Spoilers George Lucas blamed for Episode VIII?!

[Timby]

a walking racial stereotype.

What the fuck.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

In race propaganda in film, black makes were/ are clowns when they--unlike any other character (in what is not a comedy) is not to be taken seriously, where he's not comedy relief, yet he stumbles about, usually setting himself up to be something, but trips his way into an often disregarded, disrespected position (except his one TFA deed--thanks to being in the stereotyped role as a sanitation worker), regularly misspeaks, and the chief character to have others show him up for being a fool. Again and again, Finn is the black clown, not--in what used to be Star Wars character tradition--to be one of the heroic trinity to truly break all bonds of any old self to be a hero--which for TPM Obi-Wan/Anakin/Padme, or ANH Luke/Han/Leia--happened several times over the course of their respective debut film.

You're the one assigning the pejorative "clown" description to his character. In film, he's explicitly called a hero and makes personal sacrifices in the name of friends and his morality.

Methinks you ought to reconsider your own perspective on the character.

 

[fireproof78]

I was looking forward to it too, my only real disappointment was that that was the only scene we got with Phasma.
I'm just glad to see I'm not the only one who disagrees with him.

It's not just you. I'm just waiting for the accusations of being a racist.

What the fuck.

Glad I'm not the only one who has questions.

 

[Trekkin]

This is why your entire responses are so off the mark, and--apparently--determined to defend both sequel trilogy producers decisions and the films sans any understanding of the way black males have been misused in film history. In race propaganda in film, black makes were/ are clowns when they--unlike any other character (in what is not a comedy) is not to be taken seriously, where he's not comedy relief, yet he stumbles about, usually setting himself up to be something, but trips his way into an often disregarded, disrespected position (except his one TFA deed--thanks to being in the stereotyped role as a sanitation worker), regularly misspeaks, and the chief character to have others show him up for being a fool. Again and again, Finn is the black clown, not--in what used to be Star Wars character tradition--to be one of the heroic trinity to truly break all bonds of any old self to be a hero--which for TPM Obi-Wan/Anakin/Padme, or ANH Luke/Han/Leia--happened several times over the course of their respective debut film.

This does not happen to Finn, as his one "moment" is a lightsaber fight where he's so easily outclassed, and ripped into unconsciousness, that it was clear he was there just to be the anger motivator for Rey to fight Ren, but he leaves TFA not truly joining the ranks of a growing hero as seen with the hero trinity of the previous trilogies' debut stories. In TLJ, Finn remains a black clown, as he's shocked into submission by Rose--who subsequently leads him by the nose throughout the entire casino disaster, removing any chance for the Finn character to grow into any sort of character of true self-respect self-determination (like Luke in ESB, or Anakin and/or Padme in AOTC). Even his suicide run is--once again--taken away by Rose, as he cannot even attempt to die a hero.

He's not the decision maker. He's not the true creator--or leader of missions, and as a bone tossed his way (I doubt anyone will get the emphasis on that), he has a pointless fight with Phasma which...no one was looking forward to, since the latter was completely undeveloped in TFA, and Finn as a sci-fi fighting hero does not exist. There's no build-up in a fight between an action figure design who happens to be talking on screen, and a walking racial stereotype.

The reasons are well covered in this thread, but I cannot expect you (and a couple of like-minded members in this thread) to understand Finn being the latest in a long line of racially motivated characters, so you resort to avoiding the matter, sans providing substance for your denials other than "no, its not". You can say "no, its not" until doomsday, but it does not move the needle even an inch toward your side of the matter.



Clearly, he's talking about TFA, which is applicable in a discussion on the Finn character. Being obtuse is not making a point.



Much like what was pointed out above: if Hela says "no, its not" sans any evidence, then, no, its not. Er...yyyeah.....



He's talking about a larger issue, one you do not seem to understand--tokenism at the hands of the Hollywood liberals:



...is what I've said throughout this thread: Hollywood liberals sell themselves as the most progressive, open-minded collective on earth, yet you're never going to see a black character--males in particular--I (in film history's biggest franchise) treated in the same way as whites, not in being a full on black male with self-respect, and self-determination to add his actions to the story in undeniably significant ways as part of steady growth. Moreover, from my own arguments, I've already provided TLJ as evidence of hyper-liberal Kathleen Kennedy erect a Trumpian wall between Finn and Rey in the form of Rose.

