General Star Trek starship thread.

[Arpy]

In the costly war against the Romulans, the Federation had to sign a dumb "Build no Cloaking Tech" treaty just to get peace.
As for the Klingons, we know that it was a fairly bloody war.
As for the Tzenkethi, they weren't mentioned in much detial.
The Cardassians were a border skirmish that did involve people, but it wasn't something we couldn't handle because the Cardassians were behind technologically.
The Dominion was very bloody and costly, WW2 scale.
As for the Borg, we got lucky / close called too many times. A lot of it "Plot Force" driven

Some thoughts on the wars:

The war with the Romulans happened before the Federation. The cloaking device treaty not only maintained peace for half a century but in that time the Romulans stopped expanding while the UFP ballooned. Who needs a cloak when you're getting everything you want? And the moment the Romulans reneg, the Feds have a phase-cloak lined up. Thank you, Science.

The Klingons are a much older civilization with and additional head start of Hurq technology. They're also an entire civilization dedicated to battle and they don't mind mind-boggling amounts of loss to Klingon health, happiness, and life. They're also slavers, corrupt at nearly every level, and genocidal. Still the Federation comes out on top. And it will do so even more with time as the Klingons fall behind technologically.

The Tzenkethi weren't mentioned in much detail but they lost and are barely mentioned in interstellar affairs.

The Cardassians lost millions despite their centuries of military rule. And they became a third rate power in the war with he Klingons, who, again, are now our allies, thanks not to our military might but our defense of them against the Romulans at Narendra III.

The Dominion is a 2000-year old expansionist empire. Thems the breaks. We're lucky the Organians don't decide to heed the lesser demons of their nature. Still the the Alliance managed to wrestle victory.

The Borg we did get lucky on but it was also luck that introduced them to us via Q. Maybe the self-proclaimed keepers of the universe allowed for a little of that after they made the intro. Still the Federation was more ready for them in FC than they were in BoBW, and it was thanks to R&D, not some massive shift Empress Georgiou would have been proud of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States
The US has got into plenty of wars in our history.
Most of those "Aggressive Fly By's have been with Russia / China as of late.

Right, we're [messing] with each other due to geopolitical and economic concerns that are not at all helped by us [messing] with each other. If one of those incidents goes badly, suddenly we're in an exponentially tenser environment that easily could lead to the bloodiest or perhaps last war. So much for Star Trek.

That's why going to war shouldn't be done so trivially. And maintenance, training, upkeep is vital IMO.

Again, it's not an either/or. Ro had just gotten back from advanced tactical training in "Preemptive Strike." I imagine she's a future Navy SEAL or something.

What we do is a mix of intidmidation factor, backing up our claims, securing our interests, and helping those when able to.

A vast military is meant for "Many Things", not just blowing up stuff. That's a overly simplistic view of the military.

I'm aware of that, but I'm also suspicious of how much oversight our Central Command gets. The Pentagon failed its long-overdue and staggeringly expensive audit recently. This after already wasting $125B no-one knows where. This after leading us into a multi-trillion-dollar imperial war under false pretenses in Gulf War II. This after previously and to this day sinking trillions into Afghanistan. (And the region is bad as ever, and we can't be bothered to help refugees fleeing the apocalypse.) I say this not to commence a political discussion but to make the point that all these ungodly sums of money go somewhere. They profit people and lobbies, and I think we need to have a far more frank discussion about that, in all its complexity, under the light of day, very unlike the discussions we have had time and again by the ruling class wheeling out the voodoo specter of National Security whenever they want to spend 54 cents on your every tax dollar. That doesn't just go away when there isn't an enemy to fight. That monster needs to be fed. And that may be the natural order of things, if we're to remember the Romulan Commander's lament in "Balance of Terror." The only way to win is not to play. And for that you need the fleet to be playing something else when it's not in war mode. And for that to be what it does most and primarily -- maybe that's why Starfleet isn't a military organization. And it's probably why the Federation will not only out-evolve the Klingons, but it's why it's already the most powerful entity in half the galaxy that everyone wants to do business with and looks to for law, culture, and leadership.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

The war with the Romulans happened before the Federation. The cloaking device treaty not only maintained peace for half a century but in that time the Romulans stopped expanding while the UFP ballooned. Who needs a cloak when you're getting everything you want? And the moment the Romulans reneg, the Feds have a phase-cloak lined up. Thank you, Science.

