greed, politics, privelege and exclusion
- Thread starter xortex
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Well, who would you say are the 'right' people?
I think different people might have different ideas about that.....
I think different people might have different ideas about that.....
If any of the Star Trek movies were done by the "right" people, it was ST:TMP. While the movie's stock has certainly risen over the past 25 years, few would say it is the best Trek movie.
Everybody said Daniel Craig was the wrong guy to play James Bond. Look how correct conventional wisdom was there.
Everybody said Daniel Craig was the wrong guy to play James Bond. Look how correct conventional wisdom was there.
Funny I thought The Changling's big brother was a living computer that ascended and don't recall either from the screen or the novel it controlling the Klingons. Perhaps that was a plan, but its not what we got.
Question you raised yourself remains: Who is "good enough" to make more Trek. Given we can't bring back the dead... GR's out, much of the fanbase has a hate on for B&B. So who is it then?
If anything this is the first step in the right direction...
Sharr
Re:The Okdudas and PAD
Would you rather a script written by the Okudas, PAD and Manny Coto?
Would you rather a script written by the Okudas, PAD and Manny Coto?
Re:The Okdudas and PAD
Let me let you in on a secret: One they're no longer "insiders" haven't been since their respective shows ended and second at one point they to were "new blood". If we've to make a comparison these writers are likely closer to Manny Coto in their spirit from all I've read.
This topic leaves with the impression, that you have the (false) impression there is some linear blood-line that passes down inside Trek secrets to each new torch bearer...
Sharr
Let me let you in on a secret: One they're no longer "insiders" haven't been since their respective shows ended and second at one point they to were "new blood". If we've to make a comparison these writers are likely closer to Manny Coto in their spirit from all I've read.
This topic leaves with the impression, that you have the (false) impression there is some linear blood-line that passes down inside Trek secrets to each new torch bearer...
Sharr
Re:The Okdudas and PAD
KEN BILLER!? Wasn't he a VOYAGER writer? They probably changed the locks at Paramount after Voyager finished!
KEN BILLER!? Wasn't he a VOYAGER writer? They probably changed the locks at Paramount after Voyager finished!
Re:The Okdudas and PAD
I said Manny Coto has access to more ideas than the trek XI writer's did not that I like Manny Coto but his perspective I think would be quite different now I would hope even though he felt that everything had to come from him to the exclusion of all else. I just think he may be hoarding his own stories which Paramount could have at least considered.
I said Manny Coto has access to more ideas than the trek XI writer's did not that I like Manny Coto but his perspective I think would be quite different now I would hope even though he felt that everything had to come from him to the exclusion of all else. I just think he may be hoarding his own stories which Paramount could have at least considered.
Re:The Okdudas and PAD
I'm sure there are a great many past Trek writers "hoarding story ideas" things they'd like to tell. All that amounts to an ant hill. I've no reason to believe that whatever some past Trek writer may or may not be keeping in their head is any better then what we're gonna get.
Sharr
I'm sure there are a great many past Trek writers "hoarding story ideas" things they'd like to tell. All that amounts to an ant hill. I've no reason to believe that whatever some past Trek writer may or may not be keeping in their head is any better then what we're gonna get.
Sharr
Re:The Okdudas and PAD
Is there like a database or something? Like a harddrive with the only stories Star Trek can tell?
It's a ridiculous notion.
Is there one person to lead Star Trek? Yes. There is. However, everyone has a different opinion who that is. And no one will ever agree.
The thing is...it doesn't really matter WHO is in charge, so much as the quality of work. Berman is hated now, but, what about during TNG when they were making QUALITY shows? First Contact is a pretty good movie.
In the end, it's about the product and not about who is in charge.
Is there like a database or something? Like a harddrive with the only stories Star Trek can tell?
It's a ridiculous notion.
Is there one person to lead Star Trek? Yes. There is. However, everyone has a different opinion who that is. And no one will ever agree.
The thing is...it doesn't really matter WHO is in charge, so much as the quality of work. Berman is hated now, but, what about during TNG when they were making QUALITY shows? First Contact is a pretty good movie.
In the end, it's about the product and not about who is in charge.
