GUARDIANS of the GALAXY - Grading & Discussion

[Reverend]

Yeah, this is exactly what I was thinking. Howard Stark, at the very least, has to be a white man. It would make sense for Tony to also be a white man, but Tony could be a biracial woman. Of course, then they couldn't use the Black Sabbath song.

It would no longer be Iron Man. They would have to change the movie's title to Iron Woman.

Unless of course you go with the gag that nobody knows it's a woman in that suit and just assumes it's a man. Of course you'd have to kick out the notion of Stark being out of the superhero secret identity closet, but it could work.

Still, I don't see a major conceptual problem with a name change, but I could defiantly see copyright issues. It would be easier to gender swap War Machine, since there's no reason a woman can't be USAF Colonel.

To reiterate though, there are relativly few characters who are defined by their race, but as people have pointed out, there are some cases where history simply wouldn't allow it. So yes, a black Captain America wouldn't be possible....that is to say you couldn't tell the same story and just substitute in a different actor. You'd have to tell a new story of a *different* iteration of "Captain America", but it's totally doable.

Just off the top of my head, I'm thinking a black man in 40's America would be a very likely candidate to be a guinea pig for a highly experimental, possibly lethal serum. I mean why not? These are some of the same people who pulled this crap. Of course they couldn't use him for the propaganda, so they'd get some strapping white six footer to wear the star spangled outfit for the bond drives and the newsreel appearances. All the while the "real" Captain America is the one out in the field.

In some ways this could be a more interesting take and one hell of a social commentary on mid-20th century race politics.

 

[sojourner]

Not even remotely.

You people just refuse to see the point being made, trying to dismiss it because you realize it shatters your view of what racism actually is.

In fact, you guys demonstrate exactly why racism was as rampant as it was for centuries upon centuries of history. It's so engrained into your psyche you can't even conceive of it as actual racism.

Just because Caucasians aren't a minority in the United States, that's no reason whatsoever to try and alter characters that are older than most of you just to appease some misguided notion that doing so somehow makes you enlightened and hip to modern times.

It's really, really, really sad and pathetic. Especially with how you ignore the whole "why don't you try make new characters of other races and genders" bit. Because, God fucking forbid, that requires effort.

In other words, "it's been that way for a long time, therefore it's all right"



Long standing racism is still racism. Everyone, even a white man can realize, "yeah, that was wrong in the past" and change their ways in the present.

Evolve or die.

 

[publiusr]

But Spock used to be played by a Jewish human. Did that really factor into his essence?

I have actually heard a line that Nimoy wasn't a Jew playing a Vulcan--but a Vulcan playing a Jew. His were the People of the Book--a center others could look at. Later in life, Leonard--like his character--warmed and became interested in a lot more things...his photography for example.

If Patterns Of Force were to be made today, he wouldn't wear that blasted uniform--even if it was just fiction.

 

[Enterprise1701]

Can anyone tell me what song listed in the score is the main theme of the movie? I don't mean any of the 80s songs; I mean well, the epic song.

 

[JD]

Honestly, the only reason so many of the comic book superheroes are white guys is because at the time they were created most of the hero characters were. That's no the case anymore, so if you can change a character's race or gender without it totally changing the whole concept of the character, then I say go for it. Sure you might have to kind of tweak a few of the details, but chances are they were going to do that anyways so it doesn't really matter.

 

[Professor Zoom]

To reiterate though, there are relativly few characters who are defined by their race, but as people have pointed out, there are some cases where history simply wouldn't allow it. So yes, a black Captain America wouldn't be possible....that is to say you couldn't tell the same story and just substitute in a different actor. You'd have to tell a new story of a *different* iteration of "Captain America", but it's totally doable.

Just off the top of my head, I'm thinking a black man in 40's America would be a very likely candidate to be a guinea pig for a highly experimental, possibly lethal serum. I mean why not? These are some of the same people who pulled this crap. Of course they couldn't use him for the propaganda, so they'd get some strapping white six footer to wear the star spangled outfit for the bond drives and the newsreel appearances. All the while the "real" Captain America is the one out in the field.

