I liked Nygma in the first one because he actually had riddles. He didn't do much in character here. I agree about Cat, she's probably the most promising character (followed by Cobblepot).
Gotham - Season 1
- Thread starter Agent Richard07
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I liked Nygma in the first one because he actually had riddles. He didn't do much in character here. I agree about Cat, she's probably the most promising character (followed by Cobblepot).
He's obviously training himself but only after he has prepared.
Well. I said I'd form my opinions based on the evidence, and the pilot and interviews gave me the impression that the show was going for a Nolanesque realism. After the evidence of this episode, I don't know what to make of the show anymore. Some of the cast were still going for a serious, naturalistic tone, but others, like the child abductors, Jada Pinkett-Smith, and Carol Kane, gave the campiest performances I've seen in a Batman production since the Schumacher movies. It's a bizarre clash, like even the producers don't know what kind of show they're making. And the campy parts really made me doubt that this show has a future. It's a throwback to a style of comics-based storytelling that I think audiences have outgrown.
And the script was awful. No trace of subtlety or subtext, everyone just saying outright what they thought or felt in the most prosaic and blatant terms possible, or else in ridiculously broad terms like Fish's line about killing Falcone with her bare hands and teeth. If this is Bruno Heller's approach to dialogue, it deeply disheartens me about this series. Although I did note that Ben Edlund is on board as a producer, which is more encouraging.
The second half wasn't as bad as the first. It was nice to finally discover that Camren Bicondova can actually talk as well as just strike poses, and she did a pretty good job. And Bruce is the most intriguing and effective character on the show -- the scene with him at the end was the one part of the writing I actually found effective, and Mazouz is doing an excellent job. Alfred is not coming off nearly as well, however.
It says something that the most satisfying performances on this show are coming from the teenagers. Honestly I'm not sure how much more of Pinkett-Smith's scenery-chewing I can tolerate.
And the script was awful. No trace of subtlety or subtext, everyone just saying outright what they thought or felt in the most prosaic and blatant terms possible, or else in ridiculously broad terms like Fish's line about killing Falcone with her bare hands and teeth. If this is Bruno Heller's approach to dialogue, it deeply disheartens me about this series. Although I did note that Ben Edlund is on board as a producer, which is more encouraging.
The second half wasn't as bad as the first. It was nice to finally discover that Camren Bicondova can actually talk as well as just strike poses, and she did a pretty good job. And Bruce is the most intriguing and effective character on the show -- the scene with him at the end was the one part of the writing I actually found effective, and Mazouz is doing an excellent job. Alfred is not coming off nearly as well, however.
It says something that the most satisfying performances on this show are coming from the teenagers. Honestly I'm not sure how much more of Pinkett-Smith's scenery-chewing I can tolerate.
Yeah, I like Pinkett-Smith but she needs to tone it down it down a bit.
She can't.
The character is what the character is now.
The character is what the character is now.
It's unashamedly a Noir.
Loved it. LOVED. IT.
I'm anti-crushing on Penguin. He's so delightfully psychotic.
Plus, who can't adore Fish? Her over the top performance fits the noir tone and mood. Under the surface she's seething at Falcone and ready to explode. I like it.
I also respectfully disagree with a previous poster's assessment of Alfred. Alfred doesn't love Bruce. Not yet. Love and a level of comfort with someone takes time. This Alfred will become wiser and relate better to Bruce once he becomes more adult. He's not accustomed to being in charge. I buy his discomfort.
Selina's adorable, but 13? I call bull shit on that. Didn't that creepy male kidnapper get his head blown off by Samuel L. Jackson once upon a time? Gordon was still appealingly stalwart and noble, but once again Barbara is the weak link. I'd welcome seeing the would-be foe of corruption fall prey to temptation of the flesh just to breathe some life into Babs.
I'm anti-crushing on Penguin. He's so delightfully psychotic.
Plus, who can't adore Fish? Her over the top performance fits the noir tone and mood. Under the surface she's seething at Falcone and ready to explode. I like it.I also respectfully disagree with a previous poster's assessment of Alfred. Alfred doesn't love Bruce. Not yet. Love and a level of comfort with someone takes time. This Alfred will become wiser and relate better to Bruce once he becomes more adult. He's not accustomed to being in charge. I buy his discomfort.
Selina's adorable, but 13? I call bull shit on that. Didn't that creepy male kidnapper get his head blown off by Samuel L. Jackson once upon a time? Gordon was still appealingly stalwart and noble, but once again Barbara is the weak link. I'd welcome seeing the would-be foe of corruption fall prey to temptation of the flesh just to breathe some life into Babs.
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Catgirl in real life is 15. Bat Boy in real life is 13.
And Barbara in real life is English, so if you hadn't figured that out, she's doing quite well.
And Barbara in real life is English, so if you hadn't figured that out, she's doing quite well.
I have no problem with the way she speaks. The character just seems to meander is all. Not terribly compelling, albeit with a convincing American accent.
Cat girl actress is 15??! No way.
Cat girl actress is 15??! No way.
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I think I might be done with this series. It's corny as hell and the dialog has a subtlety of a rock hitting you over the head.
This episode did have a nice ending so I might watch another week.
This episode did have a nice ending so I might watch another week.
I don't see anything noir about a villain saying "Oh, fudge" in a cutesy tone of voice when someone she's trying to kidnap gets away. That's not noir, it's sheer camp.
And if it's noir, it's bad noir at this point. How do they show the corruption? They have Barbara explicitly say "I can't believe the system is so corrupt." Because evidently Bruno Heller thinks his audience is too stupid to be able to deduce that from all the corruption openly going on. And how do they show Gordon's discomfort at Bullock beating a suspect? They have Gordon and Bullock argue in as many words about the rightness of beating a suspect. Good noir has subtext. Things are implied, subtle, mysterious, symbolic. Noir does mean "black," after all, as in the black of shadows at night. It's a genre that thrives on obscurity and concealment, not on having every character state what they're thinking and feeling in the most overt and literal terms possible.
Any show set in a comic book universe is going to have elements of campiness.
ARROW doesn't.
There are comical lines here and there but nothing I would call campiness.
Yeah, it's going to get kind of weird and awkward here in a couple of seasons when the actress is 17, knocking on 18 and Selina is now 15 (assuming the show runs at one season = one year) and the actor playing Bruce is 15, and we don't really know how old Bruce is supposed to be.
The actress is good, and she's an acrobatics performer so that plays well into her playing Cat(woman) but she's not pulling off 13 at all.
If you are a 13 year old person who lives with your parents, you are most likely a 13 year old child, but if you are a 13 year old person who lives on the streets alone, it's not a stretch to assume that you are a 13 year old adult in most ways.
ARROW doesn't.
Maybe not intentionally but as someone who is a very infrequent viewer tuning into a scene like this is not without camp moments.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALWZMF_sru0[/yt]
Yeah, that scene's definitely a little over the top. 
I'll stick with Gotham with its superb cast. 
I'll stick with Gotham with its superb cast.
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