The Klingons are a much older civilization with and additional head start of Hurq technology. They're also an entire civilization dedicated to battle and they don't mind mind-boggling amounts of loss to Klingon health, happiness, and life. They're also slavers, corrupt at nearly every level, and genocidal. Still the Federation comes out on top. And it will do so even more with time as the Klingons fall behind technologically.

The Tzenkethi weren't mentioned in much detail but they lost and are barely mentioned in interstellar affairs.

The Cardassians lost millions despite their centuries of military rule. And they became a third rate power in the war with he Klingons, who, again, are now our allies, thanks not to our military might but our defense of them against the Romulans at Narendra III.

The Dominion is a 2000-year old expansionist empire. Thems the breaks. We're lucky the Organians don't decide to heed the lesser demons of their nature. Still the the Alliance managed to wrestle victory.

The Borg we did get lucky on but it was also luck that introduced them to us via Q. Maybe the self-proclaimed keepers of the universe allowed for a little of that after they made the intro. Still the Federation was more ready for them in FC than they were in BoBW, and it was thanks to R&D, not some massive shift Empress Georgiou would have been proud of.

If you look at the maps, the Romulans never stopped expanding, they just line up against our borders, but are still expanding in other directions.

The Federation ends up losing a lot everytime it fights a war with the Klingons, their brutality, perseverance, willingness to do the worst that can be done, yet we're the ones always finding ways to sue for peace. It usually takes extreme circumstances to get that peace.

The Tzenkethi in the expanded Novel Universe are part of the Typhon pact, and StarFleet along with Section 31 does everything in our power to sabotage the Typhon Pact members because we know their dangerous. Covert Ops along with clandestine operations is what helps on the bigger galactic stage when not at war.

The Cardassians are our allies because the way that the Dominion used them as Cannon Fodder and Damar led the resistance which the UFP helped out. That's why they are our allies now. Because their military leadership screwed them up.

Yet the Dominion is still in control & power on their side of the Quadrant as of the late 24th century. Yes they lost in the Alpha/Beta Quadrant, but they are perfectly alive & well in the Gamma Quadrant.

R&D was necessary to survive the battle and hold the line before the events of FC took place, otherwise the Enterprise wouldn't be able to get there in time before they start the Borg Assimilation of Earth which would be a much harder problem to solve. And a massive shift doesn't mean that we become a Genocidal Force.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Right, we're [messing] with each other due to geopolitical and economic concerns that are not at all helped by us [messing] with each other. If one of those incidents goes badly, suddenly we're in an exponentially tenser environment that easily could lead to the bloodiest or perhaps last war. So much for Star Trek.

Guess what the same thing almost happens in DS9 and in VOY. If it wasn't for intervention, the UFP could be finished. That's life, not everything is sunshine & rainbows. You do what you can, with the resources & intelligence that you have at hand, to make the best possible outcome.

Again, it's not an either/or. Ro had just gotten back from advanced tactical training in "Preemptive Strike." I imagine she's a future Navy SEAL or something.

No, they never mentioned anything about her getting training in the form of "SEALS" like ground combat. What her "Advanced Training" was seems to be more covert undercover ops focused along with specialized communications. But we don't know the full extent.

And nothing wrong with training & preparedness. That's what militaries generally do. You can't expect a force to be ready without training. And when the fighting does come, you fight with what you have, not what you wish you had. Ergo preparation is key in everything in life.

StarFleet's Exploration side allows them to study, understand, expand knowledge, make allies, gain friends. It also lets us do recon, prepare for worst case scenarios, expand our understanding of what can go wrong when you're out there in the deepness of space.

