WOW! You were right. It's really getting good. I wonder...is this the section of story where Malcolm's discovery of being an agent of Section 31 comes in?
General Trek Questions and Observations
- Thread starter The Old Mixer
- Start date
Enjoying your takes, always nice to hear how fresh eyes see these shows. Your opinion seems to mirror mine. I really had high hopes for Voyager when it first premiered.......I stuck with it the whole run but.....well I'll wait for you to finish. CAN'T WAIT to hear your thoughts on the final couple of season when you get there.
Thanks much. I'm waiting to see what happens on the Xindi thing - they just showed "Extinction" episode last night. Can you imagine what would have happened if the whole ship got infected????I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about...
No
Ok so Voyager SPOILER!!!! Don't read any farther if ya don't wanna know! SPOILER!!!!!
So I just finished both "year of Hell" episodes plus a few more.
I'm a little confused, didn't they (the whole Voyager crew) get warned about this period and the time discplaced torpedos? The chronitan torpedo's I think....
The first time the large ship that Red Forman is the Captain of comes into contract with voyager how does a good crew allow a ship that large to sneak up on you? Ok so let's say you use the excuse that it's phasing in and out of time so it's not detectable by any normal means (which I don't buy, you would get hits even on regular radar as the ship phased in and out) but it was huge and would have been visible to the naked eye long before it saw the voyager.
Then when they do see it they just sit there right in front of it instead of maneuvering out of what a normal firing arc might be. The Voyager should have been able to out maneuver it easily yet they sit there and take a blast.....once again Janeway failed the simplest ideas of naval warfare. Your telling me not one person on the bridge thought to themselves "hmmmm it has a giant crystal looking eye and looks to project something through the front let's move to it side" the first time I saw it I knew it fired something forward through that lens.
Seven is now wearing a reddish brown outfit that's still to tight. As a guy do I mind....nope, but it's obvious pandering that serves no purpose but ratings (and who is so desperate that a tight jumpsuit will make you tune in) I do like the character and some of the writing for the character is good. Kim is still an idiot for not pairing up with seven.
Tuvak is a great character and well written and crazy well acted. That one time at which Janeway takes over Voyager alone and Tuvak leaves and they hug and he lets slip just a slight embrace back....great acting he has been such a Vulcan up to that point that moving out of his comfort zone to hug someone back made you take notice.
Neelix is getting more screen time again, that's a good thing.
The funniest moment in the entire series so far is when the doctor is giving Janeway a massage and her head is flying all over...I giggled a bit at that. It's the episode with the invisible alien medical teams all over the ship (didn't buy it one second that they were undetectable even when physically effecting someone yet a phaser blast makes them visible but doesn't harm it)
Chakotay still has his name over pronounced and he would have a nickname or shortened name by that time. You need to communicate complex tasks and ideas so you would naturally shorten his name at some point. I'm not sure the actor actually liked his character I get a weird vibe from him though I do like him and his character and as I've said he makes most episodes better.
Paris and Belanna, like them both. Both well acted and likeable. We need a baby from this couple before the series is over.
Kim....nice guy, very likable, well acted. Still the universes bitch.
Janeway....nuts up and acts like a leader a few times then slips back into a passive annoying dorm room RA who insist rules are followed but if you run afoul of another race she might let you get screwed so that her ethics aren't harmed.....her actions spook the hell out of me and I would probably not seek to ever go planetside.
I'm enjoying the series now that I block out Janeway, I love watching the other characters interact and the story's are pretty good. Once I changed how I watch the series it went from a D+ to a B- for me with DS9 being an A for some idea of how I'm grading.
Well get off my lawn ya damn kids!
So I just finished both "year of Hell" episodes plus a few more.
I'm a little confused, didn't they (the whole Voyager crew) get warned about this period and the time discplaced torpedos? The chronitan torpedo's I think....
The first time the large ship that Red Forman is the Captain of comes into contract with voyager how does a good crew allow a ship that large to sneak up on you? Ok so let's say you use the excuse that it's phasing in and out of time so it's not detectable by any normal means (which I don't buy, you would get hits even on regular radar as the ship phased in and out) but it was huge and would have been visible to the naked eye long before it saw the voyager.
Then when they do see it they just sit there right in front of it instead of maneuvering out of what a normal firing arc might be. The Voyager should have been able to out maneuver it easily yet they sit there and take a blast.....once again Janeway failed the simplest ideas of naval warfare. Your telling me not one person on the bridge thought to themselves "hmmmm it has a giant crystal looking eye and looks to project something through the front let's move to it side" the first time I saw it I knew it fired something forward through that lens.