Further-



The dominance in is in the form of runaway sanitation worker/stormtrooper Finn so incompetent, that he cannot escape one calamity after another without the help of a series of non-black characters all having a position and/or ability superior to his own. Adding insult to injury, one of his kind rescuers (Poe) gives this runaway his new name. I'm not pretending that the subtext of that entire relationship has no racial stereotyping influence, as TFA was not making any kind of commentary on slavery. This was about the perception of the black male lead. I've already covered how this treatment continues in TLJ.



No. You have ignored a list which easily addressed your East Asian claim, only to create a list not specific to the black male/white female issue of the Star Wars sequel trilogy,(Fate of the Furious, JJ Trek, The Flash), and of course, you skipped over the complaints aimed at the DC Comics/CW TV series Supergirl regarding the lead and the James Olsen character (I've posted reaction video and quotes in the Supergirl threads on this board in the past), and although you mentioned Iris/Barry (which does not fit the specif discussed here), you conveniently pretend the "she's just not right" arguments that were aimed at the Iris character since her first appearance on The Flash. Those who criticized her offered no rational reason for their distaste, leaving the same reason for the torrential flood of the anti-Brooks as Olsen fans: he's "wrong" (especially as a romantic interest for the white heroine) because he's black.

You seem rather desperate to say racism against black males alone and/or involved with white females does not exist, and is not being played out in the Star Wars sequel trilogy.



This from the member with post after post of no evidence to support anything, which leads to...



Mirror shattered into a thousand pieces from the "you're so far gone you cannot even see you are describing yourself" impact of your post.

Welp, I see we’ve reached ‘why aren’t you proving the negative?’, claims of racism, copy+pasting content for the third time, some rather startlingly moved goalposts, “I know you are, said you are...”, my personal three day rule, posts steadily increasing to the size of novels, whataboutism...

And trying to use our own posts bitching about Supergirl as a reference.

I think we might be done. Just an inkling.

I’ll even let you have the last word, if you like: ‘Rose, the Trumpian Wall Between Finn and Rey...”

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

What the fuck.

It's not just you. I'm just waiting for the accusations of being a racist.

You do know you're on TrekBBS, right? This is the same board where people are routinely called anything with an "ist" at the end of it, so if anyone is called a racist, its nothing new around here, yet that's not the case in this discussion.

Glad I'm not the only one who has questions.

The expected response. I'm guessing you would not be a position (racially) to recognize the problem when its served up in typical Hollywood fashion, so there's no real way for you to understand.

In the case of members like Hela--his/hers is a terrible problem of assuming to be in a position of authority in denying the racially motivated creation of Finn as if he or she has any sort of insight into the issue. Instead, there's two or three pages of doing anything other than justifying the denial with more than "nuh-uh! no its not!" which seems to be more about protecting this franchise (and flaming members) than anything else.

 

[Timby]

The expected response. I'm guessing you would not be a position (racially) to recognize the problem when its served up in typical Hollywood fashion, so there's no real way for you to understand.

This isn't fucking Reddit. You don't get to make baited statements without backing them up.

Continue this line of discussion with something better than "no u."

 

[fireproof78]

The expected response. I'm guessing you would not be a position (racially) to recognize the problem when its served up in typical Hollywood fashion, so there's no real way for you to understand.

In the case of members like Hela--his/hers is a terrible problem of assuming to be in a position of authority in denying the racially motivated creation of Finn as if he or she has any sort of insight into the issue. Instead, there's two or three pages of doing anything other than justifying the denial with more than "nuh-uh! no its not!" which seems to be more about protecting this franchise (and flaming members) than anything else.

No, that's not it. It's questioning an asserted position without the same reference points. Instead of making accusations, please provide examples, and other sources, or don't be surprised that the arguments are not being taken seriously.

Because, right now, all I see is an assertion with little in the way of primary sources supporting it. So, yeah, the internet. But, it's hard for me to take seriously when "If you can't see it you're part of the problem!" when I want to know the rationale behind the argument.

 

[Trekkin]

No, that's not it. It's questioning an asserted position without the same reference points. Instead of making accusations, please provide examples, and other sources, or don't be surprised that the arguments are not being taken seriously.

Because, right now, all I see is an assertion with little in the way of primary sources supporting it. So, yeah, the internet. But, it's hard for me to take seriously when "If you can't see it you're part of the problem!" when I want to know the rationale behind the argument.

