Spoilers General Disco Chat Thread

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I'm seeing a lot of team work this season.

You are correct, but it still feels Stamets is working mainly from the margins.

Plus the team action is not one team together as much as it is a couple of sub-teams doing their own thing that comes together at the end, and comes together through plot rather than through character interaction.

 

[eschaton]

I don't need a Saru-centric or a Stamets-centric episode. I just want them contributing with the others as more of an ensemble.

Admittedly, Saru has been "sort of" front-and-center in the ensemble action, but not Stamets. Brooding/depressed Stamets got old real fast, and they need to get him back up to being excited about adventure, so he can join in on the action with the rest of the cast.

As l've said, the issue with Stamets is all he is is "the spore guy" and in a gay relationship. Everything about his character is either filtered through mycelial technobabble or his relationship with Culber. He literally lacks a third dimension to his character.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

As l've said, the issue with Stamets is all he is is "the spore guy" and in a gay relationship. Everything about his character is either filtered through mycelial technobabble or his relationship with Culber. He literally lacks a third dimension to his character.

In his first few scenes introducing the character, Stamets was shown as capable and intelligent -- and a bit prickly, but prickly in a charming sort of way (think Toby Ziegler from The West Wing). They need to bring back more of that character we first saw.

I think one way to do that would be to mentor Tilly, but not be afraid to be critical of her in order to mentor her properly, such as he did when he advised her to "say fewer things."

 

[Lord Garth]

As l've said, the issue with Stamets is all he is is "the spore guy" and in a gay relationship. Everything about his character is either filtered through mycelial technobabble or his relationship with Culber. He literally lacks a third dimension to his character.

This I'll agree with. They need to find something else to do with him. They'll use the Spore Drive to find the Red Angels and he'll be prominent when Culber makes his Grand Return, however that is, but if the Discovery is to lean less on the Spore Drive and he stays, then he needs a new job. They have to show what else he can do.

 

[Vger23]

This I'll agree with. They need to find something else to do with him. They'll use the Spore Drive to find the Red Angels and he'll be prominent when Culber makes his Grand Return, however that is, but if the Discovery is to lean less on the Spore Drive and he stays, then he needs a new job. They have to show what else he can do.

Agree, and this scares me too, because the show already features two Science Officers in the form of Burnham and Saru. And clearly Stamets is a science guy (as is Tilly).

Of course, LaForge went from a Lt JG stationed at Conn to the frigging Chief Engineer of Starfleets newest, most complex ship...so there is that.

Not to mention Sulu going from Astrosciences to Chief Helm Officer....

 

[Nerys Myk]

You are correct, but it still feels Stamets is working mainly from the margins.

Plus the team action is not one team together as much as a couple of sub-teams doing their own thing that (through plot, rather than through character interaction) comes together at the end.

He's down in the Spore Room and most of the team work takes place on the bridge, so like McCoy or Scotty, they have to go get him or he has to wander up to the bridge. Maybe with the new Science Lab adjacent the bridge, he'll have reason to be up there.

 

[Quinton]

I’ve been thinking about how I’d rank the main cast characters thus far this season since I did something similar around the midway point of last season. I’m including Michelle Yeoh here even though she’s technically credited as “Special Guest Star” whenever she appears, because she really feels like a slightly less-visible main character to me.

Michael Burnham: 7.5
Christopher Pike: 9.5
Saru: 8.5
Sylvia Tilly: 9.0
Paul Stamets: 8.5
Ash Tyler: 8.0
Philippa Georgiou: 9.0

Put another way,
Pike > Tilly = Georgiou > Saru = Stamets > Tyler > Burnham

Here’s what I had to say about the season 1 team around 1x08 or so. You’ll note I didn’t include Georgiou at this time because... well. Yeah.

Tilly > Lorca > Stamets > Burnham > Saru > Tyler

And here’s where I ended up after season finished.

Tilly > Stamets > Saru > Georgiou > Lorca > Tyler > Burnham

So it might seem like I’ve liked Burnham less over time, right? Remarkably, that’s not actually the case. I pegged her at a 5.5 and then a 7.0 as season 1 went on. The nice thing about Discovery this year is that everybody is getting boosted. True Trek spinoff fashion, eh?

Here are a couple of noteworthy cast thought alterations I’ve had over the course of the first 18 episodes. For one thing, I was fairly disappointed with Saru for the first seven to nine episodes or so. I saw Doug Jones working his ass off to give the character life but I found him woefully underutilized and lacking in compelling content. Even his dialogue was kind of meh. Saru was like a 4.5 for me initially and I hated that the resident “alien with a unique perspective” character was a weak link. As time went on he improved dramatically. I’m damned glad for it.

Tyler got a lot better once our popular hypothesis about his, um, special origin, was confirmed. Shazad Latif was given more meaty material at this time, and both his character and Sonequa’s benefited from the touching scenes they shared. I’ve never been a huge “Burnler” shipper but the relationship has still been a net positive overall.