Seven is now wearing a reddish brown outfit that's still to tight. As a guy do I mind....nope, but it's obvious pandering that serves no purpose but ratings (and who is so desperate that a tight jumpsuit will make you tune in) I do like the character and some of the writing for the character is good. Kim is still an idiot for not pairing up with seven.
Tuvak is a great character and well written and crazy well acted. That one time at which Janeway takes over Voyager alone and Tuvak leaves and they hug and he lets slip just a slight embrace back....great acting he has been such a Vulcan up to that point that moving out of his comfort zone to hug someone back made you take notice.
Neelix is getting more screen time again, that's a good thing.
The funniest moment in the entire series so far is when the doctor is giving Janeway a massage and her head is flying all over...I giggled a bit at that. It's the episode with the invisible alien medical teams all over the ship (didn't buy it one second that they were undetectable even when physically effecting someone yet a phaser blast makes them visible but doesn't harm it)
Chakotay still has his name over pronounced and he would have a nickname or shortened name by that time. You need to communicate complex tasks and ideas so you would naturally shorten his name at some point. I'm not sure the actor actually liked his character I get a weird vibe from him though I do like him and his character and as I've said he makes most episodes better.
Paris and Belanna, like them both. Both well acted and likeable. We need a baby from this couple before the series is over.
Kim....nice guy, very likable, well acted. Still the universes bitch.
Janeway....nuts up and acts like a leader a few times then slips back into a passive annoying dorm room RA who insist rules are followed but if you run afoul of another race she might let you get screwed so that her ethics aren't harmed.....her actions spook the hell out of me and I would probably not seek to ever go planetside.
I'm enjoying the series now that I block out Janeway, I love watching the other characters interact and the story's are pretty good. Once I changed how I watch the series it went from a D+ to a B- for me with DS9 being an A for some idea of how I'm grading.
Well get off my lawn ya damn kids!
Spoiler Alert!! On Voyager, I believe the last episode shows B'Lanna & Paris DO have a baby. Tuvok is still a great character, much like Spock & Data combined. He gets put into an institution for mental trouble later on. Neelix eventually leaves Voyager to live with another Talaxian woman and her son ( or daughter? who likes Neelix). Not sure what happened with Kim, Janeway or Chakotay. I think Chakotay returns to his Native tribe on Earth. Anyway, love your input on this. What's your take on Enterprise and TNG???
One of those spoilers is wrong, I believe. I won't say which. There, now I've despoilerized that whole post.
Love BlackAdder, have the whole set plus Christmas and short specials. Easily tied with the IT crowd for best BBC comedy. BA has the funniest moments with an enormously sad last episode, Atkinson is brilliant.
I love Blackadder. Was I inadvertently quoting it? I don't know IT Crowd.
OH WOW ! ! ! "Concerning Flight" Season 4 Episode 11 OMG ! ! !................... Television perfection ! ! !
The writing, acting, the music a television episode dose not get any better than this........
WOW what writing........Captain....."Fire at will ! ! !" Tuvok......" I have the will.......but not the means..."
Brilliant ! Just brilliant, and the writing just keeps getting better, it has the same strength from this opening scene....right through to the very end ! ! !
The conversation between Janeway and Liannado near the end is brilliant and so thought provoking beautifully acted, when she explains to him the mind of the sparrow.........amazing, this is one of the most intelligent and powerful scenes I have ever seen portrayed on both television or film.
And then the wonderful coming together of his first flight, and how subtlety it has been built up over many previous episodes.......Genius ! ! !
Just such a perfect episode of television for me, and the way the whole story with the music crescendos, to the beautiful ending scene, when just as you think its all over Lianado turns and asks Janeway to walk with him............that point when you realise the mastery of Voyager and Star Trek has transported you totally in to this wonderful world, so completely ! ! !
WOW ! ! !
The writing, acting, the music a television episode dose not get any better than this........
WOW what writing........Captain....."Fire at will ! ! !" Tuvok......" I have the will.......but not the means..."
Brilliant ! Just brilliant, and the writing just keeps getting better, it has the same strength from this opening scene....right through to the very end ! ! !
The conversation between Janeway and Liannado near the end is brilliant and so thought provoking beautifully acted, when she explains to him the mind of the sparrow.........amazing, this is one of the most intelligent and powerful scenes I have ever seen portrayed on both television or film.
And then the wonderful coming together of his first flight, and how subtlety it has been built up over many previous episodes.......Genius ! ! !
