generations question

[BlackFire3]

after the enterprise was destroyed, what would have been the political fallout? since the big D was the flagship of the fleet and had built up quite a reputation during its life (major one having survived the borg head on) and other high profile missions. i wonder if any of the federations enemies got a surge of confidence and tried something.
or if political relations shifted in any way.

 

[Distorted Humor]

I don't think so, now Wolf 359 most likely caused problems...

 

[Warped9]

After the E-D is lost you have to wonder how Starfleet would look at Picard losing another ship (the Stargazer being the first) and the flagship to boot. Seriously you can explain all you want but ultimately the Captain is responsible.

And yet the next thing you see is Picard in command of E-E.

 

[sonak]

Fortunately for Picard, he was off the ship when the ridiculous display of incompetence went down. The best ship in the fleet loses to a 20-year-old BOP because they act all cavalier about returning fire, and because they don't think to scan Geordi and his VISOR for tampering after he's been held prisoner for awhile.



so Picard dodges the blame.

 

[Distorted Humor]

Fortunately for Picard, he was off the ship when the ridiculous display of incompetence went down. The best ship in the fleet loses to a 20-year-old BOP because they act all cavalier about returning fire, and because they don't think to scan Geordi and his VISOR for tampering after he's been held prisoner for awhile.



so Picard dodges the blame.

Indeed, I suspect that the loss of the E-D will damage Riker (and Troi for that matter) then Picard.

raises a question, since Picard was off the ship, is it Picard or Riker that gets the court marshal that is done any time a ship is lost?

 

[BillJ]

After the E-D is lost you have to wonder how Starfleet would look at Picard losing another ship (the Stargazer being the first) and the flagship to boot. Seriously you can explain all you want but ultimately the Captain is responsible.

And yet the next thing you see is Picard in command of E-E.

I have a hard time tagging Picard with this one. He was on the surface of Veridian III trying to talk a madman out of destroying the system and killing millions.

Really... the fault of losing the Enterprise falls on Dr. Crusher. She examined Laforge and cleared him for duty. Guy fell into the hands of a Federation enemy and you don't check out the VISOR equipment to see if it's been tampered with. Soran added a blasted transmitter to it and she didn't see it.

 

[SchwEnt]

Just to be a pain in the ass, I'll mention how Geordi was trapped down on Galorndon Core with a Romulan. He was then beamed directly to the bridge, in the middle of a confrontation with a warbird.

He was trapped with the enemy then and no one thought to check his VISOR or clear him in any way before bringing him right up to the bridge at a critical moment.

And there WAS messing around with his VISOR and tricorder down on the surface, the Romulan had a great opportunity to tamper with secret transmitters or whatnot. In fact, they DO mess with his VISOR in a later eps.

Of course, that was not part of the story so no one mentions how Geordi came aboard without a thorough check-out at that time.

I'm such a pain in the ass for bringing it up.

 

[BillJ]

Just to be a pain in the ass, I'll mention how Geordi was trapped down on Galorndon Core with a Romulan. He was then beamed directly to the bridge, in the middle of a confrontation with a warbird.

He was trapped with the enemy then and no one thought to check his VISOR or clear him in any way before bringing him right up to the bridge at a critical moment.

And there WAS messing around with his VISOR and tricorder down on the surface, the Romulan had a great opportunity to tamper with secret transmitters or whatnot. In fact, they DO mess with his VISOR in a later eps.

Of course, that was not part of the story so no one mentions how Geordi came aboard without a thorough check-out at that time.

I'm such a pain in the ass for bringing it up.

You could say that... but Picard ordered him beamed directly to the bridge. So that would automatically bypass a check-up. But in Generations he is given a physical before being cleared for duty and no one caught the tampering.

 

[SchwEnt]

Right. Really, GEN is the exception instead of the rule.
Most of the time people are beamed up to the transporter room and go on their merry way, no checkups or stops in sickbay first (aside from automatic biofilter and security scans).

And that makes it worse, because one of the few times a check is made is also one of the few times an enemy covertly planted some nefarious tech on someone.

 

[BillJ]

And that makes it worse, because one of the few times a check is made is also one of the few times an enemy covertly planted some nefarious tech on someone.

