Go Get Your Shotguns (Spoilers)

[Cary L. Brown]

Starship Polaris said:

xortex said:You're right, the music is not going to be soupy, it's going to be bloody.

You don't know anything of the kind.

In fact, this composer has done some pretty marvelous scores - certainly better than anything that, say, James "Ripoff" Horner ever did for Trek.

Now was that necessary? You were going so WELL... but then you had to rip into Horner.

I, personally, think of Horner's score for TWOK as the one I like the best. Much better, as far as I'm concerned, than Goldsmith's TMP one, and better than Courage's original theme (or, should I say... "Roddenberry's theme?")

You made a perfectly correct point, but you spoiled it by unnecessarily ripping on Horner. And in the process insulted the taste of anyone who likes Horner's work (including but not limited to me, obviously).

 

[number6]

Cary L. Brown said:

Starship Polaris said:

xortex said:You're right, the music is not going to be soupy, it's going to be bloody.

You don't know anything of the kind.

In fact, this composer has done some pretty marvelous scores - certainly better than anything that, say, James "Ripoff" Horner ever did for Trek.

Now was that necessary? You were going so WELL... but then you had to rip into Horner.

It's not like he ripped into John "Lenny Kravitz" Williams.

 

[Tamek]

Perhaps I should clarify, my original post was complete and utter sarcasm.

I, for one, am curious to see what they've hatched up.

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

Cary L. Brown said:

ancient said:See, it's also possible to take this to mean: Way more sets, way more aliens, way more ships, etc. Rather than any specific redesigns.

Isn't it fun to play Guess the Meaning?

How dare you talk reasonably?

There are really two things that are said in that article. First, the exterior of the ship is NOT changing (according to someone who's not working on the exterior of the ship, mind you, so take that with a slab of salt!) and the inside WILL show some differences.

How much? That's ENTIRELY subject to debate and discussion. If (1) we're seeing THE ENTERPRISE, and (2) it's during a period where we've seen before... yeah, it oughta look very much like we remember, but it doesn't have to be built out of plywood flats and 2x4's and use cast resin bits for keypads and so forth.

On the other hand, if it's set in another timeframe... the key thing is that the sets are (1) able to fit into the framework of the ship as we know it, and (2) are thematically and stylistically recognizable as being set in the same general universe.

I'm personally very fond of the general presentation of the TOS sets, but I don't believe that they represent the "real" version of what those hypothetical "real" starship interiors would look like. They represent the best approximation of the hypothetical "real" sets that was possible on a shoestring budget and basic TV filming limitations in 1966.

A few months ago, I put up a pretty in-depth poll in the "future of Trek" board about this. In it, among many other things, I gave a choice regarding the interiors which I described as being "the same as the original design, but with a greater degree of 'polish'" and that perspective was WIDELY the favorite approach as stated by everyone who posted.

I know that at least two of the folks who're doing this movie read that poll and found it interesting... though I doubt that they'd have made any artistic or other filmmaking decisions based solely upon a "TrekBBS" poll.

My point is that the people on this board were pretty clear... they wanted the exterior to be "almost identical" by an overwhelming margin, but allowed for cleaning it up and giving it a much finer finish job. But for the interior, the decision a nearly split between "almost identical but cleaned up" and "very close to the original but with significant differences."

So, what I'm reading here is that we're getting what we, as a group, seem to WANT. A ship that looks almost identical externally but has an interior that, while recognizable, will be done with orders of magnitude better construction and detailing.

For example...no more "pegboards" in Engineering, with blinky lights behind the holes. But I'd be shocked if there wasn't something SIMILAR there... ie, a huge display board that could, among other things, show schematic diagrams which would look much like the old "pegboard" from a distance, if you squint...

It won't be the same... but it'll be a better approximation of whatever the original sets were supposed to represent. THAT is what I fully expect to see.

And this article, as I read it, seemed to confirm everything I expect to see. Of course, like ALL of us, we all filter things through our own perceptions, so I'm sure that there are some people who will take that as proof positive that "THIS IS A REBOOOOOOTTTT!!!" and some people who will take the "directive from Abrams and/or PPC that the ship's exterior cannot change" to be proof positive that THE SHIP WILL HAVE WINNNNNGGGGSSSSS!!!!

Can you expand on this?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Cary L. Brown said: but then you had to rip into Horner.

Fan of his? I'm so, so sorry...but hardly apologetic. You must have noticed that he's entirely derivative of other, better composers and is so lazy that he recycles whatever of his own material isn't instantly forgettable from one film to the next.

 

[Jack Bauer]

xortex said:
You're right, the music is not going to be soupy, it's going to be bloody.

You've never heard Giacchino's music before have you?

 

[mredom]

Starship Polaris said:

Cary L. Brown said: but then you had to rip into Horner.

Fan of his? I'm so, so sorry...but hardly apologetic. You must have noticed that he's entirely derivative of other, better composers and is so lazy that he recycles whatever of his own material isn't instantly forgettable from one film to the next.