If your curious, this is the Indiewire article that Trek_God quote mined earlier.

http://www.indiewire.com/2015/12/hyper-tokenism-the-force-awakens-while-the-black-man-sleeps-162287/

It is genuinely an interesting read, and not at all what it’s been presented as. He’s ‘criticising’ in the sense that people write critiques from the perspective of auteur theory, feminist theory etc. It’s examining one thing from one specific angle, not attempting a ‘review’ per se.

For the lazy: Seewood basically says that whilst TFA has improved upon the OT and PT when it comes to diversity, people shouldn’t settle for it as the best representation they’re gonna get. They should keep pushing. Because privilege is (and will) be a massive impediment on ‘natural’ progress.

The only time he bring up some of Finn’s ‘cliched’ character traits, he doesn’t claim that Finn’s only an Uncle Tom, or ‘walking cliche’ or whatnot. His uses the traits to show that he doesn’t think Finn had as much effort put into making his character consistent, or develop smoothly. Because the writers settled for ‘making sure he’s not a walking caricature’ and signed off.

A few other critics have noted the lack of dramatic agency of the Finn character in nominal configurations such as: his inability to comprehend “droid speak”, “Wookie speak” and other languages that come easily to the White characters; inability to pilot spacecraft; lack of weapons knowledge even though he was a Stormtrooper; and finally his lack of knowledge of “the resistance” when in fact as a Stormtrooper he would have known whom the Empire considered its enemies. These nominal inabilities are contradicted by Finn’s ability to wield a light saber with no training; his courage in various battles; his decision to leave the Empire; his choice to return to participate with the rebels of the resistance.

Seewood’s main issue is really with the ending. Finn disappears for the entire last 15 minutes, and the ‘ultimate’ dramatic finale for the overall story (Luke’s map) is a white woman meeting her destiny, and bringing back the Big Good white saviour (Luke) to reset the status quo to the OT-levels.

Which is why I’m very curious as to what he thought of TLJ.

Oh, and he’s wasn’t fussed about the marketing making out Finn to be a Jedi. He thought it was exploitive. Basically the feminist critiques of how Rey was presented in the marketing, but the details inverted.

 

[fireproof78]

If your curious, this is the Indiewire article that Trek_God quote mined earlier.

http://www.indiewire.com/2015/12/hyper-tokenism-the-force-awakens-while-the-black-man-sleeps-162287/

It is genuinely an interesting read, and not at all what it’s been presented as. He’s ‘criticising’ in the sense that people write critiques from the perspective of auteur theory, feminist theory etc. It’s examining one thing from one specific angle, not attempting a ‘review’ per se.

For the lazy: Seewood basically says that whilst TFA has improved upon the OT and PT when it comes to diversity, people shouldn’t settle for it as the best representation they’re gonna get. They should keep pushing. Because privilege is (and will) be a massive impediment on ‘natural’ progress.

The only time he bring up some of Finn’s ‘cliched’ character traits, he doesn’t claim that Finn’s only an Uncle Tom, or ‘walking cliche’ or whatnot. His uses the traits to show that he doesn’t think Finn had as much effort put into making his character consistent, or develop smoothly. Because the writers settled for ‘making sure he’s not a walking caricature’ and signed off.



His main issue is really with the ending. Finn sits out the entire 15 minutes, and the ‘ultimate’ dramatic finale for the overall story in the film is all about the white woman finding her destiny and finding what that movie presents as the Big Good white saviour (Luke,) to save them all from a white threat.

Which is why I’m curious what he thought of TLJ.

Ok, I can see were the author is coming from but I agree about TLJ. I don't think Finn quite hits the same beats as he does in TFA and I think he has far more agency in his choices.

 

[Prax]

I shouldn't.

I will.
I can't speak for TLJ, but in TFA, those stereotypes/tropes, or whatever you might call them, are certainly present. They're easy to ignore because he's such a likable character. Are they "racist"?
Who can say

Here goes:

Finn is the main comic relief character of the film, and much of that comedy is at his expense. He's portrayed as earnest, but bumbling, with added slapstick, like Jar Jar, but charming. Besides Finn, the comedy that comes from other characters, like Han, bb8, Kylo, etc, is more incidental, like the OT, except more one liners.

