Given all the chaos, DIS could've been a lot worse.

[KlingonCereal]

I've always held a fairly middle of the road opinion on DIS. Some of the criticisms I agree with, but for the most part I feel that the show has been one of the most dynamic and receptive I've ever seen. I think I'm largely forgiving of most issues due to just how crazy production has been from the start. To highlight what I mean:

• Season 01 - Due to production issues, this season feels out of place today. Originally, DIS was meant to be an anthology show. Each season would have a new cast or focus on the star trek universe. I think it was initially viewed as a "lets just do something with this IP already" by CBS. Once CBS All Access plans began ramping up, it became evident that Star Trek was a great pillar show for the subscription service. This led to Kurtzman being brought on, at which point he added two more episodes to help setup his vision for where the show should go.
  
• Season 02 - This felt like a transitional series from start to finish. It's plot line was incredibly confusing to me. It did, however, manage to set up not just the future of DIS but also the upcoming SNW show. It was Kurtzman laying down the foundation for which he wants to build out Trek. He had to address some (admittedly) poor canonical choices from Season 01, bridge the gap that would bring DIS out of 2200s and into 3000s, reintroduce Pike's crew formally, and develop a set of characters that were never envisioned to last more than a season.
  
• Season 03 - Finally, we've moved past Kurtzman setting everything up. The only thing left is to establish the new setting. New actors are brought in (Book, Grey, and Adira), which filled out the cast more comfortably. Another major change this season was that of (future) Captain Burnham. They took the opportunity to have her time away from Discovery's crew served as a medium for which her character grew. This isn't shown on screen, of course, but we are exposed to the results of her character's growth. This sets the character up for her placement into the more traditional lead-role of starship captain.
• Season 04 - The most recent season is the first to be free of larger-scale production burdens. It didn't worry about establishing new settings, cleaning up canon, or anything of the sort. It's focused on plot and character development as one would expect from any show! That's not to say its pure perfection, but I do think that level of focus is seen overall this season.

This is all opinionated, of course. It does not disregard other views or criticisms held towards the show. I do believe this perspective is worth discussing amongst Trekkies, though. Makes you ponder what could've been!

 

[The Wormhole]

This led to Kurtzman being brought on, at which point he added two more episodes to help setup his vision for where the show should go.

That's not why the two extra episodes where added. Originally, the story of The Vulcan Hello and Battle of the Binary Stars were supposed to be shown as flashbacks spread out over the course of the first half of the season. However, they began realizing that inserting flashbacks into the episodes actually hurt the narrative flow of those episodes, and to make matters more difficult, CBS wanted Harry Mudd's Groundhog Day episode to be as standalone as possible and said it couldn't have any flashbacks there, meaning they had one less episode to try and squeeze the flashback scenes into. Finally it was decided, there's enough material here to fill two episodes, let's just tell this story as a two-part premiere instead, and thus two extra episodes were added to accommodate that.

 

[Daddy Todd]

That's not why the two extra episodes where added. Originally, the story of The Vulcan Hello and Battle of the Binary Stars were supposed to be shown as flashbacks spread out over the course of the first half of the season. However, they began realizing that inserting flashbacks into the episodes actually hurt the narrative flow of those episodes, and to make matters more difficult, CBS wanted Harry Mudd's Groundhog Day episode to be as standalone as possible and said it couldn't have any flashbacks there, meaning they had one less episode to try and squeeze the flashback scenes into. Finally it was decided, there's enough material here to fill two episodes, let's just tell this story as a two-part premiere instead, and thus two extra episodes were added to accommodate that.

I've never heard this narrative before. Where does it come from?

I always assumed CBS wanted a 2-hour movie of the week to run on regular CBS to "tease" the new series, but they only ended premiering half if it on their network, in an effort to force viewers to subscribe to their streaming channel to catch the end. I also don't think the bits were ever intended to belong to other episodes. So, what's your source for that assertion?

 

[The Wormhole]

I've never heard this narrative before. Where does it come from?

I always assumed CBS wanted a 2-hour movie of the week to run on regular CBS to "tease" the new series, but they only ended premiering half if it on their network, in an effort to force viewers to subscribe to their streaming channel to catch the end. I also don't think the bits were ever intended to belong to other episodes. So, what's your source for that assertion?