Just such a perfect episode of television for me, and the way the whole story with the music crescendos, to the beautiful ending scene, when just as you think its all over Lianado turns and asks Janeway to walk with him............that point when you realise the mastery of Voyager and Star Trek has transported you totally in to this wonderful world, so completely ! ! !
WOW ! ! !
You want to know how bad Voyager has messed with my head...I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not..
Ok so SPOILER!!!! SPOILER!!!
So Janeway has Hirogen and Species 8472 on her ship, and of course she wants to cuddle with them. Two of the most violent species they have met and she's making sure she follows Starfleets version of the "how to be an effective victim" manual.
Seven probably saves the entire crew, and shows far more common sense by getting them both off the ship. An ex borg....has more common sense than Janeway, then Seven gets punished but her points were valid when she argued with Janeway. Seven tells Janeway that Janeway now fears Sevens individuality, I think this hits the nail on the head but not a physical fear. To me it's about just how ineffectual a leader Janeway is and now that someone is on board to call her on it she's a bit resentful.
Ok on to more episodes....
Get off my lawn ya damn kids!
So Janeway has Hirogen and Species 8472 on her ship, and of course she wants to cuddle with them. Two of the most violent species they have met and she's making sure she follows Starfleets version of the "how to be an effective victim" manual.
Seven probably saves the entire crew, and shows far more common sense by getting them both off the ship. An ex borg....has more common sense than Janeway, then Seven gets punished but her points were valid when she argued with Janeway. Seven tells Janeway that Janeway now fears Sevens individuality, I think this hits the nail on the head but not a physical fear. To me it's about just how ineffectual a leader Janeway is and now that someone is on board to call her on it she's a bit resentful.
Ok on to more episodes....
Get off my lawn ya damn kids!
Okay, saw "RAJIN" on Enterprise last night. Part of the Xindi thing. That woman totally overpowering T"Pol??? WOW! If she can to that then the men should watch out. Now, this group of species has the info for a Bio-weapon to destroy Earth. NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!! Not if Archer & crew can help it. Have to wait till tomorrow night to see what happens. This part of the series is really exciting and gets you routing for the humans!!!
Your gonna love it.....it's crazy up to the last second.
LOL......that's quite funny.....no assure you its 100% genuine ! ! ! ! ! ! If you take the time to watch that episode, you will see the connection between my comments and the specific scenes I have mentioned......
I hope you too enjoy (I feel sorry for you if you do not appreciate or get anything out of this episode ! ! !)
Brilliant.....some lovely comments, thoughts and reflections, I'm on a binge watch at the moment, maybe an episode or two ahead of you.........look out for "Concerning Flight" ! ! ! sea4 epp 11
LOL I used to feel the same way about Janeway, I don't know how old you are or how many times you have watched Voyager (this will be roughly my 5th run) I find Janeway like a wonderful bottle of red, that ages, settles and matures more and more with time, its like someone who "hates" red.......but keeps coming back to it, only one day.....suddenly to "get it" I have heard on many forums this has been the experience for many Voyager fans me included......this has been my first viewing out of 5 where my eyes have been opened to one of the most amazing performances I have ever seen set to television or film ! ! !
Really enjoyed reading your comments and thoughts....thankyou !
Another speculation related to the above. It seems that those who marry Vulcans must adapt to Vulcan culture and totally embrace it and leave their own cultures behind. The Vulcans don't adapt to their spouse's culture at all, and expect everything to be about them.
It does seem one-sided, doesn't it. I guess that's the price one pays for being involved with Vulcans. Look at what "Trip" went through with T'Pol.
So I'm still marching through Voyager I'm enjoying these final seasons. But I've managed to decipher one of my biggest peeves. This isn't Voyager specific but Star Fleet specific and it bleeds heavily into Voyager because of the circumstances that the ship finds itself in.
The "security" on a Federation ship is a joke, even with Tuvak running a good crew Star Fleets idea of security is lacking greatly. My frustration with the lack of fighting ability and spirit comes from my personal history.
I was a Tank Crewman, Then Commander, then a Tank Platoon Commander for more than 23 years. I held the MOS designation of 19kilo for all those years proudly and earned my Cavalry Stetson hat and spurs in an M1. I was lucky to be in one of the first rotations of tankers who trained in the all mighty M1.
I'll convert this to a bullet list of sorts, if given total freedom to rework Star Fleets security operations this is just a bit of what I'd quickly change.
1: Each ship would have a contingent of actual soldiers as security (like the Makos from Enterprise only more advanced)
2: Using ships for history these men would most likely be Marines, but soldier is a fine designation as well.
3: Body armor would be the norm, we have various types of armor now be it Dragon scale, or the more common Kevlar or Type III or IV plates in plate carriers. I find it hard to believe in the 24th century they don't have phaser ablative, or disruptor repulsive armor.