In some ways this could be a more interesting take and one hell of a social commentary on mid-20th century race politics.

It's funny that you should mention that idea...

And it's fantastic. Read it.

 

[Rowan Sjet]

But even if you don't change anything about established characters, the fact that there aren't any movies scheduled, let alone released, that have something other than a white-male character in the lead role, when there is a roster of characters from the comics to choose from, is incredibly frustrating. No matter how good the supporting roles for them are, they're still playing second fiddle.

 

[Captaindemotion]

But even if you don't change anything about established characters, the fact that there aren't any movies scheduled, let alone released, that have something other than a white-male character in the lead role, when there is a roster of characters from the comics to choose from, is incredibly frustrating. No matter how good the supporting roles for them are, they're still playing second fiddle.

Isn't it quite ironic that, to a certain extent, the comic-book movie renaissance was arguably started by Blade in 1999, but we've had hardly any superhero films with a black lead since then?

Hopefully we'll get a Black Panther movie. Anthony Mackie has the charisma to headline a Falcon film, though the character himself isn't necessarily the most compelling, and IIRC we're getting a Luke Cage TV series.

 

[Mudd]

Of course, Johnny Storm will be played by a black actor in the upcoming Fantastic Four reboot.

 

[Kelthaz]

Sidestepping the diversity controversy for the minute, GOTG is now back on top at the box office. It has dethroned TMNT and has taken the #1 spot after two weekends in second.

http://io9.com/guardians-of-the-galaxy-reclaims-pole-position-at-the-b-1626195289

How often does that happen where a movie is number one, drops, and then picks back up? Obviously, it says something about the film in between (big enough to take the crown but not good enough to keep it).

I was wondering that too. It's very impressive that, even with GOTG's huge opening weekend, it still has such strong legs.

 

[Vendikarr]

Sidestepping the diversity controversy for the minute, GOTG is now back on top at the box office. It has dethroned TMNT and has taken the #1 spot after two weekends in second.

http://io9.com/guardians-of-the-galaxy-reclaims-pole-position-at-the-b-1626195289

How often does that happen where a movie is number one, drops, and then picks back up? Obviously, it says something about the film in between (big enough to take the crown but not good enough to keep it).

I was wondering that too. It's very impressive that, even with GOTG's huge opening weekend, it still has such strong legs.

It implies a strong word of mouth driving new viewers to the theater, along with a good rewatch demand.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Just now got to see this movie. I really really liked it, though I did coming away thinking that it's maybe been a little bit overhyped. The first two scenes were fantastic, and then there was a bit of a dip. The whole conception of Xandar just felt kind of weird, like some futuristic sci-fi pleasantville (although the Nova Corps at the end did sort of sell me on it eventually - loved the 'blockade'), and the 'getting the team together' bits did feel a little bit forced. The prison break was an awesome sequence, though, and from the moment Rocket had his drunken breakdown, there was no stopping this movie. My general thoughts:

The main flaw that never really got redeemed was, as everyone said, the cookie cutter motivations of Ronan.

I actually really liked Nebula, and second the notion that we need to see more of her.

Groot is possibly a new favorite character of mine - so much more expressive than i expected and really cool abilities. His resurrection couldn't have been more telegraphed if they'd flashed a big 'Groot will return' sign on the screen, but his final moments were still awesome.

Gamora wasn't at all what I thought - less badass assassin and much more goody two shoes with mad skills. I like it, though, especially as an interesting counterpoint to badass Nebula (and to wacky, slightly amoral Quill).

Yondu really strained my credibility throughout the movie. Why are they taking this wacko so seriously, I kept thinking. The scene when he finally used his arrow shut me up instantly. I actually would like to see more of him now.

Thanos was a bit too easy going - hopefully he gets more involved in future films.

Nova Prime just felt kind of out of place. Reminded me a bit of Jodie Foster's character in Elysium, but more generic (and less evil, of course).

ETA: I also really loved the score (not the soundtrack, though that was fine). It's been a long time since I heard that kind of wonderfully airy, celestial sci-fi music in a blockbuster movie.

