GUARDIANS of the GALAXY - Grading & Discussion

[urbandefault]

I think we're all missing the point of whatever you're trying to say. It seems to be "I'm white and tired of hearing about people that aren't".

That's not unusual around these parts. The "missing the point" thing, I mean.

I'm really tired of repeating that I just want to enjoy a movie without a bunch of people telling me it's racist because the green chick wasn't played by a black chick.

Whoops.

Did someone tell you that?

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!

 

[BigJake]

"I don't care. I really don't."

Yeah, sometimes you can conduct yourself in ways that make that sort of statement more believable? And sometimes less so. When ranting about the secret plans of whomever to send white actors off to work in chain gangs -- "tongue in cheek," of course, I'm sure -- that would to some be an example of "less so."

Or:

I'm really tired of repeating that I just want to enjoy a movie without a bunch of people telling me it's racist because the green chick wasn't played by a black chick.

When nobody mentions "racism" but you bring it up anyway as a charge you're supposed to be defending yourself from in some vague way... that also could, for some, be a less than convincing approach.

YMMV, of course.

 

[Mister Fandango]

Incorrect.

No, it was correct.

Advocating diversity is noble and praiseworthy. Particularly given the vehement, irrational, and hysterical statements such advocacy tends to elicit.

And again, I'm fine with advocating diversity. Advocating diversity, however, doesn't mean completely and utterly altering existing characters just to appease someone's white guilt.

Advocating superheroes of other ethnicities is perfectly fine and admirable. That's not the same as "demanding" that Tony Stark be a Yanaigua transvestite just to appease some non-existant quota of non-white people that you think you're owed.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Who's "demanding" and are they the same people who were "forcing"?

 

[sojourner]

I think we're all missing the point of whatever you're trying to say. It seems to be "I'm white and tired of hearing about people that aren't".

That's not unusual around these parts. The "missing the point" thing, I mean.

I'm really tired of repeating that I just want to enjoy a movie without a bunch of people telling me it's racist because the green chick wasn't played by a black chick.

Whoops.

I think your only recourse is to stop participating in discussions then. Clearly, other people's viewpoints is of no interest to you. BTW, who's forcing you to repeat what you say? Just get it out there and move on.

 

[Reverend]

Incorrect.

No, it was correct.

Flawless counter argument. Well played sir!

Advocating diversity is noble and praiseworthy. Particularly given the vehement, irrational, and hysterical statements such advocacy tends to elicit.

And again, I'm fine with advocating diversity. Advocating diversity, however, doesn't mean completely and utterly altering existing characters just to appease someone's white guilt.

Advocating superheroes of other ethnicities is perfectly fine and admirable. That's not the same as "demanding" that Tony Stark be a Yanaigua transvestite just to appease some non-existant quota of non-white people that you think you're owed.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how casting a non-Caucasian in the role of Tony Stark equates to "utterly altering existing characters just to appease someone's white guilt".
*Nothing* about his character is defined by his being Caucasian. It's utterly incidental. As it was with Fury and Heimdal. Now Black Panther on the other hand *is* very much defined by his ethnicity because it's built into his backstory. Making him anything other than African redefines his whole character.

Also, who's "demanding" anything? All I see are people saying they're OK with the concept and a significantly smaller number of people having a hissy fit.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Incorrect.

No, it was correct.

Considering your statement was a hyperbolic misrepresentation of advocating diversity, describing it as "forcing" and "demanding," it was most certainly incorrect. The statement was, in fact, blindingly, obtusely, and hysterically incorrect.

Advocating diversity is noble and praiseworthy. Particularly given the vehement, irrational, and hysterical statements such advocacy tends to elicit.

And again, I'm fine with advocating diversity. Advocating diversity, however, doesn't mean completely and utterly altering existing characters just to appease someone's white guilt.

Advocating superheroes of other ethnicities is perfectly fine and admirable. That's not the same as "demanding" that Tony Stark be a Yanaigua transvestite just to appease some non-existant quota of non-white people that you think you're owed.

Your argument remains wholly unconvincing. As Reverend points out, Tony Stark's character isn't defined by race. Heck, I'm not convinced that it's defined by gender, either, considering all you would need is an subtle alteration in the name of Stark's alter-ego. Therefore the character could be performed by any professional actor or actress and it wouldn't diminish the character or the film.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Comic book writers and illustrators change character's history, back story, motivations, allegiances, goals, abilities and overall personality on a regular basis. Then they retcon the whole thing.

I can't understand how any fan of comic books would be upset by other fans calling for a change in something as simple as character's skin color.
I mean they could be calling for a character to die and his arch-nemesis to take over his body and mind and .... nah that is too far fetched.

 

[Enterprise1701]

Finally saw the movie in theaters. It was definitely something different.

I noticed that Xandar was stated to be the capital planet of the "Nova Empire". Has that term been used in the comics?

So did the Kree leadership secretly approve of Ronan's plan? How else could he be allowed to run around in the Dark Aster, a vessel that must be military property, without any legal reprisal? Then again, he seemed to only have Sakaaran soldiers, not Kree soldiers, under his command. Unless Sakaarans are a mainstay of the Kree Empire's military.

 

[DEWLine]

Not in my experience. Xandar seemed to be one of those one-system star nations scattered across interstellar space that our assorted heroes...or their enemies...might occasionally run into.