4: Mixed into the above would be heavy armored crewman in suits that were powered and gave the soldier strength, speed, survivability and enhanced healing effects. These heavy powered suits would carry heavy weapons as well.
5: The weapons....I find the Phaser to lack punch and it's damage is not fear inspiring. From what I've read the phaser is really just a sort of laser though the latest use a nadion particle which from the research I can find is bunk. My soldiers would need a weapon that hits hard, creates massive damage and makes a mess of the enemy. Never discount the psychological effect of watching your buddy get torn apart and splattered all over a bulkhead.
6: The soldiers would not have training that's irrelevant, no they aren't scientists they are trained to eliminate the enemy who has boarded their ship or to perform a raid on another ship. The only skill beyond combat would be a combat medic.
7: Personal cloaking devices plus knifes/swords equal dead Borg. The soldiers would collect Borg implants as trophys and hang them from their belts. This would add drama and many story lines to the show and would be just damn cool.
It drives me nuts when an enemy transports aboard the Voyager and the entire crew stands around while the enemy is having its atoms put back together. The reaction time is terrible, the thought process is that of someone who hasn't trained constantly until drawing or readying a weapon is just physical memory and the brain doesn't waste energy on just how much of a hug should I give these new friends but rather how can I most efficiently move to take advantage of their weakness.
In the end I can't change Star Fleet and I fully understand that it was conceived of and written by hippies but really aren't they tired of having their heads handed to them? I find it hard to believe that Star Fleet never decided to put soldiers on each ship to take care of security instead of the paul blart mall cops that far to often relie on the kindness of strangers rather than their own drive, determination, training, and equipment.
That was a bit of a rant....but some aspects of Star Trek drive me nuts.
Now get off my lawn ya damn kids!
The "security" on a Federation ship is a joke, even with Tuvak running a good crew Star Fleets idea of security is lacking greatly. My frustration with the lack of fighting ability and spirit comes from my personal history.
I was a Tank Crewman, Then Commander, then a Tank Platoon Commander for more than 23 years. I held the MOS designation of 19kilo for all those years proudly and earned my Cavalry Stetson hat and spurs in an M1. I was lucky to be in one of the first rotations of tankers who trained in the all mighty M1.
I'll convert this to a bullet list of sorts, if given total freedom to rework Star Fleets security operations this is just a bit of what I'd quickly change.
1: Each ship would have a contingent of actual soldiers as security (like the Makos from Enterprise only more advanced)
2: Using ships for history these men would most likely be Marines, but soldier is a fine designation as well.
3: Body armor would be the norm, we have various types of armor now be it Dragon scale, or the more common Kevlar or Type III or IV plates in plate carriers. I find it hard to believe in the 24th century they don't have phaser ablative, or disruptor repulsive armor.
4: Mixed into the above would be heavy armored crewman in suits that were powered and gave the soldier strength, speed, survivability and enhanced healing effects. These heavy powered suits would carry heavy weapons as well.
5: The weapons....I find the Phaser to lack punch and it's damage is not fear inspiring. From what I've read the phaser is really just a sort of laser though the latest use a nadion particle which from the research I can find is bunk. My soldiers would need a weapon that hits hard, creates massive damage and makes a mess of the enemy. Never discount the psychological effect of watching your buddy get torn apart and splattered all over a bulkhead.
6: The soldiers would not have training that's irrelevant, no they aren't scientists they are trained to eliminate the enemy who has boarded their ship or to perform a raid on another ship. The only skill beyond combat would be a combat medic.
7: Personal cloaking devices plus knifes/swords equal dead Borg. The soldiers would collect Borg implants as trophys and hang them from their belts. This would add drama and many story lines to the show and would be just damn cool.
It drives me nuts when an enemy transports aboard the Voyager and the entire crew stands around while the enemy is having its atoms put back together. The reaction time is terrible, the thought process is that of someone who hasn't trained constantly until drawing or readying a weapon is just physical memory and the brain doesn't waste energy on just how much of a hug should I give these new friends but rather how can I most efficiently move to take advantage of their weakness.
In the end I can't change Star Fleet and I fully understand that it was conceived of and written by hippies but really aren't they tired of having their heads handed to them? I find it hard to believe that Star Fleet never decided to put soldiers on each ship to take care of security instead of the paul blart mall cops that far to often relie on the kindness of strangers rather than their own drive, determination, training, and equipment.
That was a bit of a rant....but some aspects of Star Trek drive me nuts.
Now get off my lawn ya damn kids!
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