be Anakin's actual full-blood brother, and that he knew the truth about Anakin all along (yes yes, Vader wasn't supposed to be Anakin all along, I know...).
Then when Lucas got his "sci-fi pseudo Jesus" thing for Anakin with the immaculate conception, they had to find out some other way of making Owen Anakin's "brother" in a way so they settled on stepbrother.
Then when Lucas got his "sci-fi pseudo Jesus" thing for Anakin with the immaculate conception, they had to find out some other way of making Owen Anakin's "brother" in a way so they settled on stepbrother.
Johnny is right. When Obi-Wan is making his "certain point of view" speech
in the ROTJ novelization, he refers to leaving Luke with "my brother Owen" on Tatooine. Obviously not canon, but the passage is there.
Yeah, originally Owen was Obi-Wan's brother, Then with the prequels Lucas changed it. Owen was now Anakin's uncle though they were not related at all. Owen was the son of Shmi Skywalker's husband and her step son.
What did they DO to my beloved "Young Jedi Knights"?The concept they were going for was a good one. Jacen always was the one most philosophical about the nature of the Force. And Vergere's sales pitch that the Dark Side was an aspect of the user rather than the Force itself was a good one, allowing Jacen to channel both sides at once to escape Vong captivity.
So it's completely believable that he would decide the galaxy's problems could only be solved by the sort of order only a Sith could impose.
What I had a problem with was how he progressed from sympathetic but misguided to outright evil so quickly and unnaturally.
On the plus side, Legacy of the Force did a great job of developing Ben Skywalker into a fun new character.
On the EU: here's my feeling, right, wrong, whatever, this is just my opinion on the matter.
With Star Trek, a expanded-universe of stories works cause, even though, we might focus on one ship or crew at a time, it's pretty clear that they're on cog in a bigger story. The expansion works because even though the story we're told is a sliver of the whole, the whole is still out there happening off screen. There's other ships, there's other crews, other adventures out there and every once in a while the characters we're watching will sort of wink and nod about that.
Star Wars, for me, has always been more like a video game: a very linear story with three outcomes, only three, possible to the story: Win, lose, or draw. Return of the Jedi was the "final boss" of the Star Wars story. It never felt like a larger universe out there cause of the way the story's told, the universe revolved around these handful of people that have the power and the destiny to reshape the universe. The whole shebang was this story: The Skywalker Destiny.
Now, I'm not saying all the SW EU sucks, I'm saying that for me, as a Star Wars fan who grew up with the films, the game, the story was and is the films. I never felt like I needed or had to have a epilogue or a further adventures cause I felt the natural story for the Star Wars universe was complete with Return Of The Jedi.
With Star Trek, a expanded-universe of stories works cause, even though, we might focus on one ship or crew at a time, it's pretty clear that they're on cog in a bigger story. The expansion works because even though the story we're told is a sliver of the whole, the whole is still out there happening off screen. There's other ships, there's other crews, other adventures out there and every once in a while the characters we're watching will sort of wink and nod about that.
Star Wars, for me, has always been more like a video game: a very linear story with three outcomes, only three, possible to the story: Win, lose, or draw. Return of the Jedi was the "final boss" of the Star Wars story. It never felt like a larger universe out there cause of the way the story's told, the universe revolved around these handful of people that have the power and the destiny to reshape the universe. The whole shebang was this story: The Skywalker Destiny.
Now, I'm not saying all the SW EU sucks, I'm saying that for me, as a Star Wars fan who grew up with the films, the game, the story was and is the films. I never felt like I needed or had to have a epilogue or a further adventures cause I felt the natural story for the Star Wars universe was complete with Return Of The Jedi.
Well, here's the contrasting viewpoint: I think Star Trek has been publishing novels for so very long and under so many different editors that it would be impossible to unify the whole thing into a cohesive EU. There's no point in even trying; each story stands alone.
Now, lately, there has been an effort to keep things connected in some of the novels, but there are still occasional novels which are out of that continuity, and it's a very recent thing overall anyway.
With Star Wars, it was decided early on that *every* novel and comic would be part of the same continuity. There were a few things published earlier that don't fit too well, and of course Infinities, but on the whole they've stuck to that.
This is good because it has allowed the tapestry of characters to be greatly expanded while still focusing on the movie folks a fair bit of the time. On the other hand, it's bad because when the overall narrative direction goes somewhere you don't like, it affects everything----the entire continuity to some extent.
Both approaches have merit.
Now, lately, there has been an effort to keep things connected in some of the novels, but there are still occasional novels which are out of that continuity, and it's a very recent thing overall anyway.
With Star Wars, it was decided early on that *every* novel and comic would be part of the same continuity. There were a few things published earlier that don't fit too well, and of course Infinities, but on the whole they've stuck to that.
This is good because it has allowed the tapestry of characters to be greatly expanded while still focusing on the movie folks a fair bit of the time. On the other hand, it's bad because when the overall narrative direction goes somewhere you don't like, it affects everything----the entire continuity to some extent.
Both approaches have merit.
I agree... which is why the Thrawn trilogy is so great, IMO. Five years after Endor, the Empire is seriously weakened and getting smaller all the time, as more and more world join the New Republic. With the combination of the tactical genius Thrawn, one last cloning facility, the Katana Fleet and one last Dark Jedi Master, the Empire gets one final shot at staying in the game - and without all those pieces, it wouldn't even have that.
But the Imperials lose again, for good this time, and that's just as good a place to end the Skywalker-Organa-Solo story as Endor, IMHO. After that, one can do various spin-offs, but leave the New Republic dominant and the Big Three OT heroes alone.
The concept they were going for was a good one. Jacen always was the one most philosophical about the nature of the Force. And Vergere's sales pitch that the Dark Side was an aspect of the user rather than the Force itself was a good one, allowing Jacen to channel both sides at once to escape Vong captivity.
So it's completely believable that he would decide the galaxy's problems could only be solved by the sort of order only a Sith could impose.
What I had a problem with was how he progressed from sympathetic but misguided to outright evil so quickly and unnaturally.
Ah, but the sales pitch that Vergere gave him was the exact same sales pitch that Yoda would have given him.
Not really - Yoda isn't a dark side denier. He knows of the external dark side of the Force, and can perceive its growth.
Yes, but Luke and Leia's father did plenty of things that were just as horrifying, but Luke sensed that there were still some good and noble elements within him and was able to redeem him. Does Jacen get any of that treatment? Doesn't seem like it to me.
To be honest, I've always felt that the Jedi are pricks, with all their "No emotion" garbage and condescending attitude. It's little wonder Anakin turned against them.
Well said. The Thrawn trilogy was quite well-written and, from my point of view, bookends the series well enough.
Good point but I have two counterpoints
1) Jacen, at this point, was the sole instigator of this conflict. Vader was never anything more than a flunkie for Sidious. Lumiya started him off but she's dead at this point and he's still going all on his own.
2) Luke is a Jedi and a pacifist in fear of the Dark Side. Han is just a soldier with no such concerns.
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