I've heard people say that the way Jar Jar talks is an exaggerated caricature of a Jamaican accent.
Spoilers George Lucas blamed for Episode VIII?!
- Thread starter Qonundrum
- Start date
What stereotypical clown act is Finn doing in either TFA or TLJ and when? I certainly missed it.
Same here. I can see the complaints, but watching the film it pretty much is lost on me.
Part of it was that he was played (both physically and vocally) by Ahmed Best. It was argueably* the first time that a black actor truly was a lead in Star Wars.
And he truly, unambiguously, ended up being the clown.
(*Lando is a lead in ROTJ, but he still had nowhere near the screentime of Jar Jar.)
According to Best, it was his attempt to sound like a toddler.
(I can’t do the ‘skip to time’ thing. The bit about the voice is around two minutes in.)
I guess that's what you do when your character's lines are partially taken from the Olsen kids on Full House.
Err....yeah, Finn was an irritant to other characters. Adding to that, he--like Jar-Jar--was never a one of the true movers of the plot, , and screams while other characters are displaying a range of other emotions not boiled down to...screaming.
...but this is an American film creation/production, where the people behind it are all too familiar with the real, well taught history of slaves and/or runaway slaves being named by white slave owners and/or benefactors, respectively, which is far too close to Finn--a black character--serving as both runaway and with no identity/ability to control his destiny--who has to be named by his non-black savior. Again, as a film creation/production with its country of origin having this particular event in its history (one that still brings up raw emotions to generations far removed from their enslaved ancestors), if anyone behind the film actually cared about not even coming within a country mile of such material, then Finn's origin and development would have been presented in any of a million other ways. But he was not.
It was said about Jar Jar starting in 1999 (as soon as TPM was released), because his behavior and manner of speaking sound exactly like African American and Jamaican stereotypes in print and film. One would think that in a film series where the people behind it once created completely alien characters and dialect patterns not based on humans (e.g, Chewbacca, Jabba, Bossk, Ugnaughts and others sound like nothing anyone has ever heard), that Jar Jar had to be pull influences from a well known and long, deservedly condemned stereotype of real people.
All of that "weesa" and "okie-day" crap was like watching 1930s short subjects.
I'd have to see/hear that. He doesn't sound anything like a Jamaican, who speak English in an accent that you can still hear the British.
And since he's alien, he's derived from from a multitude of inspirations. The artists at Lucasfim create a couple dozen Maquettes. Lucas come down and picks the sculpts he likes, and the artists work from there. Then they create a digital version, and also build the costume. Ahmed Best created the walk, mannerisms, and accent of Jar Jar. It was only in later production that it was decided to replace (in most of his scenes, but not all) with the animated character. If you see the two side by side, they're identical.
Even if he has some similarities to obscure 1930s cartoons featuring exxagerated blacks, I would never accuse Lucas(or the artists, or Ahmed Best) of racism, and/or is doesn't make it racist.
One of the inspirations for Jar Jar was goofy. Is Goofy a racist caricature?
As for Watto. Is he a greedy Jew? A dirty Italian? Or a sheisty Arab junk dealer?
Watto responds: "I'm Toydaaariiaaan!"
And since he's alien, he's derived from from a multitude of inspirations. The artists at Lucasfim create a couple dozen Maquettes. Lucas come down and picks the sculpts he likes, and the artists work from there. Then they create a digital version, and also build the costume. Ahmed Best created the walk, mannerisms, and accent of Jar Jar. It was only in later production that it was decided to replace (in most of his scenes, but not all) with the animated character. If you see the two side by side, they're identical.
Even if he has some similarities to obscure 1930s cartoons featuring exxagerated blacks, I would never accuse Lucas(or the artists, or Ahmed Best) of racism, and/or is doesn't make it racist.
One of the inspirations for Jar Jar was goofy. Is Goofy a racist caricature?
As for Watto. Is he a greedy Jew? A dirty Italian? Or a sheisty Arab junk dealer?
Watto responds: "I'm Toydaaariiaaan!"
Yes, he only saved Poe and stepped up to inspire a plan to save Rey. No moving at all.
He's was a conditioned soldier, but his emotional development should be completely normal? No, I'm not buying in to this at all. I don't see it as racist, I see him being a former stormtrooper, conditioned to kill and rejecting that conditioning. In any other film, that would be celebrated as heroic. But, no, because he has difficulty in expressing his emotions, because he screams he is a "clown."
Sorry, I must have watched a completely different film.
Its a stereotyped version, with Best simply raising the pitch of his voice, but his delivery and the expressions were seen as a Jamaican racial stereotype from the start for a reason. No one entered theatres in May of 1999 expecting that, hence the shock/reaction.
That does not get around the inspiration, the final approved performance, or the references to OT SW crews being able to create completely alien voices/language in the past (e.g. Bossk, Ugnaughts, Jawas, Chewbacca, Jabba, et al)) without sounding like a racial stereotype (in other words, creating anything going in the direction of stereotype was not unavoidable).
The point is that of all influences one could use (especially one as aware of film history as Lucas), the production put the stamp of approval on one so tied to stereotypes, when they had options (as in the 70s/80s productions).
The only reason another member could bring that up was due to the history of Watto being seen as both a Jewish & Arab stereotype from the start. Were they all wrong? "Looking for something to be offended by?" (as the Ann Coulters of the world would out it) or did the Watto character seem like a stereotype, particularly to members of the group most insulted by it?
Yes, he only saved Poe and stepped up to inspire a plan to save Rey. No moving at all.
Yes, the runaway (slave) who had be named by his non-black savior, (as mentioned days ago, the real life parallel to the experiences of runaway slaves cannot be ignored) and his occupation in the First Order was as a janitor. Yes, of all of the additional occupations of an alleged trained stormtrooper in the F.O., Finn has to be the age-old, Hollywood black male stereotype of unskilled labor. Message received. All of that in between having everyone else lead him around and largely disrespect his thoughts, or desires. His state of being "conditioned to kill" is never fully explored on film; he simply appears to be an ever-panting, ever-sweating man who suddenly decides to run, and never makes the kind of hero's journey in his debut movie like every major character (particularly among the heroic trinity) of the previous two trilogies at that same period.
But he gets to scream, stumble, drink from a filthy water trough with animals, allow some stranger to name him (combined to be a clown), and guess that's part of his being a hero. Perhaps at a Richard Spencer club meeting, but nowhere else.
At this point in time, I'm not sure what your point is. I feel like any perceived "message" is being filtered through prejudgment and assumptions. The conclusion seems foregone, eisegetic rather exegetic.
I don't think he's clownish, though I conceded some clown behavior and the naming as being potential callback to slave history, intentional or not.
Secondly, sanitation was his task on Starkiller. It wasn't his only job or even defined his character.
Finally, I think these are broad strokes of accusations of racism without looking at full context. The conclusion has been made, and anyone who disagrees will be met with scorn. Never mind that people actually enjoyed Finn's character (myself included) or that he did make movement in the story, and in the next chapter, defeated his former owner, to strain your slave analogy to the breaking point.
Pretty much my thoughts exactly.