I'm aware of that, but I'm also suspicious of how much oversight our Central Command gets. The Pentagon failed its long-overdue and staggeringly expensive audit recently. This after already wasting $125B no-one knows where. This after leading us into a multi-trillion-dollar imperial war under false pretenses in Gulf War II. This after previously and to this day sinking trillions into Afghanistan. (And the region is bad as ever, and we can't be bothered to help refugees fleeing the apocalypse.) I say this not to commence a political discussion but to make the point that all these ungodly sums of money go somewhere. They profit people and lobbies, and I think we need to have a far more frank discussion about that, in all its complexity, under the light of day, very unlike the discussions we have had time and again by the ruling class wheeling out the voodoo specter of National Security whenever they want to spend 54 cents on your every tax dollar. That doesn't just go away when there isn't an enemy to fight. That monster needs to be fed. And that may be the natural order of things, if we're to remember the Romulan Commander's lament in "Balance of Terror." The only way to win is not to play. And for that you need the fleet to be playing something else when it's not in war mode. And for that to be what it does most and primarily -- maybe that's why Starfleet isn't a military organization. And it's probably why the Federation will not only out-evolve the Klingons, but it's why it's already the most powerful entity in half the galaxy that everyone wants to do business with and looks to for law, culture, and leadership.

Again, projecting our Pentagon's problems onto StarFleet Command. In a society that doesn't have "Money", resources are abundant, having a large StarFleet that covers literally thousands of worlds with Current day Earth Like populations and beyond along with countless colonies is quite an endeavor. One that a paltry fleet size like the 24th century StarFleet couldn't imagine to field. Given future automation & manufacturing along with resource access, allies, and the WW2 like losses in the Dominion War, I'm sure all the member species / planets wants a more beefed up StarFleet so that they don't experience that kind of loss again.

Look at what happened after WW2, the USA became a Super Power and our Navy became even larger / more capable.
That capability, force projection, willingness to use it when appropriate, is what keeps us safe and on top.

Yes the Pentagon has failed the audit, I've known about that LONG before those reports ever came out. That being said, with the right leadership, those problems can be fixed. As far as the general Lobbying issue, it's going to take a lot of hard work to bring modern day lobbying in mind. I know you're probably like me, want to kill lobbying like a stake through a vampires heart, but we can't do it alone. We need to get more people like us who aren't corrupted by greed or power lust. We need to get into power to change rules & regulations to do so.

Even during the final episode of Voyager, they still talked about political corruption on Earth in the news report, but given the "Moneyless" society, corruption will always exist as long as people have greed for power, wealth, material, etc. That's why it takes eternal vigilance, education, and willingness to throw the book at those who would use those kind of powers to abuse the system. The same is with lobbying.

As far as Afghanistan, we were more than justified in going in after 9/11 and the way the Taliban protected Osama Bin Laden and his terrorist network. Don't forget that during the 1980's after we gave the USSR their own taste of "Vietnam" by helping the locals fight against the Soviet Invasion, we trained up a insurgent force that helped stop the USSR. That's part of what led to the eventual breakdown & collapse of the USSR. That being said, the insurgency led to the Afghanistan Civil War where the Taliban came out on top and created their corrupt Sharia Law infest regime. We have a moral obligation to take out the Taliban on multiple levels given the kind of people they are. And we're installing a far better society, a freer society then what they had. Women there now can get educated in the city areas which is a huge step up. Yes the Taliban & ISIS/Daesh are still around, we are working on eradicating them.

But taking the literal bottom of the barrel most corrupt nation known as Afghanistan and working on fixing them isn't an over night operation, it literally will take decades to fix the problem. And yes, it is morally a worthwhile one along with a geo politically good move in the long run. Spreading Democracy and Western Values is worth it, even if you have to slowly crawl through the mud in the most difficult parts of the world to effect change.

As far as Gulf War 2, that was based on bad intel from our own intelligence community, 9/11 just happened and all our data pointed to Saddam gathering WMD's. The reality is that some Iraqi Chemist claimed to be working on a mobile Bio Weapon WMD, the truth is that he manipulated the US into taking revenge on Saddam who did a lot of bad things to his family and wanted revenge. We got played by somebody who had it out against Saddam who did horrific things.

Saddam ain't no saint either, it was a matter of time before we had to deal with him. I don't think we should've dealt with him while we were busy in Afghanistan, but that's my take on the issue given hind sight with future knowledge.

Don't get me started on the screw ups that Paul Bremer caused when Bush Jr. appointed him, that's a whole separate issue.

As far as the "National Security" apparatus, we do need to have a severe discussion, the secret courts thing is complete and utter BS along with secret rulings and lingo that sounds like it means one thing, and completely means another. But that's a seperate problem that needs to be dealt with. It's going to take a very long time to abolish those secret courts.

