No, I'm handsome and interesting.
Well I'm handsome at any rate.
Handsome on the inside.
Deep inside.
Give Nero credit!
- Thread starter Norrin Radd
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Well I'm handsome at any rate.
Handsome on the inside.
Deep inside.
Why should I give Nero credit for pulling a Homer?
1) Dr. Soran was a character of depth and complexity.
2) Dr. Soran destroyed an entire solar system. Nero just destroyed a planet.
And now we cover why Soran is better than Nero. Give me a few minutes to slap together something about why Kruge is better than Nero...
I really enjoyed Nero as a villain, and for my money, he's the only good ST movie villain aside from Chang in TUC (although I haven't seen III or V, so I am open to the possibility that perhaps there is an antagonist of interest in those films, which I intend to watch when I get the chance).
But Nero! They did a good job with him, taking a simple man who was driven over the edge by a horrible disaster, and Eric Bana's performance really sells the character. And I have to say, that "Hi, Christopher. I'm Nero." is one of the best lines in Star Trek for me given the circumstances and delivery.
But Nero! They did a good job with him, taking a simple man who was driven over the edge by a horrible disaster, and Eric Bana's performance really sells the character. And I have to say, that "Hi, Christopher. I'm Nero." is one of the best lines in Star Trek for me given the circumstances and delivery.
And they did it all with 5 minutes of screen time.
I will agree that his motivation is a little weird. He seems to be blaming Spock... for being the only person who tried to help at all? For being late? For doing what the people of Romulus couldn't do for themselves? They couldn't even get out of the way?
That said, they sold it well enough that it wasn't bothering me during the movie, only after. During the movie, he was scary and bad-ass - but I wanted more of him. He had some great moments, but never really added up to much.
That said, they sold it well enough that it wasn't bothering me during the movie, only after. During the movie, he was scary and bad-ass - but I wanted more of him. He had some great moments, but never really added up to much.
I just saw the movie again today (that's five times and counting now, if anyone's keeping score), and my opinion of Nero hasn't changed. From my Facebook review of the film:
I scratch my head when I read people can't grasp Nero's motives given how they were spelled out via Spock's mind meld with young Kirk. Perhaps because its not front loaded in the movie? We actually are given more information than we got with Khan in Trek II and a visual to boot.
Kirk didn't kill Marla (she herself chose that life not we're told this by Meyer), yet Khan irrationally blamed Kirk.
Spock tried to help Romulas failed doing so it makes a kind of sense Nero in grief would blame the guy for failing to fix in time what he promised to do. Couldn't be any more spelled out.
Sharr
Kirk didn't kill Marla (she herself chose that life not we're told this by Meyer), yet Khan irrationally blamed Kirk.
Spock tried to help Romulas failed doing so it makes a kind of sense Nero in grief would blame the guy for failing to fix in time what he promised to do. Couldn't be any more spelled out.
Sharr
The ironic part about nero is that the supernova will still happen in the 24rd century..i highly doubt his time travel back in time will prevent that one lol.
Therefore romulus will still crack n half, and this time around since new!Spock will be pissed he's just gonna say f*ck it let them die...
which i think is the stupid part about nero, long story short.
Therefore romulus will still crack n half, and this time around since new!Spock will be pissed he's just gonna say f*ck it let them die...
which i think is the stupid part about nero, long story short.
I grasp them. I just find them odd.
That makes way more sense to me. Kirk's part in her death is way more active than Spock's part in ... whoever-she-was's death.
I guess it makes a *kind* of sense... but not the real kind of sense. I guess any kind of reaction's possible, but this seems a little like visiting a firefighter's house and killing his whole family because he didn't stop your house from burning down. A firefighter from another city, who drove all that way to try to help you.
It never threw me out of the movie, but I think it could have easily been made a little more watertight. I think a scenario where Spock Prime saved Vulcan *instead* of Romulus - Spock Prime was forced to choose one over the other - makes Nero's reaction more understandable.
Norrin Radd
Vice Admiral
I don't recall billions actually dying. But then I've only seen the movie once and that was enough, so...
By the end of 3, Kirk had HAD. ENOUGH. OF. KRUUUUUGGGGGGEEEE!
But Nero just left him wanting more.
We in know way can be sure of that. It wasn't just Romulus that was threatened so the problem does need to be fixed, she just was the first and I assume only planet to be destroyed. Plus old Spock's still around and I would assume inclined to do his best to prevent it from happening or using to encourage reunification at long last and move the Romulans so place else. Hard to say for sure.
Oh I might have made it clearer that maybe Spock Prime and Nero knew eachother at one point in time so it was more personal.
From a cracked minds pov you don't need "good reasons to hate a large group of people and want to go out and kill them, you just need any reason at all." Its not as if Romulans aren't totally paranoid and xenophobic species who hide their identities from the entire galaxy or anything... why would they overreact or anything?
Sharr
I actually felt sorry for this guy, but I think the Borg has him beat when it comes to causing the most suffering. They have assimilated and killed billions upon billions.
I wondered, why didnt this guy just go to Romulas, give them the advanced technology then find a way to warp back in time. It has been shown in Star Trek that time travel is possible and surely this guy has heard about Kirk going back in time when they went around the sun or when the Ent E went back in time in FC. I would just help my fellow romulans develop then find a way to go back to my wife before the planet is detroyed and get her off and live a happy life.