I'm pissed. I WANT to see this movie, but I DON'T want to pay extra to see it in 3D (because it bothers my eyes) and there's no 2D screening locally.

I hate this 3D shit. The film doesn't even look good. It looks too dark and the colours are washed out. Give me a nice clear 2D anytime. I haven't yet been able to see the latest Apes movie either because of this.

While I'm sure a random person online isn't going to change your mind, I thought the 3D was actually pretty good. For me it added to the movie and didn't detract from it.

I do agree though that 3D is being shoved down our throats more and more. Out of the two showings this movie is getting at my local theater (3D and 2D) only the 3D showings start early and are spread out throughout the day while the 2D showings don't start until the afternoon and only number about 4.

This confuses me. I'll agree that the 3d at least didn't get in the way (Godzilla, I'm looking at you) but I didn't see anything good about it at all. It was just kind of there, jacking up the price for no good reason.

Yondu got to Earth in a Ship. No effort. Well not a lot that we were made aware of.

Ronan got from Thanos' throne world to Xandar (Where Yondu and Starlord were.) and back again, in a couple hours.

Um.

Peter may have "chosen" to stay in space, or was told that bad shit would happen if he went back and shared alien tech with the humans... But why the frakk did Thanos need the Tesseract to invade Earth by wormhole, when it's a doable trip in hours to a month at most with conventional engines?

Thanos didn't need the Tesseract to invade earth, he needed to invade earth for the tesseract. Using the portal was probably Loki's idea, big drama queen that he is.

 

[mimic]

It would no longer be Iron Man. They would have to change the movie's title to Iron Woman.

Or call the movie Fe-Male?

(You knew that was coming.)

that's no reason whatsoever to try and alter characters that are older than most of you just to appease some misguided notion that doing so somehow makes you enlightened and hip to modern times.

Out of curiosity, are you angry that the 'Annie' remake starring Jamie Foxx and Quvenzhane Wallis? I would argue that the things that make her 'Annie' are really just her optimism and lack of parents, not the red hair. Storytelling should only be limited by the imagination, not tethered to tradition.

I really liked Guardians and I wouldn't want Star-Lord changed into a woman just for the sake of diversity (also, I enjoy seeing Chris Pratt do well). But I am hoping that when they finally make that Mass Effect movie they go in the fem-Shep direction.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

It would no longer be Iron Man. They would have to change the movie's title to Iron Woman.

Or call the movie Fe-Male?

(You knew that was coming.)

Ow


Ow


Ow...

 

[mos6507]

The thing about superheroes (I guess even anti-heroes like GoG) are kind of treated like a pantheon of gods or demigods and just like Jesus and Santa Claus, people are very defensive about how they're presented, both physically and in the outfit. If they don't somehow measure up to our expectations, whether those expectations are in-tune with the past, or expecting some radical reinvention, then people get upset. But what's also true is that no matter what's done, you won't please everyone.

The same is true of characters from any long-standing franchise (hence the classic vs. nuTrek controversy and all of the acrimony that goes with it).

If there's a tragedy behind the "everything has to be based on a preexisting property" way of Hollywood these days, is it touches off these battles, whereas something completely original has to be taken more on its own terms.

 

[Dream]

It would no longer be Iron Man. They would have to change the movie's title to Iron Woman.

Or call the movie Fe-Male?

Fe-Male is a pretty bad movie title.

 

[Harvey]

It's also a joke.

 

[Turtletrekker]

It would no longer be Iron Man. They would have to change the movie's title to Iron Woman.

Or call the movie Fe-Male?

Fe-Male is a pretty bad movie title.

 

[Gaith]

^ Let's have no more of that leaden humor, thank you.

 

[Mage]

Yondu really strained my credibility throughout the movie. Why are they taking this wacko so seriously, I kept thinking. The scene when he finally used his arrow shut me up instantly. I actually would like to see more of him now.

I had the same feeling. People follow him, take his orders and everything. We got a little hint at that arrow when they went to the same buyer Quill did, but it was still a bit meh.

Then we saw what he really could do, and yeah..... makes sense everybody simply does what he says or else.