 

[Charles Markov]

Well, I don't have a retro Akira, but D.M. Phoenix did explore a similar idea, proposing the Saber-class was originally built in the Galaxy design-style, and the version we all know and love is a stripped-down, reinforced refit.

ooh I quite like that.

 

[Unicron]

One thing I've wondered about on starships is the idea of "critical hits." We saw a lot of this in the DS9 battles, no doubt in large part for dramatic effect (and it was easier than trying to do shield effects on lots of ships like we saw in TNG). Kruge's ship sort of got one on the Grissom in TSFS, but that's more due to the Grissom not having time to get shields up. Would it be fair to say certain parts of a vessel are more at risk for a catastrophic effect from damage, as we saw in non-combat cases like TNG's "Cause & Effect"?

 

[Timo]

Not only "fair", but "expected". That is, we know that ships in the real world are doomed by single hits at critical or vulnerable areas, and sometimes the builders of the ships are aware of those areas, sometimes not.

We don't know whether the Grissom had shields up or not, tho. It's not as if shields=shields=shields, after all: a proper warship might shrug off direct hits from weak guns with utter contempt (say, the Klingons in "Return to Grace"), while a civilian mining rig might be torn to pieces by a single warship while having shields fully up (say, Nero's Narada in the 2009 movie), or vice versa (see the same movie, only a bit earlier on).

When shields are up, the odds of scoring "critical hits" are likely to go down, as the shields would be expected to dissipate the fire. Nevertheless, our heroes aim at "their weapons" or "their engines" even against fully shielded opponents, and sometimes succeed.

But what gets hurt in the general case when one fires at raised shields without aiming at critical spots? The shields go down in increments, and then slowly recover - but sometimes the shield generators themselves might be hurt, either through sustained fire and feedback, or then because the enemy rolls a double-twelve and scores a "critical hit" at the generator itself. The Grissom might have suffered either type of fate: the Klingon gunner might have used too much force, making the whole power chain cascade till destruction, or (accidentally or ignorantly) aimed at the wrong piece of hardware, say, the warp core.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Unicron]

That's a valid point. Certainly in real history, there are examples where a lucky or very accurate hit on an enemy vessel triggered a very destructive reaction, even if that wasn't necessarily the intent on the attacker's part. And while the Battletech franchise doesn't really see this happen as much with capital warships, it's very much a concern for mechs and other vehicles such that there are specialized options to insure against it (chiefly CASE). And even that system would still leave the damaged vehicle essentially crippled, but would ensure that an ammunition hit wouldn't totally destroy it. There are mentions in a few sources of smaller vessels like dropships being destroyed or at least effectively so when the enemy got a good hit on their engines and knocked them out of flight. VTOLs have a special design consideration in being very agile compared to many other units, but also more vulnerable to damage because you can't put a lot of armor onto the rotors to protect them.

There's also the argument in cases where the enemy is very advanced technologically, like the Borg, who have the benefit of being able to adapt to many other forms of weapon relatively easily (or at least eventually, in most cases). B5's "Legend of the Rangers" had G'kar make the interesting remark that the engines are usually the last target in an attack, because they use heavy shielding to protect the crew from energy and radiation. While crippling an enemy is often desirable, it was inferred that weapons and other systems would usually be the first targets. The same might be assumed for ships in Trek, Star Wars and other franchises.

 

[David cgc]

B5's "Legend of the Rangers" had G'kar make the interesting remark that the engines are usually the last target in an attack, because they use heavy shielding to protect the crew from energy and radiation. While crippling an enemy is often desirable, it was inferred that weapons and other systems would usually be the first targets.

IIRC, the same scene said that the weapons would be the first target for "called shots" in a normal battle, because the munitions and other volatiles involved were more likely to set off secondary explosions. Fighter bays are probably also a choice hit, because of the fuel lines. That was a point in the nuBSG miniseries, where they couldn't wait to evacuate a section near an out-of-control fire because the flames were poised to ignite the launch bay fuel supply at any second, along with a later episode where navigating a debris field after a space battle was especially dangerous because of all the unexploded ordinance floating around waiting to be set off.

 

[Charles Markov]

I always assumed that in star trek engines are not typically targeted due to heavy shielding over them like mentioned above. The first things targeted rather are weapons, sensors and the deflector arrays. Sensibly the bridge would also be the first thing targeted, but this is rarely the case.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I always assumed that in star trek engines are not typically targeted due to heavy shielding over them like mentioned above. The first things targeted rather are weapons, sensors and the deflector arrays. Sensibly the bridge would also be the first thing targeted, but this is rarely the case.