We start with Finn in the assault on Jakku. He freezes up, we assume he's experiencing a moral dilemma. He gets in trouble for this. Kylo Ren, to the Stormtroopers, a terrifying demonic space wizard, takes a keen notice of Finn, who notices that he's been spotted by his dark leader. Phasma also noticed, she reprimands him, tells him to put his mask back on, asks for his weapon, then sends him to psyche eval(or something like that). These troopers are slaves, taken as younglings, indoctrinated, and raised into high tech warriors. Finn is a slave in a slave army.

He now wishes to flee. He frees Poe, because he needs someone to fly the ship that will allow his escape. Poe first thinks he's an undercover resistance ally, then realizes he's a real Stormtrooper. Poe asks "Why are you doing this?" Finn lies "Because it's the right thing to do." Poe sees through this and says "You need a pilot."

They escape on a ship. Finn enthusiastically annihilates dozens? Hundreds? of his still-enslaved brethren, and oppressors alike.

Poe gives him his name(And names him FINN! Was Tobey too on the nose?)

On Jakku, Finn, dying of thirst, comedically runs around frantically, bumping and banging into everything, looking for water, then dives into trough that a pig is drinking from.

Then he sees a girl in trouble, goes to rescue her. She doesn't need him. Then, bb8 tells Rey "Bleep, bloop ba doop, beep bleep." Rey springs into action. Finn is terrified and runs away. She hits him, accuses him of being a thief, points her stick at him laying on the ground, then bb8 frickin shocks him.

What does he do? He lies(unconvincingly, like all comedies). He tells her he's part of the Resistance. BB8 drops the charges?

Then come the Tie fighters. Finn, terrified, grabs Rey's hand over and over, running to and fro. She's like "what are you doing, you frenetic freak?" She's calm, fearless, knows the danger, and knows what to do.
Finn needs another pilot. "You've got one!"

So far Finn is sort of a frantic scared rabbit, always sweating, breathing heavy, excitable, bumbling, and makes Rey look uberheroic.

On the Falcon, after the escape, Rey is trying to fix something. More comedy ensues with Finn being a moron who's still acting all wild, while Rey is trying to get him to hand her a simple tool. He's become infatuated with Rey, and tries to get BB8 to not reveal his lie.

The get caught in a tractor beam, Finn frantically runs to the cockpit, climbing all over Rey, to her annoyance, and the audience's amusement.

He continues the lie with Han Solo, who sees through it.

The Octopus monsters grab Finn, drag him around the ship kicking and screaming. Rey saves him.

They go to Maz. Finn is scared and wants to run. Rey can't agree, and let's him go. FO attacks, and Maz sends Finn with a knife out into a gun fight. He's beaten with a police bataan, then saved by Han.

Rey is captured, Finn wants to save her, so he lies to the resistance, goes to Starkiller, and...too late, Rey "seems on top of things." At then end, he tries to stand up to Kylo, to protect Rey, gets beaten, burned, AMD whipped in the back. He ends the film in coma. I forgot to mention. Earlier, we learn he's a janitor, and told the Resistance whatever he could to go save Rey.

He spends the film always jumpy, always sweating, always scared. He likes Rey, and wants to be her man, so when he sees her in danger, his courage comes out, which is good, but he never is able to save her. She saves herself, and actually ends up saving him him a number of times.

As if ending up in a coma wasn't bad enough, the final injustice to Finn comes at the end, when he's put into a box. That is, the friend zone box. What Finn desires most, he cannot have.

I'm not interested if these Hollywood tropes are racist or not, but these are the examples off the top of my head, if anyone was seeking examples. I haven't had a chance to see TLJ yet, and don't know how the character was written or directed in that film.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I liked the creative choices for Luke in TLJ, so if Lucas is to 'blame', that would be a good thing.

I wouldn't be shocked if Lucas did like TLJ because his main criticism of TFA is that it was too close to the original story.

 

[fireproof78]

I shouldn't.

I will.
I can't speak for TLJ, but in TFA, those stereotypes/tropes, or whatever you might call them, are certainly present. They're easy to ignore because he's such a likable character. Are they "racist"?
Who can say

Here goes:

Finn is the main comic relief character of the film, and much of that comedy is at his expense. He's portrayed as earnest, but bumbling, with added slapstick, like Jar Jar, but charming. Besides Finn, the comedy that comes from other characters, like Han, bb8, Kylo, etc, is more incidental, like the OT, except more one liners.