I wondered, why didnt this guy just go to Romulas, give them the advanced technology then find a way to warp back in time. It has been shown in Star Trek that time travel is possible and surely this guy has heard about Kirk going back in time when they went around the sun or when the Ent E went back in time in FC. I would just help my fellow romulans develop then find a way to go back to my wife before the planet is detroyed and get her off and live a happy life.
I agree. Nero was the biggest frakkin' disappointment in what was otherwise an excellent movie. He wasn't bad, I guess, but certainly not memorable.
The problem is, the revenge motive is both generic and petty. Let me be callous and admit that I don't give a flying frak if the guy's wife died. And he really thinks that's a good enough reason to condemn billions of innocent people to death? That's not just evil, it's worse than evil - it's DUMB.
Motives are better when they are specific, not generic, and grandiose, not petty. When I heard that Romulans were the bad guys, I figured it had something to do with their epic fight with the Vulcans over fundamental issues of human errr humanoid existence. Something big, something worth Vulcan getting blowed up over. Nero could have been a Klingon, a Ferengi, anyone. Why did he need to be a Romulan at all?
Oh well, maybe next movie, huh?
I agree. Nero was the biggest frakkin' disappointment in what was otherwise an excellent movie. He wasn't bad, I guess, but certainly not memorable.
The problem is, the revenge motive is both generic and petty. Let me be callous and admit that I don't give a flying frak if the guy's wife died. She wasn't a character who was realized in the story - how could I care? Did the screenwriters not realize that non-characters can't win the audience's sympathy? And Nero really thinks that's a good enough reason to condemn billions of innocent people to death? That's not just evil, it's worse than evil - it's DUMB.
Motives are better when they are specific, not generic, and grandiose, not petty. When I heard that Romulans were the bad guys, I figured it had something to do with their epic fight with the Vulcans over fundamental issues of human errr humanoid existence. Something big, something worth Vulcan getting blowed up over. Nero could have been a Klingon, a Ferengi, anyone. Why did he need to be a Romulan at all?
Oh well, maybe next movie, huh?
Nero had the advantage of surprise when he blew up Vulcan. Our Heroes rallied and headed him off at the pass when he tried the same stunt on Earth. So Our Heroes can claim to still be smarter than Nero.
But yeah, it's poor writing to expose the reality that even dumbshit villains can wreak havok in the short term simply because they strike first. That's true in real life but shouldn't be true in fiction because fiction should be "fair," where real life is cruel, random and stupid. I don't want to pay ten bucks to be reminded that life sucks.
I found it hard to feel sorry for a guy that killed billions of innocent people.
Yep. That's the problem - there's no excuse for that, and no way to be sympathetic.
His motives are obvious. They are simply dumb. Fictional characters can have motives that "make sense" without them being motives that anyone should bother to write into a story, when better, more unique, more interesting motives are possible.
This is a repeat of why the Cylons were dumb on Ron Moore's BSG. Blerg. That's not a problem I hoped to see repeated so blatantly so soon.
The saving grace is of course that Nero is dead and will have no further role in the ongoing story. And the whole thing did knock Spock for an interesting loop - perhaps that was the real reason it all happened. It's set up for Spock's ongoing character arc. Let's see how the emotionless cold fish deals with this shit. I suspect that's also the motive behind the relationship with Uhura.
Sure. If Nero is a fucking moron. I just don't care to bother with stories about morons. I'd rather see the writers try harder and come up with non-moron characters to tell stories about. Maybe my standards are just too high.
The real difference is that the Borg were not morons when they caused havok. They were simply fulfilling their innate natures. That's an ok story - nobody has to be dumb. The Borg are acting uniquely like themselves, and doing what is "smart" for them. If they want to blow up Vulcan, then I'd be cool with that.
Does anybody feel like having a great villain in this particular movie would be a waste? There was already so much fantastic characterization going on that a simple villain is all that was needed.
There wasn't really room to develop a new one; and I'm thinking nobody would have cared much or paid attention. It would have been dull compared to the new characters.
There wasn't really room to develop a new one; and I'm thinking nobody would have cared much or paid attention. It would have been dull compared to the new characters.
Thing is, Nero's motivation is at least as fully fleshed-out as Khan's was, from the standpoint of the respective movies themselves. Sharr Khan made the good point that we never saw Marla McGivers in TWOK, so she's no more a realized character than Nero's wife. Likewise we didn't see Khan actually get marooned, but we're assuming the history between Khan and Kirk to be enough motivation. There are many good reasons why Khan's a far better villain than Nero, but motivational believability, IMO, isn't one of them. It is generic, it is petty, and that's the point. Why is Khan's generic petty vengeance so much better than Nero's? Also, a quick aside... speaking of protagonist stupidity, but can the crew of Reliant just not count how many planets are in a system?
No, it's crackpot madness manifesting as evil. All this guy has left (in his mind) is his rage at Spock and the Federation for letting his world, and his wife, die. This happens to real people, they just usually don't wind up back in time with weapons that can wipe out their perceived enemies.
Poor writing or just unexpected writing? If you really wanted to, you could read this as a take on 9/11... except with a sense of optimism instead of nihilisti. You're not being paid ten bucks to be reminded that life sucks, you're paying ten bucks to be reminded that when life does suck - say you grow up with no dad, your mom and 99.5% (at least) of your people are massacred by a madman or your world is blowed up by a random space anomaly along with your wife and kids - you have choices. You can either let it take control of you a la Nero or Jim Kirk pre-Pike, or you can band together with others and start to heal from the experience a la Spock with Uhura. Or at least, that's my take.