In all of Star Trek History, to my knowledge, the bridge has only been blown apart 2x on screen.

That's reason enough for me to want to burry them in the hull somewhere and ignore the old design rules about their placement.

In my Ship designs where the old Bridge and Planetary Sensor dome was located on the opposite side of the saucer, opposite from the Bridge module; I placed new structural protrusions to take it's place

1) There will be a 360 Mess Hall for everybody to eat at the top & socialize
2) The opposite side will have a 360 Bar / Cafe for the crew to rest & relax in.

The Phenomanal 360 Spherical Room views is best used as a place to eat, drink, and hang out together in off hours.

The Bridge & Secondary Bridge will be located else where in the ships structure and buried & armored along with a Secondary Bridge if there is Saucer Separation capability.

The Secondary Bridge will ALSO be buried.

I'm sorry, but having the Bridge on top is stupid & fundamentally bad design for the sake of Gene's Idealism.

Nothing is lost by burying the Bridge in the Saucer or StarDrives sections.

 

[Ithekro]

Nothing is gained either.

A phaser or photon torpedoes can go through the entire hull of a ship anyway. Putting it deeper into the ship only provides a false sense of protection over anywhere else on the ship. Putting the bridge on the top or bottom does have two potential advantages, depending on design. Easy access to the outside (airlock, or cut out of a bulkhead) in the event of the area needed to be evacuated on a planet's surface (or even in space with a proper suit), or allow for the entire section to be ejected if designed to do so as its own lifeboat.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Not having agiant obvious bulls eye sitting on top helps. Making the Aliens have to guess where your bridge is vs having the giant Bridge module sit on top.

Even in the ST: Generations movie where the Klingon Photon Torpedoes knew the Enterprise-D's Shield frequency, it only ripped out small chunks of hull instead of just 1 shotting the enterprise.
If you put the bridge on top and the stupid security flaw happens where your static shield frequency slips because of a hidden camera in Geordi's VISOR occurs, the bridge could've potentially died in 1 shot.

In ST:ENT there was a alternate timeline where the bridge literally was blown up.

And Ablative Armor / redundant shields can help alleviate those issues along with burying the bridge within the Saucer or StarDrive in a unspecified location.

We've never seen them use the Bridge module as a life boat.

Some species were using Neutronium Alloy by the end of VOY, which I presume the Federation will eventually figure out how to do.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Unicron]

I don't really see a top bridge as a bullseye myself, and I think one could make the argument on a design like the Galaxy it's adequately protected to a degree. It's not any more of an extra-vulnerable target than a modern carrier's island would be, IMO. There's also the argument that, with the apparent sensitivity of scanners in Trek, putting the bridge deeper into the ship isn't automatically going to increase its security. It just means it's potentially closer to other systems that would be a hazard if the ship takes heavy damage, and would be less likely to function in an emergency capacity because it's buried deep.

It's kind of like a book I've been reading describing how carrier warfare evolved in WWII, and how the designers both learned how to make carriers better and also had to balance different design elements to get the more optimal configuration. If you put more armor on a flight deck, you can resist bombs and torpedoes a bit better, but you also sacrifice some of the support elements for the aircraft. Meaning you might have fewer aircraft than trying to maximize the total you can carry, giving the carrier more strategic punch. But it's always a balance under the best possible design, and that's still true with modern ships.

The author also goes into some good detail about the myths and confusion regarding the role of carriers versus that of battleships, and how the two classes were deployed during the Pacific campaigns. While other authors, in my experience, have been a bit too quick to infer that the battleships became practically obsolete with the advent of carriers, that conclusion doesn't seem to be borne out by how the battleships performed in the Pacific theater alongside carriers. In quite a few battles, they held their own against large attacks of Japanese aircraft (some of whom attempted kamikaze strikes as well as normal ones) and partially vindicated the between-wars argument that aircraft groups could be shot down before they could effectively cripple or destroy an enemy battleship, under some conditions. The battleships were, by design, intended to take a lot of punishment and deal a lot in return, so one could argue they were vindicated in that respect (if ultimately less versatile than the role of the modern carrier).