Composers dating back to Bach have stolen from both each other, and themselves. This doesn't make anyone a "hack". Anytime a composer writes the sheer amount of music that a composer like Horner, or Goldsmith, or Williams have written you will find quotations of other material. That doesn't mean that the music that Horner wrote for TWOK is ANY less effective, nor the music by Goldsmith for TMP. Much of the music written for trek is of a very high quality.

These are highly trained and talented craftsmen, I think they do a great job. Is it always at the same level? No. Do you have to like it? Do I have to like it? No. There is a lot of music I find to be unworthy of attention, but it's all subjective.

Guess my point is that, just because you dn't like Horner's score doesn't make him a hack.

I know I won't change your mind, but I felt compelled to pitch in my 2 cents.

MRE

 

[mredom]

Starship Polaris said:

Cary L. Brown said: but then you had to rip into Horner.

Fan of his? I'm so, so sorry...but hardly apologetic. You must have noticed that he's entirely derivative of other, better composers and is so lazy that he recycles whatever of his own material isn't instantly forgettable from one film to the next.

Composers dating back to Bach have stolen from both each other, and themselves. This doesn't make anyone a "hack". Anytime a composer writes the sheer amount of music that a composer like Horner, or Goldsmith, or Williams have written you will find quotations of other material. That doesn't mean that the music that Horner wrote for TWOK is ANY less effective, nor the music by Goldsmith for TMP. Much of the music written for trek is of a very high quality.

These are highly trained and talented craftsmen, I think they do a great job. Is it always at the same level? No. Do you have to like it? Do I have to like it? No. There is a lot of music I find to be unworthy of attention, but it's all subjective.

Guess my point is that, just because you don't like Horner's score doesn't make him a hack.

I know I won't change your mind, but I felt compelled to pitch in my 2 cents.

MRE

 

[MattJC]

Abrams and his team need to come clean and quit jerking people around and just say it's a remake.

 

[StCoop]

MattJC said:
Abrams and his team need to come clean and quit jerking people around and just say it's a remake.

I like being jerked around. It gives me a special feeling in my tummy.

 

[MattJC]

Fair enough.
I'd rather this team be honest, then it'd be easier for me to move on.
No more cute jargon, just the truth.
I don't see how saying it is a remake is going to reveal too much of the plot of the movie.

 

[Jack Bauer]

MattJC said:
Abrams and his team need to come clean and quit jerking people around and just say it's a remake.

 

[StCoop]

MattJC said:
I don't see how saying it is a remake is going to reveal too much of the plot of the movie.

You are, of course, assuming that not being slavishly adherant to the designs of a 40 year old TV show is the same thing as being a remake, when it clearly isn't.

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

MattJC said:
I don't see how saying it is a remake is going to reveal too much of the plot of the movie.

I disagree. If they announced it is a remake, we would all -- instantly -- know the plot of this film.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

mredom said:
Composers dating back to Bach have stolen from both each other, and themselves. This doesn't make anyone a "hack". Anytime a composer writes the sheer amount of music that a composer like Horner, or Goldsmith, or Williams have written you will find quotations of other material.

It's easy to tell the difference between what a composer like Goldsmith does and what a hack like Horner does. Otherwise it wouldn't be necessary to resort to the "everybody does it" defense.

 

[Kegek]

mredom said:
Composers dating back to Bach have stolen from both each other, and themselves.

Sure. But how many of Bach's contemporaries are still well-regarded today? If a composer can't write something memorable and original, he's not going to make a name for himself. Bach may have stolen, but he'd be nothing if he couldn't also create.

Horner's problem is essentially one of unoriginality. He recycles the same musical cues and themes endlessly. Goldsmith's score for TMP has an operatic depth and intensity that no Star Trek score as equalled since - though, IMHO, Eidelmann did a good job cobbling together a Shostakovich/Holst-style piece for TUC.

With his proven track record, it's a safe bet to make that Giacchino will be giving us one of the best Star Trek film scores to date.

 

[Franklin]

Samuel T. Cogley said:
93% of us are going to geek out and love the new sets the second we see them, no matter how different they are.

And the other 7% will make 93% of the posts here, flaming the new sets.

I'd like to see some really large rooms on board the ship. Some real sense of the scale of the thing. Like they tried to do in TMP, only better. Anything but the claustrophobic submarine look they went for in the other TOS movies.

 

[Stag]

Professor Moriarty said:
The rest of you can do whatever you want to do. Me, I'm wearing a raincoat to the premiere to protect my clothing from all the exploding heads of Trekkies.

I understand these will be posted outside each theater auditorium that is showing TREK XI...

...necessary of course.

Oh yeah, I was able to sneak this out of Paramount, a pic of Spock's new science station...

 

[Holytomato]

"I can't think of any modern big-screen epic that doesn't use green screen these days.

All of the Trek films have used green screen or blue screen."

Shh. You're interfering with the whining.

"Green Screen!? What the f&ck!? Do you think this is 2008!? It isn't! It's 1966!!!! :SOB:"

I find it funny that people are fine with added detailing on the interiors but don't want changes on the exterior.

 

[number6]

They used Blue Screen in 1966.