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Generations 1st hour..

parsonsm

Lieutenant
Red Shirt
So I've been rewatching the films recently over the Christmas and new year period, and I've come to the conclusion that the best TNG film is generations, but only for the first hour.

As has been discussed many times before, I feel the film is a bit of a mess as soon as Picard enters the nexus.

The fact that the nexus makes no sense, how kirks death is dealt with, and generally just now the rest of the plot is dealt with is quite the let down,

But, that first hour or so is wonderful.

We have the two crews as we know them, and the characters are well portrayed and familiar.

There are wonderful moments with Word and Data, and Soran is at first quite an interesting villain.

It's also much more cinematic that any of the other films. First contact, as good as it is, always seems like the best double episode the series ever produced.

On a side note, I love how Data protects Troi when the ship is crashing, somehow I've never noticed that before.
 
If only one hour of a two-hour film is good, it’s a bit of a stretch for me to buy it as the best of the series.

Perhaps I wasn't clear.

I'm not suggesting that generations is the best film because of that first hour.

I'm suggesting that the first hour is the best quality that the TNG films reached, and that the film overall was ruined by events after Picard entered the nexus.
 
The moment Picard enters the nexus does feel like an "intermission" point, and the Christmas stuff with the lady who kinda-but-not-really looks like Beverly and faux-Rene (I really wish they'd gotten back the original actor, and I don't care whether he'd be Tiny Tim-like or not) is...well, it's probably exactly what the nexus should feel like when you're experiencing it, but it's kind of dreadful to watch and a huge slowdown in the pacing of the film to this point. For me things get a bit back on track once Picard snaps out of it, but YMMV concerning his meetup with Kirk, and the fisticuffs that follow (and subsequent events)...I don't think anyone really feels that's Trek at its finest.
 
Meh... even the 1st hour is not without its issues imho. Data's shoehorned goofy emotion chip B-plot falls a little flat. The ENT-B stuff fails to reach the mark once you realize Scotty & Chekov are just clumsily added fill-ins for Spock & McCoy... & killing Picard's family off, just to give him some character motivation to spend on some oddball Nexus scenario, never sat right with me either... & the Duras sisters? Really? Geez, I'm surprised Picard didn't just recruit Kirk by saying "Klingons are trying to destroy my ship!" That would've got him. :lol:
 
And yet, by *not* being McCoy and Spock, it fulfills Kirk's line in TFF that he can't die if those two are with him.
Yeah, none of that applied I'm afraid. What he told Spock & Bones is that he'd die alone, not specifically that he was immune from death if those two were around. Plus, he didn't die on the B anyhow, nor did he ultimately die alone at the end either, because Picard was there gawking at him lol
 
The Data subplot is terrible and so is Spiner’s performance. He’s always superb when he’s just regular Data but given the chance (see also “Masks”) he chews the scenery and spits it out without restraint or remorse. Basically the writers took TNG’s most popular character and, for much the duration of their first movie, made him completely out of character and at times grotesquely annoying. They really didn’t know what they were doing with this movie; it was an executive mandated box ticking exercise.
 
"Pass the torch. Then you get the next one all to yourself."

I find Data pretty much always annoying. And the obligatory "explain something obvious to Data" dialog/speech that comes next.

Overly actor-y tone of voice: "You see Data, when humans do X, they really. . . ."

Yish.
 
Sometimes, it helps to explain something you do without thinking to another person. It can help to get an outsider's view. Often, you realize how ridiculous you and others are to do it just in the telling.
 
It's interesting to see the response.

I watched first contact last night, and yes it's a great film, though I think it's overrated.

Part of the first hour of generations that I love is that it allows for character moments outside of the main plot that actually add to overall story.

First contact is just plot all the way.

So, the moments with Data and his emotion chip I actually really appreciate.

I don't think Brent Spinner acts badly here.

It's very OTT, but its all new to him. He acts like a toddler when they discover something new they like, there is no filter.
 
So I've been rewatching the films recently over the Christmas and new year period, and I've come to the conclusion that the best TNG film is generations, but only for the first hour.

Fascinating!

As has been discussed many times before, I feel the film is a bit of a mess as soon as Picard enters the nexus.

Prior to it, there are some messy moments, but it does have a better flow and doesn't feel contrived to finish up the proceedings...