Re:The Okdudas and PAD
First contact is a good movie ? - bull. IMO that movie sealed the coffin of star Trek. Many people who were interested in giving ST a mainstream chance I think were disappointed with the mundane highly derivative plot. I mean some of the elements had potential but not the story itself. Same with the first NG movie. The high mind concept was stupid, stupid, stupid and done before somewhere many times. I even think the Borg was an inherently bad idea. It was a rip off by Herley of a Tracy Torme idea. Hey the guys father wrote ' chestnuts roasting on an open fire.. merry christmas to you', he deserves a chance. I fear this movie will be far worse than we ever thought in the end. Things just seem to be getting worse from Insurrection to Nemisis to this.
First contact is a good movie ? - bull. IMO that movie sealed the coffin of star Trek. Many people who were interested in giving ST a mainstream chance I think were disappointed with the mundane highly derivative plot. I mean some of the elements had potential but not the story itself. Same with the first NG movie. The high mind concept was stupid, stupid, stupid and done before somewhere many times. I even think the Borg was an inherently bad idea. It was a rip off by Herley of a Tracy Torme idea. Hey the guys father wrote ' chestnuts roasting on an open fire.. merry christmas to you', he deserves a chance. I fear this movie will be far worse than we ever thought in the end. Things just seem to be getting worse from Insurrection to Nemisis to this.
Re:The Okdudas and PAD
Well, the Box Office of First Contact disagrees with you as do I. A perfect film, no, but a fun Star Trek film nonetheless.
Now, Insurrection and Nemesis were bad.
But there's really no way to objectively determine which film is better than another. It's all an opinion.
As far as this new movie, have you seen it yet? Clips? A script? How do you know it's a part of the getting worse trend?
That's right. It's just your opinion.
Well, the Box Office of First Contact disagrees with you as do I. A perfect film, no, but a fun Star Trek film nonetheless.
Now, Insurrection and Nemesis were bad.
But there's really no way to objectively determine which film is better than another. It's all an opinion.
As far as this new movie, have you seen it yet? Clips? A script? How do you know it's a part of the getting worse trend?
That's right. It's just your opinion.
Re:The Okdudas and PAD
I'll bet that comes as a surprise to all the mainstream critics who liked it.
(Edit: Professor Zoom beat me to the punch...)
I'll bet that comes as a surprise to all the mainstream critics who liked it.
(Edit: Professor Zoom beat me to the punch...)
Re:The Okdudas and PAD
This whole discussion is so circular. I must however quibble here. This assertion tells me so much and is the perfect example of the myopic Trekkie view of the franchise and as I'm learning more and more things in general.
How can you make a statement like that? It is an assertion from authority but lacks supporting evidence. I'd love to hear how you came to this conclusion that Coto or Braga or whomever you are currently idealizing in Trek circles has some "access" to better stories then whatever these guys have written. Last time I checked writing wasn't based on "access" (please define that) but creativity.
It also presupposes to actually know these writers minds as well as how they regard Star Trek (were I to judge from everything they've *stated*, I would say they know Trek and hold it in great reverence...)
More over your taking a very insular position about all this. One that is totally based in some odd fantasy land of an ideal Trek paradise.
For the record I hope "Star Trek" bombs as well as "Transformers" - since news flash Star Trek - the Franchise was created to make money.
Sharr
This whole discussion is so circular. I must however quibble here. This assertion tells me so much and is the perfect example of the myopic Trekkie view of the franchise and as I'm learning more and more things in general.
How can you make a statement like that? It is an assertion from authority but lacks supporting evidence. I'd love to hear how you came to this conclusion that Coto or Braga or whomever you are currently idealizing in Trek circles has some "access" to better stories then whatever these guys have written. Last time I checked writing wasn't based on "access" (please define that) but creativity.
It also presupposes to actually know these writers minds as well as how they regard Star Trek (were I to judge from everything they've *stated*, I would say they know Trek and hold it in great reverence...)
More over your taking a very insular position about all this. One that is totally based in some odd fantasy land of an ideal Trek paradise.
For the record I hope "Star Trek" bombs as well as "Transformers" - since news flash Star Trek - the Franchise was created to make money.
Sharr
Re:The Okdudas and PAD
Then Logan was your man, huh ? Oh but no, he didn't make any money. Those guys were inundated with stories for years that's all. So then you liked STIV the best because it made the most money ? The decline is more than evident. I hope it will change esp since they're pouring so much money into this movie it is like the biggest movie ever produced or something.
Then Logan was your man, huh ? Oh but no, he didn't make any money. Those guys were inundated with stories for years that's all. So then you liked STIV the best because it made the most money ? The decline is more than evident. I hope it will change esp since they're pouring so much money into this movie it is like the biggest movie ever produced or something.