It's one of those stories that gets repeated so often, I've forgotten where it originated. Though some facts which lead me to believe in it are:
-The press release for many many actors only featured in those two episode has them listed as "recurring." Probably at the time they signed on their episodes were meant to be spread out over the season, making them recurring characters. Chris Obi (T'Kuvma) in particular talked about being in "many episodes."
-Likewise, some interviews done when production started indicated the show's story would alternate between Disco and the Shenzhou, though in the end the Shenzhou only shows up for five episodes. And of those five, in one the ship was an abandoned wreck and two were actually the Mirror Shenzhou.
-A lot of interviews with actors, writers and producers done in 2017 confusingly refer to Vulcan Hello/Battle of the Binary Stars and Context is for Kings as "the pilot."
-This one is pure opinion, but it seems rather odd for a series premiere to not include a majority of the main cast and not even feature the show's titular starship.

 

[Lord Garth]

Wherever you stand on Discovery, whenever they eventually make the Disco version of Chaos On the Bridge, it'll be interesting to watch.

I've always held a fairly middle of the road opinion on DIS. Some of the criticisms I agree with, but for the most part I feel that the show has been one of the most dynamic and receptive I've ever seen. I think I'm largely forgiving of most issues due to just how crazy production has been from the start. To highlight what I mean:

• Season 01 - Due to production issues, this season feels out of place today. Originally, DIS was meant to be an anthology show. Each season would have a new cast or focus on the star trek universe. I think it was initially viewed as a "lets just do something with this IP already" by CBS. Once CBS All Access plans began ramping up, it became evident that Star Trek was a great pillar show for the subscription service. This led to Kurtzman being brought on, at which point he added two more episodes to help setup his vision for where the show should go.
  
• Season 02 - This felt like a transitional series from start to finish. It's plot line was incredibly confusing to me. It did, however, manage to set up not just the future of DIS but also the upcoming SNW show. It was Kurtzman laying down the foundation for which he wants to build out Trek. He had to address some (admittedly) poor canonical choices from Season 01, bridge the gap that would bring DIS out of 2200s and into 3000s, reintroduce Pike's crew formally, and develop a set of characters that were never envisioned to last more than a season.
  
• Season 03 - Finally, we've moved past Kurtzman setting everything up. The only thing left is to establish the new setting. New actors are brought in (Book, Grey, and Adira), which filled out the cast more comfortably. Another major change this season was that of (future) Captain Burnham. They took the opportunity to have her time away from Discovery's crew served as a medium for which her character grew. This isn't shown on screen, of course, but we are exposed to the results of her character's growth. This sets the character up for her placement into the more traditional lead-role of starship captain.
• Season 04 - The most recent season is the first to be free of larger-scale production burdens. It didn't worry about establishing new settings, cleaning up canon, or anything of the sort. It's focused on plot and character development as one would expect from any show! That's not to say its pure perfection, but I do think that level of focus is seen overall this season.

This is all opinionated, of course. It does not disregard other views or criticisms held towards the show. I do believe this perspective is worth discussing amongst Trekkies, though. Makes you ponder what could've been!

This sums it up. I now think of Season 1 as "Early Discovery", Season 2 as "Transitional Discovery", and Season 3+ as "Discovery Proper". Bryan Fuller may have created it, but it's Michelle Paradise's show.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Wherever you stand on Discovery, whenever they eventually make the Disco version of Chaos On the Bridge, it'll be interesting to watch.

Yep. Soooo much behind the scenes strife, Bryan Fuller leaving right after conceptualising the show, firing showrunners for being abusive to staff eventually leading to Kurtzman himself stepping up to be showrunner during season 2, hiring and firing writers immediately (one for using the n-word even though he was supposedly just recounting words said to him) and the sheer insanity of the writers not even knowing what Star Trek they could and could not reference in the production of their prequel show... and season 4 being made under the weight of Covid 19 restrictions causing endless delays and possibly last-minute rewrites (some have speculated seemingly random bridge crew changes are the result of isolation periods)

Big oof.

