"Great" episodes that you don't really care for

[retroenzo]

Another vote for The Menagerie. The tribunal plot goes nowhere, and I have some issues with its implications.

Isn't that the point of the tribunal plot though? That it's meant to be going nowhere. In fact, it's meant to distract Kirk from trying to regain control of the Enterprise. To be honest though, my only issue with The Menagerie is that in hindsight it's too near to the start of the run and might have been better later on in the series. I know that would have been impractical as they had to recycle the footage from The Cage to make up a quick two-parter, and yes I also know that The Cage wouldn't have been seen at the time so it wouldn't have been fresh in anyone's memories.

 

[Voth commando1]

Am I the only one who likes Voyager Borg(and their respective episodes) more than TNG Borg?

 

[retroenzo]

Am I the only one who likes Voyager Borg(and their respective episodes) more than TNG Borg?

If you mean in appearance, then not at all. While I loved Best of Both Worlds and will hold that up as one of the best episodes of Trek across the board, I do wish they could look like they did in Voyager/First Contact.

 

[Voth commando1]

If you mean in appearance, then not at all. While I loved Best of Both Worlds and will hold that up as one of the best episodes of Trek across the board, I do wish they could look like they did in Voyager/First Contact.

Yeah the tng Borg effects are just grating and downright bad.

Am I also in the minority to think it stupid and silly when people say "Voyager emasculated the Borg." The Borg were probably the greatest threat Voyager encountered-apart from the Voth and species 8472.

 

[BillJ]

Am I the only one who likes Voyager Borg(and their respective episodes) more than TNG Borg?

I enjoy the Voyager Borg stories. But, "Q, Who" and "The Best of Both Worlds" are the pinnacle of Berman Trek for me.

 

[Rad]

Yeah the tng Borg effects are just grating and downright bad.

Am I also in the minority to think it stupid and silly when people say "Voyager emasculated the Borg." The Borg were probably the greatest threat Voyager encountered-apart from the Voth and species 8472.

I know we were glues to the TV for the Voyager Species 8472 and Borg episodes. "Endgame" was really great story telling!

 

[at Quark's]

Yeah the tng Borg effects are just grating and downright bad.

Am I also in the minority to think it stupid and silly when people say "Voyager emasculated the Borg." The Borg were probably the greatest threat Voyager encountered-apart from the Voth and species 8472.

In TNG (the series, not the movie), the Borg are an unbeatably superior foe. No weapon against them works (for more than a few times at least). No tactic they can think of against them works, however brilliant or unconventional. The resources that the entire Federation and Klingons combined can muster on short notice, or the planetary Earth defenses can't put a dent in the cube, not even slow them down. In the end, and for that one time only, they are only saved by access to inside information, divulged by the assimilated Picard.

In VOY, beating the Borg by using nothing more than the resources Voyager has (which is a small ship, not even meant for long-term independent exploration) and using clever tactics is hard, but doable.This is shown multiple times.

Of course, you can rationalise this somewhat by saying that in those 10 years, weapons, tactics and insights in the Borg had advanced. Also, that 7 gave them valuable information off-screen. The real reason is that the Borg as originally depicted would have been too formidable as a recurring foe, the writers would have run out of Borg weaknesses they could exploit to tell fresh new stories very quickly. So they had to give them a few additional ones. Just as the Voth would have gotten weaker, had they appeared multiple times in 'confrontation' stories.

 

[drt]

From time to time I look at those "best episode" lists online and some that are in there always surprise me. For instance, I never much cared for Space Seed. Don't get me wrong, Montalban is great in it and I am a great fan of TWOK, but the episode itself I find a bit, well, boring.

I'm pretty sure "Space Seed" ended up on the best episodes retroactively, I don't recall it being on many such lists in the 1970s, it was only after TWOK became universally beloved, the idea arose that the episode it was based on had to be great as well.

 

[stardream]

In TNG (the series, not the movie), the Borg are an unbeatably superior foe. No weapon against them works (for more than a few times at least). No tactic they can think of against them works, however brilliant or unconventional. The resources that the entire Federation and Klingons combined can muster on short notice, or the planetary Earth defenses can't put a dent in the cube, not even slow them down. In the end, and for that one time only, they are only saved by access to inside information, divulged by the assimilated Picard.

In VOY, beating the Borg by using nothing more than the resources Voyager has (which is a small ship, not even meant for long-term independent exploration) and using clever tactics is hard, but doable.This is shown multiple times.

