News Georgiou Section 31 Series officially announced:

Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by eschaton, Jan 14, 2019.

  1. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Captain

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    Ah, yes, the Federation Utopia, where the only alien concept to its enlightened humanism is apparently, redemption.
     
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  2. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think MU Georgiou is looking for redemption. She's just a pragmatist, and realizes that in the job she took in the Prime Universe, she can't do all the huge-scale ruthless stuff that the Terran Emperor normally has to do to gain and maintain power. She has remarked about stuff she did in the MU, in a matter-of-fact way without any hint of remorse.

    Kor
     
  3. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Captain

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    I'm thinking more of in an external observer manner. its as though from peoples minds that hottakes of characters should be branded on their chests like scarlet letters, never to be allowed to fall off, you know, unless less they happen to say order and carry out the execution of hundreds of innocent civilians on Organia. Hey, Kor, feel any remorse for those orders?
     
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  4. captainkirk

    captainkirk Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Kor was the villain in that episode. We weren't supposed to be rooting for him.
     
  5. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Captain

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    Was he a villain in DS9? Did he show any remorse at all for all the war crimes he committed in the past? Or was it just accepted that what he did in that was was a different place and a different time?
     
  6. captainkirk

    captainkirk Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    He was a slightly senile old man who had put his hatred of the Federation behind him, but Sisko still did not want Dax to join his revenge quest. What has Georgiou done this season? She's bragged about past genocidal action, suggested more genocide, and take pleasure in the suffering of her enemies. I'm all for villain redemption, but she hasn't shown any signs of it.
     
  7. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Captain

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    I asked a question and you moved the goalposts and deflected. None of what you stated is relevant to the question I asked. Try again.
     
  8. captainkirk

    captainkirk Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    How exactly? You asked if he was a villain in DS9, I said that he wasn't because he was now a century older and had moved past wanting war with the Federation. When hostilities did break out, he decided to work with Worf to find the Sword of Khaless. It wasn't just that they accepted the things he did in the past were from a different time, it was that he demonstrated he was a changed man.

    Now you keep ignoring the points I make about Georgiou and are for some reason trying to make this about Kor for some reason. Can you refute the points I made about how she still sees mass murder as a good solution to all problems and enjoys inflicting pain?
     
  9. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Captain

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    And how many acts of mass murder has Georgiou committed since arriving from the MU? Its not like she hasn't had at least one opportunity.
     
  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Different cultures and different upbringing. Here on Earth, in some cultures the index and middle fingers held up, aka the peace sign, can be construed as an insult. I have worked with people who have stated "I was so mad I could rip his F***ing head off!" People express themselves in different ways.

    Wasn't aware we were supposed to be cheering Georgiou on either...
     
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  11. captainkirk

    captainkirk Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And yet she's starring in her own show. I thought Star Trek was supposed to be about optimism and showing the best in humanity.
     
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  12. Alan Roi

    Alan Roi Commodore Captain

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    Trek is about a whole lot of things. Its also been chocked full of cautionary tales as well and offered up of the worst in humanity as well. Even in TNG, there was an episode where a character attempting genocide was forgiven before even the end of the episode.
     
  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    What better way than to showcase our worst sides and how we can grow beyond them. As Spock noted after observing the Mirror Kirk they were the "very flower of humanity."

    I love optimism but it isn't optimistic to deny redemption from anyone.
     
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  14. captainkirk

    captainkirk Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But like I keep repeating, she still has way too much bloodlust to be a protagonist. I know in this day and age people love their Breaking Bad and other similar shows, but I never got the appeal of following awful people around and seeing just their stories.
    Like I said above, I'm all for villain redemption, but it has to be in the right place. I was so disappointed in how Krall's story ended in STB because that felt very pessimistic. He's given the chance to right his wrongs, has a moment of literal reflection, and then instead of pushing Kirk to safety and sacrificing himself to undo his mistake he just decides to go all stabby. How depressing is that as a statement about humanity?

    There is room for a well-told story about the redemption of Georgiou, but nothing in season 2 showed any hint of it. That's my biggest issue at the moment.
     
  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Seeing as how we have a whole other season I ain't stressing about it.

    Human beings are capable of great evil. They can be faced with their darkest tasks and regard them with little caring. Krall had his moment of reflection and the denied it for the sake of his hate. We are all capable of doing the same.
     
  16. arch101

    arch101 Commodore Commodore

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    Is it me or are a whole lot more people excited about a potential Captain Pike series than are even remotely interested in a Section 31 series?
     
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  17. captainkirk

    captainkirk Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think that's definitely the case. This season feels like it was supposed to set up the Section 31 series, hence it being announced before the season even airs, and now they're starting to acknowledge the demand for a Pike series.
     
  18. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    I've always wanted a 23rd-century cloak and dagger Starfleet Intelligence series.
    I just didn't want it to be about Section 31.

    Kor
     
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  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Probably so. Section 31 is far more controversial while Pike is a safe bet.
     
  20. Soong-type Android

    Soong-type Android Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Well a Pike series would more in line with the Gene Roddenberry traditional concept of Star Trek as being about a Utopian future and space exploration whereas a Section 31 series would be about espionage and the antithesis of everything Star Trek is supposed to be about and represent. Still, on the other hand it wouldn't be another prequel or be encumbered by canon restrictions.