General thoughts on ENT?
- Thread starter BlueStuff
- Start date
Not likely.
I'd say, try and just watch it with an open mind and see what happens.
Interesting way of putting it. I'm not a fan of politicalTrek, especially when it's "hit you over the head with political issues of the day"Trek. I enjoyed TNG well enough, but many episodes were hit and miss for me- like many people say of ENT. I enjoy adventureTrek..and relationshipTrek. And by "relationship", not necessarily romantic. I much rather see friendships. Like Geordi/Data and Trip/Malcolm or Trip/Jonathan. One of my disappointments actually was that they killed Admiral Forrest, at the point where they acknowledged that there was a mutual respect between him and Soval. It would have been awesome to see an inter-species friendship like that. Fortunately, we got so,e of that with Archer and Shran. Oh, and of course, Archer and T'Pol (I also enjoyed Twilight for that reason )
What I also liked about ENT is that the characters (even under developed ones) seemed more real to me. I identified with them. And I could place myself in their positions- especially with Archer making command decisions during S3.
Oh, and I will also mention that I appreciated that then crew that were KIA were acknowledged and respected in a way that TOS and VOY always failed to do. I think ENT did better than TNG in that regard too (though my memory isn't 100% on TNG) DS9 was too dark for me , and I didn't have time to watch much.
@BlueStuff - see my sig. 
ENT is inconsistent, so if viewing for the first time, I think being forewarned of good and bad eps will help you get through it.
It will also help if you start by buying into the unique look of the show (a bit clunky and submarine-like), and get to like some of the characters. Trip and Malcolm are a couple of fan faves; I'm surprised Dr Phlox doesn't get more love.
If you like Jeff Combs, you'll love him in this show. The Vulcan character Soval will also grow on you eventually.
Captain Archer - I've been thinking about this lately. He doesn't get much respect, partly because the writers give him some stupid decisions to make, but mostly because he is the first leading man Captain who isn't a walking embodiment of awesomeness. Unlike Kirk, and Picard, and even Sisko, he's genuinely flawed. He's a decent man who tries damn hard and generally manages to get the job done. But he has a lot of self doubt, is a poor public speaker, and is only really socially comfortable with a few close friends. In a way, this makes his achievements more impressive.
(I've excluded Janeway from this discussion because, well, she has issues.)
And unlike most of the haters, they've actually watched the whole thing a couple of times.
ENT is inconsistent, so if viewing for the first time, I think being forewarned of good and bad eps will help you get through it.
It will also help if you start by buying into the unique look of the show (a bit clunky and submarine-like), and get to like some of the characters. Trip and Malcolm are a couple of fan faves; I'm surprised Dr Phlox doesn't get more love.
If you like Jeff Combs, you'll love him in this show. The Vulcan character Soval will also grow on you eventually.
Captain Archer - I've been thinking about this lately. He doesn't get much respect, partly because the writers give him some stupid decisions to make, but mostly because he is the first leading man Captain who isn't a walking embodiment of awesomeness. Unlike Kirk, and Picard, and even Sisko, he's genuinely flawed. He's a decent man who tries damn hard and generally manages to get the job done. But he has a lot of self doubt, is a poor public speaker, and is only really socially comfortable with a few close friends. In a way, this makes his achievements more impressive.
(I've excluded Janeway from this discussion because, well, she has issues.)
I think you'll find ENT fans are pretty fairminded about the virtues and failings of their show.
And unlike most of the haters, they've actually watched the whole thing a couple of times.
Well I have this problem too with a lot of trek characters, given the utopia nature of trek universe many seem a little far removed from normal people which has always made it difficult for me to relate to them. Out of all the trek I have seen DS9 and ENT have to most characters that I can relate to.
I mean in Voyager considering they had no resources everything carried on and all the characters were acting like they were aboard a Starship back in the Alpha quadrant, none of the characters particularly felt like they were confronting any kind of adversity that I would have expected from a actual crew stranded 70 years from home.
With Captain Archer, I have always seen him was that he was never captain material, he was more of a PR exercise, in that he was the Engine designers son and being the first man out there he had no rules or guidelines to follow he was literally making it up as he went along which means not everything ended well. For me once I accepted that he was not captain material I actually liked his character.
It's interesting to think about the acting style in Trek. Who in the different casts seems like a sort of person you'd meet in real life? In TOS, I'd say only McCoy. TNG had Geordi, Crusher and Riker (maybe), but OTOH they had Picard, who was a bizarre theatrical presence (there is no region of the UK where people speak in that RADA accent). Subsequent crews were mixed. I'd say that, of the ENT cast, only the alien characters were heightened or unnatural in their performance, which represents progress or a terrible failing depending on your point of view.
I don't buy that he wasn't captain material. In terms of policy decisions and managing his crew he did as well as any of his successors. He lacked social graces, but I'm not sure how big a part that plays in attaining high rank in the real world.
I probably worded it badly, he was not a really the best choice when the ship first launched, I think the turned into a pretty decent captain by the end of the series but he took time to grow in that role, I am certain that there had to be better qualified people out there who could possibly have been better right from the off.
So while I said not captain material, he might have had some of the skills such as the ability to make decision in a crunch yet he was not there yet when Enterprise first launched.
