Gotham - Season 1

[Guy Gardener]

Donal has misplaced his love handles since last I got a really good look at him.

Which is nice for him.

Probably added 10 years to his life.

But to me, this seems like...

OH!

He's going to get fatter gradually each season!

By season 5, Logue is going to look every inch the tub of goo one should expect of Harvey Bullock.

OH!

I just thought of the best guest star!

Sandra Bullock as herself, who is Harvey's cousin!

She's there at his his family Christmas party or whatnot.

 

[Christopher]

Good point. Not everybody has the names "Edward Nigma" or "Oswald Cobblepot" burned into their brains, let alone "Renee Montoya" or "Harvey Bullock."

I remember hearing accounts of some fans of Smallville who were startled when they were told that the show they'd been watching for months or years was about the guy who'd grow up to be Superman. They'd thought it was just a teen drama about an alien with unusual abilities, in the vein of Roswell, say. The names "Clark Kent," "Lex Luthor," and "Lana Lang" didn't trigger any recognition, even though they'd heard of Superman (who hasn't?).

 

[Greg Cox]

My oldest niece watched Smallville religiously, and knew vaguely that Clark Kent grew up to Superman, but had never read the comics and knew absolutely nothing about the Phantom Zone, Brainiac, Zod, Perry White, Jimmy Olsen, or any of that.

And I suspect she wasn't alone. It would be a mistake to assume that only lifelong comics fans watch these kind of shows. At one end of the spectrum are the hardcore fans who know the comics by heart; the other end are the folks who know absolutely nothing about Batman and, yeah, probably aren't interested in the show at all. But the bulk of the audience is in the bell curve at the middle of the spectrum. They're casually familiar with Gotham City from the various movie and TV versions, to varying degrees, and may have even read a comic or two in their time, but they don't know the lore backwards and forwards like we do.

 

[Mach5]

 

[Christopher]

It would be a mistake to assume that only lifelong comics fans watch these kind of shows. At one end of the spectrum are the hardcore fans who know the comics by heart; the other end are the folks who know absolutely nothing about Batman and, yeah, probably aren't interested in the show at all. But the bulk of the audience is in the bell curve at the middle of the spectrum. They're casually familiar with Gotham City from the various movie and TV versions, to varying degrees, and may have even read a comic or two in their time, but they don't know the lore backwards and forwards like we do.

Right. Few people who make a movie or show are trying to cater to only a single niche audience. The goal with a show like this is to design it to work on two levels, so that viewers familiar with the comics will see the elements they recognize, while viewers who know nothing about the comics will be able to appreciate it as a self-contained storyline.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

is it my imagination or does Ben McKenzie bring to mind a young Russell Crow...Oswald's deformed ear notwithstanding?

Maybe that's why I find Jim so appealing. Crowe's a douchebag, but he's magnetic on screen.

 

[davejames]

But why bother being tricky or subtle about it if people are tuning in to see Batman characters? Sometimes a blunt force approach is just what the job calls for.

Yeah I suppose I was just hoping it would be done in a much more interesting and subtle way than it was. I certainly have no problem with a more colorful, comic book style (which the new Flash series appears to be jam-packed with), but for a cop show/origin story involving the dark and fascinating world of Gotham and depicting how Gordon and these villains become what they are, a simplistic and campier approach just doesn't really seem like the best fit, or the best way to explore the idea. At least for me.

But oh well, it's just one show. And I never cared for Smallville or Arrow either, so I'm kind of used to this by now.

 

[Mach5]

is it my imagination or does Ben McKenzie bring to mind a young Russell Crow...

A bit, perhaps.

Oswald's deformed ear notwithstanding?

You do realize it's an ear plug that got caught on camera by mistake, right?

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Shoot, I was wondering if it was a hearing aid. The pic isn't so clear on my mobile. But McKenzie does look like Crowe more than a little bit.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

Well, it was much better than I expected it to be, but then I had extremely low expectations from the reviews of the original pilot script that circulated.

Jim Gordon is a character I adore and that I think can easily hold down a series. IF they truly make him the main character and explore who he is, why he's a good cop in a bad town, and why he'd be willing to have the relationship he has with an outside-the-law vigilante in the future. Going from uptight, morally self-righteous rookie to the Commissioner of Police by working his way up from the inside of a wildly corrupt city and then embracing vigilantism could be a very interesting story. My favorite aspect of the pilot was that I saw a little of that complexity when Gordon faked killing Cobblepot. If we get into him as investigating the city's corruption by going undercover within the police force as it were - that's good stuff and something that hasn't particularly been overdone on cop shows, which I usually find tedious beyond bearing.

I loved their use of young Bruce in the pilot - but I think they've got to be very careful not to lean too heavily on him. I'm very ambivalent about young Selina stalking Bruce, largely because I foresee a relationship in which she instructs him in how to skulk about over the rooftops. I'm the exact opposite of a continuity nazi, but Catwoman as one of Batman's early tutors seems wrong. It could conceivably work if the writing were really interesting, but since you just know they'll throw the romance aspect in there too and by that time things are getting really muddled, especially when you're working all of this into a 21st Century Noir police procedural.