The fact that the nexus makes no sense, how kirks death is dealt with, and generally just now the rest of the plot is dealt with is quite the let down,

The original death scene, which pre-screening audiences loathed, had more dramatic weight to it. What we eventually got is cornball, complete with unspoken gag about Kirk and "the bridge". Not to mention, Red Letter Media sorta nailed it with pointing out the hungry critters climbing the rock where Picard "buried" him... But RLM also claim GEN ruins all Trek movies. Gonna disagree with them as to when, but in some ways it's for the best... so anyhoo...

But, that first hour or so is wonderful.

I vaguely remember a few things...

* Kirk and his lesser half of the bridge crew spouting TNG treknobabble on 1701-B
* Data's emotions
* the cool new lighting techniques (yes, I am a fan of it - far better than the bleached-out tv studio lighting)
* the sneak attack on 1701-D
* the awesome Blake's 7-inspired crash, even if they cut'n'pasted the bit from "Yesterday's Enterprise" about warp core breach...

It's definitely nowhere akin to the tone and handling TMP-TSFS had, but there's still much to enjoy.

We have the two crews as we know them, and the characters are well portrayed and familiar.

I love how 1701-B's captain is the same actor (Alan Ruck) who later plays Stuart Bondeck in one of the most underrated sitcoms from the 1990s (Spin City). He and Carter Heywood are one of the all-time great double-acts of sitcoms, but I digress...

There are wonderful moments with Word and Data, and Soran is at first quite an interesting villain.

Worf was okay. If not a bit wet.

Data finally got the emotion chip that he nicked from Lore's head. It's fused, can't be removed, there's no on/off function Data can think into enabling or disabling, but I laughed with those results scenes a lot. More than at, fortunately.

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(Dang, check out all those new costumes and how they aren't exactly form-fitting or tailored to proper arm size... Riker is too short, the dude in the background's is too long... Troi's just quietly noticing and giggling... )

It's also much more cinematic that any of the other films. First contact, as good as it is, always seems like the best double episode the series ever produced.

It's not my thing. Even INS, for all its issues, had more of a TNG-worthy plot to it. So did NEM, which almost got it right... But YMMV...

On a side note, I love how Data protects Troi when the ship is crashing, somehow I've never noticed that before.

The "oh ****" moment thanks to Data's shiny new emotion chip still fused and not functioning appropriately (Data did retrieve it from Lore, so it's bound to be damaged - that one's easier than my ex!) also has a nuance I never noticed before; the camera framing (Carson ruled) starts with showing the very edges of the viewscreen and slowly zooms in as a subtle homage to the season 1 feel where characters are placed directly in front of the viewscreen to get that "overwhelming" sensation, a nice sort of visual later seasons ditched. (Yes, season 1's camera framing didn't zoom in, which made those shots of Troi or Picard or whomever in front of... outer space... seem even more surreal and refreshingly alienesque.)

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Just don't ask how transparent aluminium shatters so easily, but imagine being in the saucer and there's no equivalent to a brake pedal and scaffolding is falling all around you...
 
It's interesting to see the response.

I watched first contact last night, and yes it's a great film, though I think it's overrated.

I'll say this:

...I saw TUC three times in 1991
I saw GEN twice in 1994
In 1996, I walked out a third of a way into my second viewing of FC.
In 1998, I saw INS twice...

Part of the first hour of generations that I love is that it allows for character moments outside of the main plot that actually add to overall story.

First contact is just plot all the way.

Not a plot, but about several separate plots and plot ideas crammed into one flick of a movie -- and none of them gets a chance to feel like it got any proper or natural development, with ideas squished or broken as a result. Sorta like this:

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So, the moments with Data and his emotion chip I actually really appreciate.

I don't think Brent Spinner acts badly here.

It's very OTT, but its all new to him. He acts like a toddler when they discover something new they like, there is no filter.

Hmm... Data, all of a sudden, can turn the chip on and off on command. He's told to turn it off, and the Borg find the subroutine and flick the switch. And then flicked other switches... Anyway, the Borg could have been manipulating or reprogramming any number of circuits, which they'd have to do to hook in other systems if they were "inverting the trope" (adding gooey biological bits to his android frame as a very weird sort of experiment that also makes no sense, unless Borg Queen was so incredibly bored that she'd take 1701-E crewmembers bits and sew them onto the android...) Then i the next movie (INS) we're told he didn't bring it with him to the planet (but he is clearly acting out of hatred with that big ol' frown on his face, oops.) NEM pretends the thing never existed - a bit late in the day, but appreciated nonetheless. The TNG flicks simply put in zero attempt at consistency.

I don't recall Spiner's acting being an issue.
 
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