We start with Finn in the assault on Jakku. He freezes up, we assume he's experiencing a moral dilemma. He gets in trouble for this. Kylo Ren, to the Stormtroopers, a terrifying demonic space wizard, takes a keen notice of Finn, who notices that he's been spotted by his dark leader. Phasma also noticed, she reprimands him, tells him to put his mask back on, asks for his weapon, then sends him to psyche eval(or something like that). These troopers are slaves, taken as younglings, indoctrinated, and raised into high tech warriors. Finn is a slave in a slave army.

He now wishes to flee. He frees Poe, because he needs someone to fly the ship that will allow his escape. Poe first thinks he's an undercover resistance ally, then realizes he's a real Stormtrooper. Poe asks "Why are you doing this?" Finn lies "Because it's the right thing to do." Poe sees through this and says "You need a pilot."

They escape on a ship. Finn enthusiastically annihilates dozens? Hundreds? of his still-enslaved brethren, and oppressors alike.

Poe gives him his name(And names him FINN! Was Tobey too on the nose?)

On Jakku, Finn, dying of thirst, comedically runs around frantically, bumping and banging into everything, looking for water, then dives into trough that a pig is drinking from.

Then he sees a girl in trouble, goes to rescue her. She doesn't need him. Then, bb8 tells Rey "Bleep, bloop ba doop, beep bleep." Rey springs into action. Finn is terrified and runs away. She hits him, accuses him of being a thief, points her stick at him laying on the ground, then bb8 frickin shocks him.

What does he do? He lies(unconvincingly, like all comedies). He tells her he's part of the Resistance. BB8 drops the charges?

Then come the Tie fighters. Finn, terrified, grabs Rey's hand over and over, running to and fro. She's like "what are you doing, you frenetic freak?" She's calm, fearless, knows the danger, and knows what to do.
Finn needs another pilot. "You've got one!"

So far Finn is sort of a frantic scared rabbit, always sweating, breathing heavy, excitable, bumbling, and makes Rey look uberheroic.

On the Falcon, after the escape, Rey is trying to fix something. More comedy ensues with Finn being a moron who's still acting all wild, while Rey is trying to get him to hand her a simple tool. He's become infatuated with Rey, and tries to get BB8 to not reveal his lie.

The get caught in a tractor beam, Finn frantically runs to the cockpit, climbing all over Rey, to her annoyance, and the audience's amusement.

He continues the lie with Han Solo, who sees through it.

The Octopus monsters grab Finn, drag him around the ship kicking and screaming. Rey saves him.

They go to Maz. Finn is scared and wants to run. Rey can't agree, and let's him go. FO attacks, and Maz sends Finn with a knife out into a gun fight. He's beaten with a police bataan, then saved by Han.

Rey is captured, Finn wants to save her, so he lies to the resistance, goes to Starkiller, and...too late, Rey "seems on top of things." At then end, he tries to stand up to Kylo, to protect Rey, gets beaten, burned, AMD whipped in the back. He ends the film in coma. I forgot to mention. Earlier, we learn he's a janitor, and told the Resistance whatever he could to go save Rey.

He spends the film always jumpy, always sweating, always scared. He likes Rey, and wants to be her man, so when he sees her in danger, his courage comes out, which is good, but he never is able to save her. She saves herself, and actually ends up saving him him a number of times.

As if ending up in a coma wasn't bad enough, the final injustice to Finn comes at the end, when he's put into a box. That is, the friend zone box. What Finn desires most, he cannot have.

I'm not interested if these Hollywood tropes are racist or not, but these are the examples off the top of my head, if anyone was seeking examples. I haven't had a chance to see TLJ yet, and don't know how the character was written or directed in that film.

Would we have the same issues if he was white? Or if it was Poe? Because, I'm reading that and going "That fits his character, even if it could have been better." But, I'm sure that's just racial excusing on my part...

ETA:
Interesting Carl Sagan interview about the original Star Wars:

STAR WARS is ‘racist, chauvinistic and unscientific’, according to the late Carl Sagan in a throwback interview.

The 20th century scientist appeared in an unearthed Tonight Show episode with Johnny Carson from 1978.

A year after the first ever Star Wars film was released, Sagan lashed out at the popular movie for getting science wrong, before accusing it of white supremacy and chauvinism.

The late scientist said: “Star Wars starts out saying it’s in some other galaxy and then you see there’s people.