Lastly. Lorca took a tumble when his true identity was unveiled. I’m not a hardcore anti on that particular thread, but I do think Jason Isaacs’ terrific character lost something big when his moral grey turned downright obsidian. He was compelling because he was willing to break the rules for his perception of the greater good. I guess in a twisted way that could still be said to have applied right on down to his bitter end, but it’s not the same at all. I had him at a 9.0 and he sank to a 7.5. Still good, and I will admit it was fun watching Isaacs ham it up to 11 in 1x13, but man. Kind of unfortunate.

My roommates/best friends were even bigger Lorca marks than I was. Every week when we boot up Discovery one of them sobs that she misses Lorca. Her “space bae,” lol. I’ve been feeding her my prediction that we will eventually meet the Primeverse’s Gabriel Lorca despite any evidence to the contrary. I hope it doesn’t turn out to be false comfort.

 

[eschaton]

This I'll agree with. They need to find something else to do with him. They'll use the Spore Drive to find the Red Angels and he'll be prominent when Culber makes his Grand Return, however that is, but if the Discovery is to lean less on the Spore Drive and he stays, then he needs a new job. They have to show what else he can do.

I honestly think Anthony Rapp isn't returning for the third season, though it's just conjecture. First, his character already established a desire to leave Discovery - he's just being held up by the current mission. Second, if the spore drive is really retired at the end of the season, the reason for him being on the ship goes poof. Third, depending upon how the series finale works in his "reuniting" with Culber (e.g., he might ascend to the magic mushroom kingdom) he could be written off the show.

Also, from an actorly perspective, he's been given short shrift by the writers. He only had two minutes onscreen in the episode last week! I mean, Harry Kim got more airtime than that on Voyager. I'd want to move on if I were him.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I honestly think Anthony Rapp isn't returning for the third season, though it's just conjecture. First, his character already established a desire to leave Discovery - he's just being held up by the current mission. Second, if the spore drive is really retired at the end of the season, the reason for him being on the ship goes poof. Third, depending upon how the series finale works in his "reuniting" with Culber (e.g., he might ascend to the magic mushroom kingdom) he could be written off the show.

Also, from an actorly perspective, he's been given short shrift by the writers. He only had two minutes onscreen in the episode last week! I mean, Harry Kim got more airtime than that on Voyager. I'd want to move on if I were him.

I assume they're building towards a major episode with Culber. It's only been three episodes.

 

[eschaton]

I assume they're building towards a major episode with Culber. It's only been three episodes.

I don't think this is going to be resolved until the penultimate or final episode - and I think it's going to be wrapped up together with the end of the seasonal arc.

Again, unfortunately they have only written Stamets as being about two things - spores and Culber. If Culber "comes back" he basically loses half of his characterization and just becomes the spore dude for the rest of the season, which is anticlimactic. Or they have to actually develop him as a character. Which would be my own preference, because I loved Stamets in the first part of Season 1, but I doubt they'll go there.

 

[Lord Garth]

I honestly think Anthony Rapp isn't returning for the third season, though it's just conjecture. First, his character already established a desire to leave Discovery - he's just being held up by the current mission. Second, if the spore drive is really retired at the end of the season, the reason for him being on the ship goes poof. Third, depending upon how the series finale works in his "reuniting" with Culber (e.g., he might ascend to the magic mushroom kingdom) he could be written off the show.

Also, from an actorly perspective, he's been given short shrift by the writers. He only had two minutes onscreen in the episode last week! I mean, Harry Kim got more airtime than that on Voyager. I'd want to move on if I were him.

You're the second person I've heard this from in under an hour in two different threads. There might possibly be something to this. Unless they take him a new direction. Storywise, at this juncture, it makes sense.

The only thing I can see that would prevent them from doing it would be the negative reaction. "First they killed off one gay character, now they're writing off the other!" That wouldn't look good at all.

 

[eschaton]

The only thing I can see what would prevent them from doing it would be the negative reaction. "First they killed off one gay character, now they're writing off the other!" That wouldn't look good at all.

I thought about that too. But if Jett Reno ends up upgraded to being main cast in the third season, and she's a lesbian like Tig Notaro, that might blunt the blow a bit.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Two times I read the end credits this season, I saw the name "Lt. Gen Rhys" and momentarily thought I missed a major appearance by a military General at some point in the episode.

Rhys has a confusing first name.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Two times I read the end credits this season, I saw the name "Lt. Gen Rhys" and momentarily thought I missed a major appearance by a military General at some point in the episode.

Rhys has a confusing first name.

You should meet his cousin Colonel West.

 

[DigificWriter]

I'm pretty sure Rhys' first name is pronounced so that it rhymes with Ben.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Two times I read the end credits this season, I saw the name "Lt. Gen Rhys" and momentarily thought I missed a major appearance by a military General at some point in the episode.

