Good scenes in mediocre episodes

[Orphalesion]

No, he tells his origin 10 episodes later in Heart of Glory.

Which was ten episodes later. His character was a last minute addition and they created him as they went along in Season 1.
So no, nothing indicates that the writers of Justice already knew Worf's backstory.

 

[Qonundrum]

I’ve always enjoyed the Klingon Tea Ceremony scene in “Up The Long Ladder”— even though it doesn’t seem to serve any purpose in the larger plot.

It's most definitely a nice one-off scene that expands on Pulaski's character, and knowledge of Klingon lore (despite the generic name accorded it). Enough knowledge to obtain and apply an antidote before partaking in something that would otherwise kill her, for the sake of camaraderie.

Does it really need to be a springboard into a Klingon-themed episode? Perhaps. Or perhaps not. As a standalone vignette, it's still a charming scene in its own right. Her covering for Worf to Picard with an exaggeration is very TOS-like but not in a bad way. Though I would have Pulaski mention "chicken pox" instead of "measles", you know anyone in the audience would be itching to change that.

 

[Qonundrum]

Which was ten episodes later. His character was a last minute addition and they created him as they went along in Season 1.
So no, nothing indicates that the writers of Justice already knew Worf's backstory.

Michael Dorn was quick to embrace the role and expand on it, making it his own as well as expanding on the lore. TNG did eventually overuse Klingons, but his introduction into DS9 gave both it and them a revitalization, which no other character would have done justice for.

 

[Orphalesion]

Michael Dorn was quick to embrace the role and expand on it, making it his own as well as expanding on the lore. TNG did eventually overuse Klingons, but his introduction into DS9 gave both it and them a revitalization, which no other character would have done justice for.

I wasn't saying anything negative about Worf. He's one of my favourites on TNG. And I believe Michael Dorn is a very good actor and brought the character to life. That the character was underdeveloped when Dorn started playing him is just a testament to his abilities.

 

[JaxsBrokenHeart]

I find the Royale to be fairly tedious and uninteresting for most of the running time, but Spiner does give Data's little roleplay as the dice throwing high roller some charm and I'd be lying if I said I didn't smile at his delivery of "Baby needs a new pair of shoes."

 

[RAMA]

I've gone on record saying the last 10 minutes of "Justice" is actually quite good Star Trek, and Picard/Stewart shine.

RAMA

 

[at Quark's]

I liked this scene from cost of living

PICARD: Married? She's getting married?
RIKER: Yes. If we stay on our present course, we should rendezvous with her intended groom in thirty one hours.
PICARD: I will not continue have that woman continuing to use this ship for her convenience, simply because her daughter happens to be one of my officers.
RIKER: Apparently, Deanna being on board is only part of the reason.
PICARD: The other reason being?
RIKER: She thinks the honour of giving away the bride should fall on you.
PICARD: Permission for an on-board wedding is granted, Number One. Nothing would please me more than to give away Mrs. Troi.

Happened to rewatch this episode yesterday. It's the episode with the 'nitrium-eating parasites' that eat away at the ship, and Data saves the day when they can no longer maintain life support. What would they have done, had Data's systems contained nitrium as well? (For a bit of extra drama, they could have had that goo starting to drip out of his mouth while answering Picard, I suppose.)

EDIT: later saw this remark

Hey, and I guess Lwaxana's monologue to Alexander about being alone later in this episode is good too!

I agree, that is an unexpectedly strong Lwaxana moment.

 

[JesterFace]

I watched 'Force of Nature' the other day. The teaser with Geordi, Data and Spot is nice.

It's not a completely useless episode, but the "surfing" was weird....

 

[gakelly]

Force of Nature is one of the worst episodes out there. The first half is about Data's cat.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

"Force of Nature" is one of my favorite TNG episodes. The pushback it gets often reminds me of the reactions in the real world to global climate change.

 

[DonIago]

I feel the reception FoN tends to get in some circles is similar (not identical to) the reaction some have to TVH and the "save the whales" messaging. Granted the latter is a bit more on-the-nose in terms of the message.

 

[gakelly]

It's preachy.
Not well written and plodding
The guest characters are pretty shallow and one dimensional.
An entirely forgettable episode for sure.
It was almost like they didn't have enough material for a full episode so they stuck us with the cat plot.

 

[DonIago]

Similar to INS, I feel that subtlety and realism (i.e. actual discussion of the issues and non-fanaticism) are sacrificed in the interest of moving the plot along, but that sacrifice in turn weakens the plot.

 

[Orphalesion]

"Force of Nature" is one of my favorite TNG episodes. The pushback it gets often reminds me of the reactions in the real world to global climate change.