“Starting in scene one there’s a problem because human beings are a result of a unique evolutionary sequence based on so many individual and, likely, random events on the Earth.”

Related articles James Cameron SLAMS Star Wars 7: ‘We’ve seen it all before’ Star Wars news: Rogue One writer slams THIS cameo - ‘It was too much'

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Carl Sagan SLAMS ‘racist, chauvinistic, unscientific’ Star Wars in throwback interview WATCH

Sagan continued: “It’s extremely unlikely that there would be creatures as similar to us as the dominant ones in Star Wars.

“There’s a whole bunch of other things: They’re all white.

“The skin of all the humans in Star Wars, oddly enough, is like this [gesturing to his own skin].

“Not even the other colours represented on the Earth are present. Much less greens and blues and purples and oranges.”

Host Johnny Carson then asked: “They did have a scene in Star Wars with a lot of strange characters.”

Sagan replied: “But none of them seemed to be in charge of the galaxy. “Everybody who seemed to be in charge of the galaxy looked like us.

“I thought there was a large amount of human chauvinism.”

 

[Prax]

Would we have the same issues if he was white?

no

 

[Trekkin]

That is, the friend zone box.

*snarls* Motherfuckingmengrumblegrumble....

In all seriousness, shit like this is why it’s important for movies to have more than just one example of women, POC, LGBT characters etc.

Because if Rey had been depicted as falling for Finn during TFA, she would have fallen into the old trap of having the only, female lead, sexually/romantically ‘rewarding’ the first guy that pays her a speck of positive attention.

The more diverse the cast, the less chance you have of one cultural/social group getting stuck fitting into ‘the blah’ role. TLJ improved upon that. And with most of the background characters being killed off in TLJ, and all three of the OT leads now bowing out of main character duties, there’s room for it to improve even more.

 

[fireproof78]

Because if Rey had been depicted as falling for Finn during TFA, she would have fallen into the old trap of having the only, female lead, sexually/romantically ‘rewarding’ the first guy that pays her a speck of positive attention.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

This isn't fucking Reddit. You don't get to make baited statements without backing them up.

One, don't spit expletives at me, since I'm not doing that to you.

Back to the point:

I'm guessing you would not be a position (racially) to recognize the problem when its served up in typical Hollywood fashion, so there's no real way for you to understand.

No ambiguity in that post, so you can drop the hostile behavior.

I shouldn't.

I will.
I can't speak for TLJ, but in TFA, those stereotypes/tropes, or whatever you might call them, are certainly present.

Thank you for your honesty.

Finn is the main comic relief character of the film, and much of that comedy is at his expense. He's portrayed as earnest, but bumbling, with added slapstick, like Jar Jar, but charming. Besides Finn, the comedy that comes from other characters, like Han, bb8, Kylo, etc, is more incidental, like the OT, except more one liners.

That is significant: the other characters are never portrayed as anything other than straightforward heroes who might have a humorous one-liner or experience, while Finn is repeatedly presented as the joke--a clown.

These troopers are slaves, taken as younglings, indoctrinated, and raised into high tech warriors. Finn is a slave in a slave army.

That's exactly what he is, and to sell that point, Poe literally has to set him free, and...

Poe gives him his name(And names him FINN! Was Tobey too on the nose?)

...to replace the one forced on him by the F.O. Finn has no identity unless its given to him. In real history, the naming business is exactly what happened to African slaves, so the message cannot be missed. Finn lacked any skill to take (what should be) his life in his own hands or had the basic self respect of .

On Jakku, Finn, dying of thirst, comedically runs around frantically, bumping and banging into everything, looking for water, then dives into trough that a pig is drinking from.

Yes--instead of finding anyone in that busy scene who would have a water and a cup to use (they are, after all on a desert planet, so hydration would be a normal thing for Jakku's inhabitants), Finn laps up animal-tainted water...like an animal.

Then he sees a girl in trouble, goes to rescue her. She doesn't need him. Then, bb8 tells Rey "Bleep, bloop ba doop, beep bleep." Rey springs into action. Finn is terrified and runs away. She hits him, accuses him of being a thief, points her stick at him laying on the ground, then bb8 frickin shocks him.

In just a couple of minutes, the runaway slave is repeatedly presented as afraid of everything, and an easy victim at the hands of anyone else, making his former Stortmtrooper title seem utterly pointless. For one supposedly trained since childhood, this one former trooper is frightened, and lacks any skill to successfully defend himself.