Rhys has a confusing first name.

Maj. Major Major Major (or simply Maj. Major) from "Catch-22"

 

[Midquest]

I honestly think Anthony Rapp isn't returning for the third season, though it's just conjecture.

I could see this judging by his screen time, but the thing is that they announced his departure in the premiere, which isn't something you typically do unless there's going to be a narrative reversal where he chooses to stay on board. I'd wager that he'll stick around, and that Hugh will return before the end of the season, personally.

 

[Lord Garth]

I’ve been thinking about how I’d rank the main cast characters thus far this season since I did something similar around the midway point of last season. I’m including Michelle Yeoh here even though she’s technically credited as “Special Guest Star” whenever she appears, because she really feels like a slightly less-visible main character to me.

Michael Burnham: 7.5
Christopher Pike: 9.5
Saru: 8.5
Sylvia Tilly: 9.0
Paul Stamets: 8.5
Ash Tyler: 8.0
Philippa Georgiou: 9.0

Put another way,
Pike > Tilly = Georgiou > Saru = Stamets > Tyler > Burnham

Here’s what I had to say about the season 1 team around 1x08 or so. You’ll note I didn’t include Georgiou at this time because... well. Yeah.

Tilly > Lorca > Stamets > Burnham > Saru > Tyler

And here’s where I ended up after season finished.

Tilly > Stamets > Saru > Georgiou > Lorca > Tyler > Burnham

So it might seem like I’ve liked Burnham less over time, right? Remarkably, that’s not actually the case. I pegged her at a 5.5 and then a 7.0 as season 1 went on. The nice thing about Discovery this year is that everybody is getting boosted. True Trek spinoff fashion, eh?

Here are a couple of noteworthy cast thought alterations I’ve had over the course of the first 18 episodes. For one thing, I was fairly disappointed with Saru for the first seven to nine episodes or so. I saw Doug Jones working his ass off to give the character life but I found him woefully underutilized and lacking in compelling content. Even his dialogue was kind of meh. Saru was like a 4.5 for me initially and I hated that the resident “alien with a unique perspective” character was a weak link. As time went on he improved dramatically. I’m damned glad for it.

Tyler got a lot better once our popular hypothesis about his, um, special origin, was confirmed. Shazad Latif was given more meaty material at this time, and both his character and Sonequa’s benefited from the touching scenes they shared. I’ve never been a huge “Burnler” shipper but the relationship has still been a net positive overall.

Lastly. Lorca took a tumble when his true identity was unveiled. I’m not a hardcore anti on that particular thread, but I do think Jason Isaacs’ terrific character lost something big when his moral grey turned downright obsidian. He was compelling because he was willing to break the rules for his perception of the greater good. I guess in a twisted way that could still be said to have applied right on down to his bitter end, but it’s not the same at all. I had him at a 9.0 and he sank to a 7.5. Still good, and I will admit it was fun watching Isaacs ham it up to 11 in 1x13, but man. Kind of unfortunate.

My roommates/best friends were even bigger Lorca marks than I was. Every week when we boot up Discovery one of them sobs that she misses Lorca. Her “space bae,” lol. I’ve been feeding her my prediction that we will eventually meet the Primeverse’s Gabriel Lorca despite any evidence to the contrary. I hope it doesn’t turn out to be false comfort.

I like Pike. I also like Ike...

I'm glad they found something for Tyler to do and a place for him to belong. If it's not Starfleet, or the Empire, what better place than Section 31?

Saru has grown as a character and grown into being a First Officer.

Tilly, I hope she's toned back down a little now that the over-grown spore is out of her.

Burnham this season... so far this doesn't feel like a Burnham Year. So far. Pike's Captain, Saru's XO. She's in good standing. But she did something horrible to Spock that she can't make amends for and saw Red Angels. I think she's kind of stuck where she is right now until Spock shows up. It happens sometimes. During this "lull", we're seeing more of other characters.

I've already discussed Stamets in the last few posts. No need to bring that up again.

Then there's Georgiou. She's bad ass. And helped L'Rell to get out of the mess she was in. As a Terran, she came up with a solution that someone from Starfleet wouldn't. I think she only lets What's His Name be in charge of Section 31 because she doesn't want to be the one to deal with all the paperwork. She likes what she does and that she can exist in the shadows. Which just so happens to fit for her metaphorically, since she's a Terran and can't stand being in the Federation's bright (spot)light.

 

[Cyrus]

There was a very short Discovery ad during Super Bowl. Had a picture of Spock with this caption “THE UNTOLD CHAPTER OF SPOCK BEGINS Star Trek Discovery season 2”.

 

[donners22]

There was a very short Discovery ad during Super Bowl. Had a picture of Spock with this caption “THE UNTOLD CHAPTER OF SPOCK BEGINS Star Trek Discovery season 2”.

One of the ads seemed to reveal a significant plot point - https://streamable.com/vl6ar