Generations - Kirk's Death: A question of stamina?

[plynch]

I watched GEN a coupla weeks ago over christmas. Meh. It was ok, better in some ways, worse in others, than I remembered.

What occurs to me now is that it is frustrating to me because it is a near miss. A whiff. Not a crash and burn disaster which has its own weirdo karma (STV), but it is sorta cool, and THE crossover flick where Kirk dies coulda been KILLER. I'm okay with the dying to save people. I'm okay with Tasha and Jadzia dying in an offhand, low key manner. More realistic in space peril. It's just that this was James Tiberius frackin' Kirk. SOMEthing better than a falling bridge, please? And "oh my"? My two cents.

 

[horatio83]

Why?

Why is a crossover feature where no one dies automatically better than one where someone does die? Why is it true that Kirk "should not have died" as Anji put it? These characters aren't immortal. They all have to die eventually, and they live in a universe full of dangers. And in the case of characters who are Starfleet officers, they willingly throw themselves into said dangers repeatedly. I've never understood why main character death is seemingly a taboo for some people.

Debating the merits of how the character died, or debating whether or not the work in which the character died was good or not, is one thing; that's completely understandable to me, and is largely subjective anyway. Personally, I didn't actually mind Kirk's death. I like GEN overall, though I have my problems with it, as I do with all of the films, but Kirk's death wasn't one of them. He sacrificed himself to help save an entire civilization - not because he'd get anything out of it, or because the Federation would get anything out of it. The people he saved would never even know his name. He did it because it was right. I always thought it was a fitting way for this particular character to go. I know I'm in the minority on that, but eh, what can ya do.

That said, the sentiment that depicting Kirk being killed on-screen is something that simply SHOULD NOT have been done, period... I honestly don't get it.

I totally agree. Some people obviously either want immortal heroes or heroes that die a glorious death. As you said, what matters is not how they die but that they do the right thing before dying.

 

[Tina Lawton]

Dude, he has the body to prove his story. Easiest thing in the Galaxy for someone to visit that gravesite and take some samples, at the very least. Pretty sure Star Fleet would still have Kirk's DNA on file - if only because of paternity suits.

Shatner wrote a very good series of books in which the Romulans went and retrieved his body, restored him, and sent him off to kill Picard.

And speakking of the "Oh my" line. Shatner said he played this moment as if Kirk was, at the last moment, seeing what lay before him in death and treating it as another adventure. "Oh my" was a reflection of of this experience, seeing what lay on the other side. So rather than "Oh my I am dying", it is "Oh my, here we go".

 

[7thsealord]

Dude, he has the body to prove his story. Easiest thing in the Galaxy for someone to visit that gravesite and take some samples, at the very least. Pretty sure Star Fleet would still have Kirk's DNA on file - if only because of paternity suits.

Shatner wrote a very good series of books in which the Romulans went and retrieved his body, restored him, and sent him off to kill Picard.

Undoubtedly, a very long line of fans will say of Shatner's books "It's not canon. Unclean! Unclean!" or something like that. Probably whilst loudly ringing handbells and pointing accusatorily. Haven't read the books myself, so cannot judge.

And speakking of the "Oh my" line. Shatner said he played this moment as if Kirk was, at the last moment, seeing what lay before him in death and treating it as another adventure. "Oh my" was a reflection of of this experience, seeing what lay on the other side. So rather than "Oh my I am dying", it is "Oh my, here we go".

That last is how I have always interpreted that scene.