No... just...no.
One is people ignoring a serious problem in the real world that we can't just push under the rug if it gets inconvenient.

The other is an ill-conceived and badly written episode that makes a clumsy attempt at allegory and throws a wrench into the central story telling engine of the entire franchise that, if it was actually implemented, would only cause tedium and complications for a entertainment show that it was always going to be ignored, making the whole episode entirely pointless.
There was nothing the "warp speed limit" could have contributed to telling stories (instead of making them being slowed by the warp limit, just make the place they have to go to far away, causing the same type of "will we make it in time??" drama)

I don't think the backlash against the episode stems primarily from climate change deniers, but rather because it was a stupid and pointless idea to add to the franchise. Which makes your comparison just as clumsy as the episode.

 

[Valin]

I think that "Where No One Has Gone Before" is often considered one of the more solid examples from the shaky S1, but that scene you cite is certainly a highlight. The episode does have its cheesy moments and it's more dramatically overwrought like much of S1, but I think it's high points (FX, The Traveler, ambitious story, Ron Jones score) outweigh it's missteps.

Yes, one of my few favorites from season one.

 

[Qonundrum]

I wasn't saying anything negative about Worf. He's one of my favourites on TNG. And I believe Michael Dorn is a very good actor and brought the character to life. That the character was underdeveloped when Dorn started playing him is just a testament to his abilities.

I didn't mean to give any impression or insinuating you were saying anything negative about Worf - my apologies. I do think we're both on the same page with Dorn and Worf.

 

[Orphalesion]

I didn't mean to give any impression or insinuating you were saying anything negative about Worf - my apologies. I do think we're both on the same page with Dorn and Worf.

Don't worry about it. I find it sometimes difficult to properly interpret messages, since there's no tone of voice or facial expression.
Just like I'm sometimes worried my messages are misunderstood, so I try to clarify things.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

No... just...no.
One is people ignoring a serious problem in the real world that we can't just push under the rug if it gets inconvenient.

The other is an ill-conceived and badly written episode that makes a clumsy attempt at allegory and throws a wrench into the central story telling engine of the entire franchise that, if it was actually implemented, would only cause tedium and complications for a entertainment show that it was always going to be ignored, making the whole episode entirely pointless.
There was nothing the "warp speed limit" could have contributed to telling stories (instead of making them being slowed by the warp limit, just make the place they have to go to far away, causing the same type of "will we make it in time??" drama)

I don't think the backlash against the episode stems primarily from climate change deniers, but rather because it was a stupid and pointless idea to add to the franchise. Which makes your comparison just as clumsy as the episode.

Case in point, as throwing a [monkey] wrench into the central story-telling engine as you put it is precisely what the allegory demands, not to mention that presenting obstacles for the characters to overcome, including choices between multiple bad alternatives, is a good thing in drama. Delete, reset, ignore is of course the opposite of good drama as are magic plot transition devices such as warp drive and transporters*, and Trek is guilty of these on many occasions, including here.**

* - Range and shield status are swept aside for transporter use, whenever the plot demands.

** - As this is off-topic, now, really, this is all I'm going to say in this thread about whether "Force of Nature" is a mediocre episode; carry on.

 

[Orphalesion]

Case in point, as throwing a [monkey] wrench into the central story-telling engine as you put it is precisely what the allegory demands, not to mention that presenting obstacles for the characters to overcome, including choices between multiple bad alternatives, is a good thing in drama. Delete, reset, ignore is of course the opposite of good drama as are magic plot transition devices such as warp drive and transporters*, and Trek is guilty of these on many occasions, including here.**

* - Range and shield status are swept aside for transporter use, whenever the plot demands.

** - As this is off-topic, now, really, this is all I'm going to say in this thread about whether "Force of Nature" is a mediocre episode; carry on.

And all I'm gonna dd is that I agree that complications are good for a story, but that this specific complication would have added nothing (again, make the place they want to go far away instead of the warp limit) and that complications should only be used to create more story potential. Plus it's like a writer trying to give Superman complications by hitting him with some ray that makes it so that he can only fly 100 feet each day. Stuff like that is never gonna stick, making the episode pointless in my eyes.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

"Now, now, NOW!"

 

[matthunter]

It's preachy.
Not well written and plodding
The guest characters are pretty shallow and one dimensional.
An entirely forgettable episode for sure.
It was almost like they didn't have enough material for a full episode so they stuck us with the cat plot.

I mean, they could have at least had two guys blackfaced up on opposite sides of their noggins. Really been subtle about it, y'know?