Of course, you can rationalise this somewhat by saying that in those 10 years, weapons, tactics and insights in the Borg had advanced. Also, that 7 gave them valuable information off-screen. The real reason is that the Borg as originally depicted would have been too formidable as a recurring foe, the writers would have run out of Borg weaknesses they could exploit to tell fresh new stories very quickly. So they had to give them a few additional ones. Just as the Voth would have gotten weaker, had they appeared multiple times in 'confrontation' stories.

It's the old 'The more you know about the bad guys, the less scary they become, but if you don't learn more they become static and boring' scenario.

 

[eyeresist]

Rather than just listing specific episodes I will list some types of episodes:

Angst - a whole ep about a character feeling sad.
Romance - Trek never did this well, except Odo's yearning for Kira, and that went flat once it was out in the open.
Klingons (Berman era) - fun at first, but eventually the constant grimyness, backstabbing and talk of honour become dull and dreary.​

and I kind of hated "The Andorian Incident".

That ep is definitely clunky in execution, therefore hard to love, but it does set up for some great eps later on.

I welcome some true ENT fans to disagree, but over the years, I can only recall having seen it referenced as a controversial episode that posters strongly disagree with.

It's a decent episode that is ruined by a terrible ending, so some just hate it and some feel ambivalent.

 

[Voth commando1]

@Rad

Your not being sarcastic are you?

 

[2takesfrakes]

Species 8472 was the purest shite. A CGI alien that runs around in its birthday suit, doesn't need an astronaut's outfit in space, even - and is rendered in the cheesiest manner possible. Yet, despite all of it's apparent evil ... really just wants to be loved. And Braga gets carried around on Trekkies' shoulders for having come up with this banality, because OH!!! A species capable of defeating The Borg!!! Ohhhh ... Ahhhh ...!!! Just hateful.

 

[eyeresist]

I haven't seen Braga get much love round here.....

I'm not very familiar with VOY, so just saw Species 8472 for the first time on Youtube. I guess the CGI was okay-ish for a TV show of its time, but compared to Starship Troopers (same year) it does seem like they overreached.

(You can also tell they had the same CGI team working on ENT, though thankfully the tech had improved, even if the character animations hadn't.)

 

[KelisThePoet]

Is Voyager's "Distant Origin" considered a great episode? I never would have thought so, but it seems to be getting a surprising amount of love and attention on the Voyager board. I think it's one of the series' worst. All talk, bad rubber masks, and an allegory both too pointed and too transparent to be interesting.

I actually felt similarly about "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield," when I finally saw it, after hearing so many great things about it. But while that episode also has too much talk, it has a bit more plot and fun than "Distant Origin." At least it's amusing to watch the two aliens jogging around the Enterprise's corridors, until it gets old. It's certainly better than "Chosen Realm," the Enterprise series' stab at re-creating it.

 

[retroenzo]

Rather than just listing specific episodes I will list some types of episodes:

Angst - a whole ep about a character feeling sad.
Romance - Trek never did this well, except Odo's yearning for Kira, and that went flat once it was out in the open.
Klingons (Berman era) - fun at first, but eventually the constant grimyness, backstabbing and talk of honour become dull and dreary.​

Are... are you me? Add Bajoran religious episodes to this and it would be my list too.

 

[eyeresist]

I agree about the Bajor stuff, and probably would have included it if it wasn't specific to DS9. Kira was an enjoyable character when she was kicking ass, but her romances and her religion and her struggle with the Kai were no fun.

 

[The Lonely Man]

Living Witness from Voyager is usually held in pretty high regards but I never liked it, I found the premise of the episode silly and one of the real low points of the series for me.

It's a view not shared by many Voyager fans.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Kira was an enjoyable character when she was kicking ass, but her romances and her religion and her struggle with the Kai were no fun.

So you'd rather she be a one-dimensional pair of butt-kicking boots with no soul? Like it or not, people have a spiritual dimension. If we didn't, we wouldn't watch shows like this, or ask the tough questions.

 

[Griffeytrek]

I'm not really that big a fan of Yesterday's Enterprise. Not really that fond of Tasha, or Sela for that matter.

The same. I think that would be the big one of these type episodes for me. Really the only thing I love about the episode is the 1701-C. Great ship. But Denise Crosby always left me meh.

 

[JesterFace]

TNG and 'The Inner Light', for some reason this one seems to be a classic but I just can't get into it... (yet?)

 

[Steve Gennarelli]

I'll just stick with "Classic" Trek....

As someone else also mentioned, "The Devil in the Dark"...It was always on the top 10 lists back in the 70's...but now I'd place it somewhere in the middle of the pack for the series.

Journey to Babel would probably get my most overrated. Just hokey and silly in some parts. Yes, I like Spock's parents...but some of the humor is a little too forced.