 

[sonak]

I forgot to mention they also didn't bother rotating shield frequencies after it was clear that the Klingons had figured it out.


basically, the plot demanded the Ent-D get destroyed, so it did. It's just sad that they made the senior officers look like fools to do it.

 

[SchwEnt]

...and makes Riker that man who could defeat Locutus and the Borg, but could not defeat the Duras sisters in an old Klingon Bird of Prey. Excellent.

 

[Expo67]

Thank God the Duras Sisters got killed off. The look on their faces when their shields and cloak were hacked into, let alone the spread of photon torpedoes coming at them after that, was priceless. May they burn in the fires of hell for their many unpaid sins.

I'm still amazed that Geordi did not jettison the warp core. Talk about incompetence. If someone had mentioned that the mechanism to jettison the warp core had been damaged, then I would cut Geordi some slack. If Montogomery Scott had been on board, he would have found a way, and would have pulled it off.

Geordi LaForge should have been killed off. Especially Beverly Crusher. Or at the very least, been court-martialed and dishonorably discharged for their incompetent handling in the Enterprise-D situation.

Not only are those two not good Starfleet Officers(Chief Engineer and Doctor), they certainly don't belong in the uniform and the service, either.

 

[RandyS]

The fault lies with Ron Moore and Brannon Braga. it was bad writing. The loss of the Enterprise-D was nothing but a pointless excuse to create a new one.

 

[BillJ]

The fault lies with Ron Moore and Brannon Braga. it was bad writing. The loss of the Enterprise-D was nothing but a pointless excuse to create a new one.

I think it was on the checklist of things to do given to them by the studio. Can't sell toy replicas of the new Enterprise until they got rid of the old one.

 

[Elder Knight]

If the saucer didn't have warp capability, they should have commanded the engineering section to zip away from them as fast and as far as possible.

 

[BillJ]

If the saucer didn't have warp capability, they should have commanded the engineering section to zip away from them as fast and as far as possible.

It was a warp core breach that did in the stardrive section of the Enterprise.

 

[Expo67]

The fault lies with Ron Moore and Brannon Braga. it was bad writing. The loss of the Enterprise-D was nothing but a pointless excuse to create a new one.

That too. I stand corrected in that oversight.

Another pointless story plot was the less than graceful death of Captain James Tiberius Kirk, himself. Maybe if Jim Kirk died more heroically(i.e. in a blaze of glory), I would probably cut Moore and Braga some slack. But it would be very little(I've already cut them a little by killing off the Duras Sisters).

I'll say this much for Ron Moore. He certainly comes from the Fred Freiberger school of writing(i.e. not thinking things through before typing them out).

First this huge misfire, then that piece of shit Battlestar Galactica remake. I'd hate to think what is next.

The only good things about Generations are the following:

1. The first half involving Kirk, Scott, Chekov, Guinan, and the Enterprise-B.

2. Malcolm McDowell(an actor I never would have imagined to be in a Star Trek film).

3. The killing of Lursa and B'Tor

4. Watching Geordi suffer at the hands of Soran. Too bad Soran didn't kill him off. The Enterprise-D would have survived.

 

[arch101]

The one thing Picard has going for him is that, as a deep space exploration specialist, ships under his command are routinely placed in the most dangerous situations. Therefore, the loss of two ships in 25 years might not seem so extreme.
As for the new ship issue, it's funny that the producers decided NOT to go with a new ship (Excelsior Class) when they had the chance in TVH. Instead, they went with a copycat of the old ship for 2 more films. But, by the time of Gen, the producers couldn't wait to get rid of the old ship for a new one.
Think of how much scarier FC would have been with the civilian crew of the Enterprise D (children included) borgified.

 

[RandyS]

The fault lies with Ron Moore and Brannon Braga. it was bad writing. The loss of the Enterprise-D was nothing but a pointless excuse to create a new one.

I think it was on the checklist of things to do given to them by the studio. Can't sell toy replicas of the new Enterprise until they got rid of the old one.

Yeah, I think I remember hearing that too. Doesn't change my feeling that it was stupid though.

I also believe they both said that they wanted to do it, although how accurate that is, I couldn't say.