 

[StarMan]

Fuller leaving will always be an irritating "what if?" - particularly in where he would've taken the character of Burnham.

 

[shapeshifter]

An explanation on what happened with N. Myer's series and his exiting the Producer stable with no reason given.

 

[The Wormhole]

hiring and firing writers immediately (one for using the n-word even though he was supposedly just recounting words said to him)

And more relevant, he is black himself. And he raised a good point, given he was the only black person in the writer's room at the time, who was he making uncomfortable by using that word?

 

[plynch]

All it takes is one person who says he or she was uncomfortable. Gets you at least some diversity reeducation. Discomfort is very, very bad.

I have wondered a lot how mean the meanie showrunners were.

Like really, what words, facial gestures, body movements they used, and whether I would consider them that mean. We all have different tolerances. The show was going in a good direction in early S2.

 

[F. King Daniel]

And more relevant, he is black himself. And he raised a good point, given he was the only black person in the writer's room at the time, who was he making uncomfortable by using that word?

It certainly came across as a very weird situation. Perhaps there was more to it, but I've no idea. Far as I've always been taught, they can use that word however they like.

 

[The Wormhole]

Like really, what words, facial gestures, body movements they used, and whether I would consider them that mean. We all have different tolerances. The show was going in a good direction in early S2.

Rumor is Harberts and Berg actually beat up one of the other writers right there in the writer's room. If true, their firing was very justified.

 

[plynch]

That is hard to believe. Not that I know them, but truly beating someone up, I mean punching, kicking, pummeling? Seems farfetched.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Season 04 - The most recent season is the first to be free of larger-scale production burdens.

Season 4 still had COVID restrictions to deal with and they had to learn to use new VFX technology...

It's chaos from start to finish... and as you say, it still could have been much, much worse.

 

[DigificWriter]

Far as I've always been taught, they can use that word however they like.

Slurs are still slurs, and still offensive, even if/when they're being used by the same people against whom they're most commonly directed.

 

[XCV330]

Rumor is Harberts and Berg actually beat up one of the other writers right there in the writer's room. If true, their firing was very justified.

It's hard to believe though. If it really was a physical assault and got hushed and paid off, the other studios would have heard about it, and really you can't sign an NDA to cover up a felony. Someone would have talked. No studio would have come near either of them for years. But they're still working together at NBC.

 

[plynch]

I’ve always assumed it was yelling and berating. If anyone has actual knowledge, I’d like to know more. Because nosey.

 

[Vger23]

I don't know that I agree that DSC could have been "worse" without the chaos.




But I definitely believe it had the potential to be "better" without the chaos.

 

[plynch]

I think the premise is that with the chaos staying as it was, execution was decent and could have been far worse because… chaos.

I wish the two producers hadn’t been abusive and fired. It was an intriguing show for a little while. Ymmv

 

[eschaton]

Fuller leaving will always be an irritating "what if?" - particularly in where he would've taken the character of Burnham.

Nowhere at all I would guess. Around the same time he was fired from Discovery he was also fired from American Gods (only got to produce the first season) and let go from two shows which were in the early stages of production (Amazing Stories was one of them...can't remember the other). He's done absolutely nothing at all since then, though he's supposedly working on stuff again. Maybe he's become toxic in Hollywood. But he went so quickly from golden boy to pariah I suspect there was some issue with substance abuse and/or mental health, because competent people don't normally have such a big professional meltdown, even when they take on more than they can manage as he did.

For the record, he was fired before a single scene of Discovery was filmed, though apparently some aspects of the first two episodes reflect his vision for the series. Large portions of what became Season 1, including the mycelial network and Lorca being from the MU originated after he left.

I’ve always assumed it was yelling and berating. If anyone has actual knowledge, I’d like to know more. Because nosey.

Accusations were verbal, not physical abuse. They were fired right around the time Episode 5 of Season 2 was finished. The show went on a production hiatus at that time. I suspect they retooled the season arc heavily, making the decision to cast Ethan Peck as Spock (Spock was originally supposed to only appear as a child) and creating the whole Control arc rather than the spiritual/woo aspect that Berg and Harbets were originally going for. Likely CBS pulped the original arc so they no longer got story credit/didn't have to pay them.