 

[DEWLine]

For those of you interested in fictional user interface design and animation...feast your eyes!

http://www.territorystudio.com/work/motion/?p=GuardiansOfTheGalaxy

 

[Enterprise1701]

Not in my experience. Xandar seemed to be one of those one-system star nations scattered across interstellar space that our assorted heroes...or their enemies...might occasionally run into.

Huh. The crowd in the Xandarian capital city was really diverse. According to the Marvel Cinematic Universe wiki, Carina, her predecessor, Star-Lord's ex-girlfriend Bereet, and Corpsman/Denarian Dey's wife and daughter are Kylorians.

 

[DEWLine]

"Nova Empire" might be used as a nickname here for something more benign(dare we hope?) in structure and nature. It'll be interesting to see what else can be gleaned from that wiki and the tweets they linked to.

 

[Masiral]

I for one like that Starlord and Tony Stark aren't being played by women.

Uh, why?

Gender or race aren't really central to these characters so they could easily be changed without hurting the integrity of the stories. These characters are about their superpowers and often about their emotional trauma.

Changing their race or gender wouldn't really make a difference in any negative way but it would be more inclusive while at the same time being less boring and repetitive. Win/win situation, really. Especially if the want to play the whole reboot-game, too to sell the same product over and over.

Well, given the family history, I do think it's a no-brainer that Howard and Tony Stark should be white men. You don't become one of the government's largest contractors in WW2-era America if you're not.

Yeah, this is exactly what I was thinking. Howard Stark, at the very least, has to be a white man. It would make sense for Tony to also be a white man, but Tony could be a biracial woman. Of course, then they couldn't use the Black Sabbath song.

Here's a hypothetical - how would people have felt if J.J. Abrams had cast a woman as Captain Jane T. Kirk in the 2009 reboot?

 

[Dream]

Yeah, this is exactly what I was thinking. Howard Stark, at the very least, has to be a white man. It would make sense for Tony to also be a white man, but Tony could be a biracial woman. Of course, then they couldn't use the Black Sabbath song.

It would no longer be Iron Man. They would have to change the movie's title to Iron Woman.

Here's a hypothetical - how would people have felt if J.J. Abrams had cast a woman as Captain Jane T. Kirk in the 2009 reboot?

Janeway was pretty much a female Kirk, but without the whole sleeping around thing.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Here's a hypothetical - how would people have felt if J.J. Abrams had cast a woman as Captain Jane T. Kirk in the 2009 reboot?

I probably would have felt about the same as I did when I heard that they recast Starbuck as a woman. My first reaction, then, was: Really? Once the surprise wore off, I settled on a wait-and-see approach. And you know, regardless of where the show went (and I think it went right off a cliff), the nuBSG mini-series remains a very high-quality, powerful sci-fi story. And Starbuck sits front and center as a big reason why.

Bottom line: I care more about the final product than in preserving the racial/gender makeup of a character first created decades ago.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Really, a person in a suit can be called Iron Man if they so choose regardless of gender. No one would know the difference.

Regarding whether a black man could get hired by the government during the Second World War, let's not forget that anti-semitism was also prevalent, but the government certainly hired Jewish researchers for the Manhattan Project. Someone of Howard Stark's genius would be worth hiring. Now I'd agree that he wouldn't be able to found SHIELD or have anywhere near the same success post war, but a story certainly could be made to work.

I'd agree if the argument were Steve Rogers. Obviously, Falcon proves that Captain America doesn't have to be white, but I do think being the stereotype of "all American" during the 1940s is part of his character.

 

[Harvey]

Regarding whether a black man could get hired by the government during the Second World War, let's not forget that anti-semitism was also prevalent, but the government certainly hired Jewish researchers for the Manhattan Project. Someone of Howard Stark's genius would be worth hiring. Now I'd agree that he wouldn't be able to found SHIELD or have anywhere near the same success post war, but a story certainly could be made to work.

It's worth pointing out that Marvel had Captain America running around with an integrated unit during World War II without batting an eye.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Uh, why?

Gender or race aren't really central to these characters so they could easily be changed without hurting the integrity of the stories. These characters are about their superpowers and often about their emotional trauma.

Changing their race or gender wouldn't really make a difference in any negative way but it would be more inclusive while at the same time being less boring and repetitive. Win/win situation, really. Especially if the want to play the whole reboot-game, too to sell the same product over and over.

Well, given the family history, I do think it's a no-brainer that Howard and Tony Stark should be white men. You don't become one of the government's largest contractors in WW2-era America if you're not.

Yeah, this is exactly what I was thinking. Howard Stark, at the very least, has to be a white man. It would make sense for Tony to also be a white man, but Tony could be a biracial woman. Of course, then they couldn't use the Black Sabbath song.

Here's a hypothetical - how would people have felt if J.J. Abrams had cast a woman as Captain Jane T. Kirk in the 2009 reboot?

That assumes any reboot of the Iron Man franchise keeps the WWII backstory for Howard Stark. Its 2014, the men who fought in WWII are in their 80s and 90s. Tony being the son of any adult involved in WWII is getting more remote. I'm sure the comic themselves are moving past that connection. Just as they've moved past Tony getting wounded in Vietnam and fighting communist agents.

 

[Dream]

Guardians of the Galaxy characters debut at Disney's Villains Unleashed party