So far Finn is sort of a frantic scared rabbit, always sweating, breathing heavy, excitable, bumbling, and makes Rey look uberheroic.

Personally, I thought his clown act was to serve as a contrast to how "perfect" a potential heroine Rey was.

On the Falcon, after the escape, Rey is trying to fix something. More comedy ensues with Finn being a moron who's still acting all wild, while Rey is trying to get him to hand her a simple tool. He's become infatuated with Rey, and tries to get BB8 to not reveal his lie.

The get caught in a tractor beam, Finn frantically runs to the cockpit, climbing all over Rey, to her annoyance, and the audience's amusement.

..the point where Finn's clown act makes him an irritant to fellow characters, instead of a necessary particapnt in the adventure--another stumbling, scared runaway like Jar-Jar Binks.

He spends the film always jumpy, always sweating, always scared. He likes Rey, and wants to be her man, so when he sees her in danger, his courage comes out, which is good, but he never is able to save her. She saves herself, and actually ends up saving him him a number of times.

Of TFA's numerous sociopolital messages, Finn being an irrelevant clown instead of taking the archetypal Star Wars hero's growth journey is at the top of the list, as he is only there to lack self-determination and be led around by the nose, for no other reason that to continue to be the butt of almost every joke in the film.

I'm not interested if these Hollywood tropes are racist or not, but these are the examples off the top of my head, if anyone was seeking examples. I haven't had a chance to see TLJ yet, and don't know how the character was written or directed in that film.

..and you provided a wealth of examples, which others (after walking out of theatres in 2015) viewed as a racially stereotyped character in the terrible tradition of others (e.g.. Stepin Fetchit, Mantan Moreland, Dudley Dickerson, 1970s sitcom characters, et al) in over a century of Hollywood history.

 

[fireproof78]

Personally, I thought his clown act was to serve as a contrast to how "perfect" a potential heroine Rey was.

I thought it was a "fish out of water" scene, a balancing act of the naivete of Rey. Certainly would not consider him clownish.

..the point where Finn's clown act makes him an irritant to fellow characters, instead of a necessary particapnt in the adventure--another stumbling, scared runaway like Jar-Jar Binks.

Yeah, no.

...to replace the one forced on him by the F.O. Finn has no identity unless its given to him. In real history, the naming business is exactly what happened to African slaves, so the message cannot be missed. Finn lacked any skill to take (what should be) his life in his own hands or had the basic self respect of .

There are other reasons for giving someone a new name. Not just slave/owner. I also see far more identity in Finn that others, apparently, because he was the character I seem to enjoy the most.

 

[Prax]

I saw a top ten video on Youtube a while back(therichest?) about the top ten mist racist movies of all time, and there were some pretty degrading old films on this list.

They had the Phantom Menace at number 10...
Why? They said that Jar Jar was a racist black stereotype, and that watto was a racist Jewish stereotype.

I think in that case, it says a whole lot more about the author of the video than George Lucas, or the artists that created those characters. I've seen people call watto a "dirty Italian" stereotype and a "dishonest Arab trader" stereotype. I have no idea about Jar Jar, as he's a giant dinosaur rabbit that speaks in an otherworldly accent.

 

[Trekkin]

I saw a top ten video on Youtube a while back(therichest?) about the top ten mist racist movies of all time, and there were some pretty degrading old films on this list.

They had the Phantom Menace at number 10...
Why? They said that Jar Jar was a racist black stereotype, and that watto was a racist Jewish stereotype.

I think in that case, it says a whole lot more about the author of the video than George Lucas, or the artists that created those characters. I've seen people call watto a "dirty Italian" stereotype and a "dishonest Arab trader" stereotype. I have no idea about Jar Jar, as he's a giant dinosaur rabbit that speaks in an otherworldly accent.

The accusation I’ve see for Watto is that his design resembles the racist caricatures of Jewish people that you’d see in, well...ass loads of stuff. But most memorably in Nazi propaganda.

Short. Pot bellied. Capped tooth (maybe? Can’t remember). Big nose. Says shit like ‘I do not care for blah, only moneeey.’

(Note: resembling literal caricatures. As in illustrations. Not that he resembles any actual people.)

 

[Timby]

TPM is full of awful stereotypes, between the Trade Federation dudes affecting Chinese accents and Watto being an Italian "only moneh, heh heh heh" goober, straight out of Steinbeck.