 

[Henoch]

In the entire TOS series run, the Enterprise only took hits from "below" into the saucer. (Same special effect used over and over) In-universe, this is by tactical positioning of the ship with the bow up to protect the bridge, impulse engines, main power distribution connections, upper decks and the front of warp nacelles. The underside of the ship had extra shielding (circular bands around the saucer bottom) and its main weapon array is located there to engage the enemy that is shooting at them. In addition, any attacks on the underside will have to pass through the navigation deflectors giving further protection to the ship. The underside is also positioned toward the planet-side in case the someone on the planet takes pot shots at them. I assume that the underside of the engineering hull either has extra shielding or armor, or there are noncritical resources down below (i.e. the hold). In the two episodes (Journey to Babel, Elaan of Troyius) where the Enterprise was struggling, the faster alien ship was flanking her, getting around to the sides/rear, because she couldn't maneuver/rotate fast enough to keep her front up orientation to protect herself and to use the weapon array effectively.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Yet by TNG era, ships were all over the place and the Enterprise-D had it's side exposed to the surface of the planet more often than not.

Weapons are equally well placed all around for all aspect firing arcs & coverage.

 

[Ithekro]

It would imply that late 23rd and 24th century shielding and armor is such that the bridge needs not additional protection and having it on top of the ship is just a good a place as any. Having it on deck one seems to be a convenience thing. Its in the same place on about all starships, so finding it isn't a problem for new crew members. Its away from ship generated radiation sources. The module appears to be a plug and play design allowing for easy replacement and customization options between starbase layovers. Different startships of the same class might have very different bridges, and some starships (USS Enterprise-A) might have seemingly completely different modules over its lifespan for various reasons. Thus having it on top of the ship allows for easy removal and replacement as needed.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

With Modern Transporter Technology, they can just beam in the parts needed. It stands to reason that they can easily bury the Bridge, and literally just beam in the entire Bridge Module.

Transport in, Plug & Play. Still have Neutronium Alloy Bath Tub surrounding the encapsulated Bridge Module.

They've shown in the past that Transporter technology can steal fixed in place items from the ship on ST:VOY with that episode where the alien thieves came in and mugged Voyager when they were stuck in that Torus shaped anomaly.

 

[Henoch]

Yet by TNG era, ships were all over the place and the Enterprise-D had it's side exposed to the surface of the planet more often than not.

Weapons are equally well placed all around for all aspect firing arcs & coverage.

The Enterprise-D was a heavy slug. It looked like it was stationary in combat. It let multiple foes gang up on her. The TOS Enterprise was fast and nimble. It dictated the battle and brought the fight to the enemy (in a bow up position) "...with the right man at the helm".

 

[Timo]

The underside is also positioned toward the planet-side in case the someone on the planet takes pot shots at them.

Umm, no. The belly of the ship was never oriented towards the planet in any of the effects shots - it was always the port side (or starboard if you were in the Mirror Universe) instead.

For whatever reason, the viewscreen showed the planet being towards the floor of the bridge - a convention that remained in later shows that featured ships orbiting in different orientations. That is, in ENT; while DS9 also showed orientations differing from the TOS/TNG norm, the runabouts didn't have viewscreens, and the Defiant rarely did viewscreen shots.

The Enterprise-D was a heavy slug. It looked like it was stationary in combat. It let multiple foes gang up on her. The TOS Enterprise was fast and nimble. It dictated the battle and brought the fight to the enemy (in a bow up position) "...with the right man at the helm".

Seems to be all about that quote, yes: the E-D demonstrated more onscreen agility than the E-nil ever did, rolling and spinning like no ship in the '60s could afford to do. Picard or his helmspeople just chose not to waste time with such rolling and spinning in battle where it would have made no difference (and indeed made none in those DS9 fights where the Defiant danced around her opponents yet never dodged a blast or protected a soft flank as far as we could see or tell). Did Sulu?

We saw no signs of aggressive maneuvering from the inside, either, although we did get the one "Elaan of Troyius" quote about "pivoting" made possible by warp drive when "wallowing" had been the only option at impulse. Perhaps Sulu just happened to be a highly conservative or inexperienced helmsman who always oriented his ship so that the ventral forward phasers faced the adversary before taking a shot?

Timo Saloniemi