Penguin has never interested me one iota - but this one does. The actor feels psychotic and slippery. I liked Fish and Falcone as well. The Big Crime aspect of Gotham was good. Now I want to see some serious police and city corruption, not just lone bad cop Bullock skating about with a low level mob player. For my tastes, Batman comics have always been too much about outlandish Rogues, where what I like is the idea of a vigilante fighting deep corruption and more true crime style material. Setting up that Gotham is way more interesting to me than Poison Ivy, Riddler and Catwoman.

Terrible music, but an interesting aesthetic crossing garish comic book sensibilities with 70s crime movies. They're obviously trying to find their bearing when it comes to the writing and I'm willing to give them a minute to do that. They seem firmly prepared to make this an adult show and not try to capture the 8 year old demographic, which is good since there's enough diffusion in their storytelling goals as it is.

So, I'm intrigued but not yet quite sold.

 

[shapeshifter]

Dang, I was so into the story I forgot to pay attention to the soundtrack.

A solid introduction, I am chomping at the bit for more! It also makes me want to re-watch the original Burton Batman despite my being burned out on it from over viewing.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I can see from the visual queues the Jim resigned from the police force "briefly" when he put his badge on the table in front of Bruce, but he didn't actually say any thing like "take my badge" or "I failed this city" or anything to indicate that he was only going to continue being gainfully employed if this 8 year old let him, sure I can see that that happened, but Bruce is an 13 year old child and %80 of his brain should have been dedicated to leveraging porn and beer out of Gordon somehow.

I mean seriously, what was going to happen in that child took his badge?

Was he just going to walk away and sell womens shoes to make ends meet.

(Funny line on the Mindy Project: "What is Ends Meat? I keep hearing people talking about ends meat, it sounds delicious, but what is it? Is it the the two bits at the end where the ends meet?".)

 

[JD]

Do we know yet if Commissioner Loeb is going to be in this? He seems to be a pretty big part of the corruption of Gotham and the police in most versions of the story.

 

[Christopher]

Do we know yet if Commissioner Loeb is going to be in this? He seems to be a pretty big part of the corruption of Gotham and the police in most versions of the story.

"Most?" Let's see.... Gillian Loeb was created in Batman: Year One in 1987, making him part of the post-Crisis continuity. He's in the New 52 continuity as seen in Zero Year, where he's also portrayed as a corrupt cop. He's in the Arkham Origins video game as a hostage, but it's unclear from Wikipedia whether his corruption is mentioned. And a more honest, sympathetic (and African-American) version of Loeb appears in the Nolan films. There's no Loeb in any of the animated shows or in the Burton/Schumacher films. We don't learn anything about Gordon's predecessor in the DC Animated Universe. In The Batman, he was preceded by Chief Angel Rojas (or was there as Commissioner all along but just didn't get involved with Batman until the end of season 2). There's an unnamed commissioner who briefly appears in an episode of Beware the Batman and is, I think, killed by Ra's al Ghul (or as close as you can come on kids' TV), leaving the seat open for Gordon.

So if by "most versions" you mean the majority of alternate continuities, Loeb doesn't seem to be a figure in most of them. But certainly Year One is the most influential template for portrayals of a corrupt pre-Gordon GCPD, mainly by virtue of being the first (as far as I know).

Anyway, no mention of Loeb being a character in Gotham yet. But nobody else has been mentioned as police commissioner yet, so it's possible.

 

[sidious618]

Why would you lecture someone at such lengths over a small thing like that? It comes across as very condescending and rude. Loeb is a common enough character that it's possible the poster may have seen him in most versions of Batman s/he has read.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Looks like South Carolina is desperately in need of the future Commissioner Gordon's influence. Though, to be fair that dastardly son of a bitch *was* going for his driver's license kind of
suspiciously. Just because he was asked to do so is no reason to reach into his car and comply.

 

[sojourner]

Yeah, that's on topic.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The more you know.

I'd always thought that Loeb was a nod to Jeph Loeb.

But then my Batman is very weak.

 

[Trekker4747]

So, I wonder how long before the series (if it lasts) introduces more "superntural" or overtly comic-book elements to it? Would an off-the-cuff mention of Smallville or Metropolis count? (Implying that there's a child from a crashed space ship living out there somewhere?) A mission that has ties to Themyscira?

Or will the show strictly stick in the mundane?

 

[Christopher]

Why would you lecture someone at such lengths over a small thing like that?

Why would you think my intent was to "lecture?" I'm providing fuller information on the topic that's been raised. Basically I'm just conveying Wikipedia and IMDb's information on the character, to save people the trouble of looking it up themselves. I see that as being helpful. It's something I'm good at -- doing research and reporting what I find -- and I like to feel useful. It always hurts and puzzles me when people misconstrue it as some kind of condescending attack. I'm just trying to contribute.