Hopefully I explained it better this time
I probably worded it badly, he was not a really the best choice when the ship first launched, I think the turned into a pretty decent captain by the end of the series but he took time to grow in that role, I am certain that there had to be better qualified people out there who could possibly have been better right from the off.
So while I said not captain material, he might have had some of the skills such as the ability to make decision in a crunch yet he was not there yet when Enterprise first launched.
Hopefully I explained it better this time
I think he got the job partly in recognition of his father's contribution.
Er, not really. What qualities did he specifically lack? I mean, apart from experience with deep space exploration, which at that time no-one had.I probably worded it badly, he was not a really the best choice when the ship first launched, I think the turned into a pretty decent captain by the end of the series but he took time to grow in that role, I am certain that there had to be better qualified people out there who could possibly have been better right from the off.
So while I said not captain material, he might have had some of the skills such as the ability to make decision in a crunch yet he was not there yet when Enterprise first launched.
Hopefully I explained it better this time
BlueStuff,
I'm one that really doesn't have a "favorite trek". I tend to consider the one I'm currently watching as my favorite.
Enterprise suffered from a few things. It was on a network that only had expose to max 80% of the households that a syndicated show (TNG and DS9) had. It was moved to Friday night and preempted many times. Folks that were watching it found it hard to record/watch all the episode as they were aired.
Also, while I tend to take what each spin-off gives us and realize they are all trek and unique, many just couldn't get past their preconceptions of what 'Enterprise' had to be. When they turned it on and saw it was the same type show as TNG and VOY they just turned away.
Now don't get me wrong, Enterprise isn't perfect and it definitely has it's issues, but it isn't nearly as bad as the bashers would lead you to believe.
I just finished grading all the episode in Season 1 over at Jammer's site and I was surprised that ENT: S1 graded out over 3 stars. It's actually pretty good; definitely stronger than TNG & DS9's season 1. Now Season 2 isn't going as well, it has some classics but it also has quite a few stinkers.
The Network decided that Enterprise needed a continuous storyline and we got the "Xindi", which could very easily been the "Xendi" mentioned in TNG. That would have made lots of folks happier. Season 3 is considered a huge improvement by many. While I don't agree with most that think ENT S1&2 are horrible, I think Season 3 is pretty suspenseful and awesome. I'm really glad I got to "binge watch" it on DVD's. Having to wait a week, or sometimes 2 for the next episode would have been frustrating.
Berman and Braga decided to bring in some writing help and about mid-way through season 3, they hired Manny Coto to take the writing lead. A tremendous decision that if made sooner might have saved Enterprise. Season 4 is, IMO, one of the finest seasons ever produced in trek. Fantastic story arcs that reveal prequel plots and ideas most identify as more what a prequel to TOS should have been. Sadly, when Enterprise gave the "fans" what they were asking for they didn't flock back to see it. Just take my advise (and others) and don't watch the last episode.
My recommendation, especially since Enterprise is on Netflix, is watch it from star to finish without reading too much of the hate. I think you'll find you'll enjoy it. It does get into some politics in Season 4, but not nearly to the extent of DS9.
Enjoy, I envy those that are watching any trek for the first time. Brings back wonderful memories for me.
He was a bit of a hothead for starters.
Berman and Braga decided to bring in some writing help and about mid-way through season 3, they hired Manny Coto to take the writing lead. A tremendous decision that if made sooner might have saved Enterprise. Season 4 is, IMO, one of the finest seasons ever produced in trek. Fantastic story arcs that reveal prequel plots and ideas most identify as more what a prequel to TOS should have been. Sadly, when Enterprise gave the "fans" what they were asking for they didn't flock back to see it. Just take my advise (and others) and don't watch the last episode.
I often wonder if part of the reason season 4 was successful was the change to 2 and 3 part arc's for much of that season, more than 1 episode give you much more room to play with than a singular 1-off episode or at least that's one of the things I enjoyed about the final season.
He also lacked diplomacy, something that really should have been high on the list of qualities needed for a captain of the first vessel out of Earth in deep space, first impressions and all that. I am sure I can give a longer list when I have put all my thoughts together first.
Given the number of aliens that were a lot stronger than the federation and some of them with short tempers. It was almost suicidal to send someone like Archer as trail blazer.
It wasn't successful per se, it was showing net improvement vis a vis the preceding seasons. The damage done by the first two seasons was irreversible though. The writers should have sensed that and made season 4 types of episodes during the uninspired first season.
My thought is that the first two seasons are are like TNG: Continued with its episodic format and optimistic viewpoint, while the latter two seasons are more like DS9: Continued with darker themes and multi-episode arcs. In other words, Enterprise is more of the same. But I don't think that's a bad thing. I enjoyed those series very much, and although at the time I was ready for a bit of a change, nowadays I'm grateful for four more seasons of my favorite shows.
The network at that time specifically wanted season 1 to be very episodic so mostly 1-off episodes yet I always got the feeling that that type of show format was mostly on the decline with people wanting multiple episode arcs or seasonwide arcs, this is not just in star trek but its TV shows in general.
They should get more in touch with what the people want.
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