TheLonelySquire
Vice Admiral
Agreed. That's why topics of morality such as this should be discussed in TNZ and not here. IMO.
Gay Star Trek
- Thread starter Sulu's Lover
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Agreed. That's why topics of morality such as this should be discussed in TNZ and not here. IMO.
You mean there are sports besides NASCAR and Tarheel Basketball? I'll have to look into this. Oh yeah, upon further investigation there is a team called the Carolina Panthers... I thought they were a street gang, but turns out they play football (well, sort of...
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It started out that way... until a few came in to the thread dragging their soapboxes and bigotry, then it got off track as some felt the need to defend themselves.
The thread is titled "Gay Star Trek"... not misleading in any way, yet some came in, apparently, for the sole purpose of bashing.
TheLonelySquire
Vice Admiral
You mean there are sports besides NASCAR and Tarheel Basketball? I'll have to look into this. Oh yeah, upon further investigation there is a team called the Carolina Panthers... I thought they were a street gang, but turns out they play football (well, sort of...
Well, Steve Smith IS Superman! All he needs is a qb to get him the ball.
TheLonelySquire
Vice Admiral
I don't see bigotry here. Legitimate questions were posed by some and responded to.
And the fact that the title of the thread may be objectionable to some people doesn't mean they should be allowed to voice their objection in that very thread.
Free speech, bro.
Agreed with both, and bringing it back to Star Trek:
It is free speech. TLS is right. More so, we shouldn't be afraid of ideas. If an idea is awful, like racism or Stalinism, we can't be afraid to confront it and condemn it if necessary. The First Amendment, which doesn't apply here as this is a private board, but anyway, the First Amendment says it's OK to say most anything because most anything can't hurt you. Only YOU can hurt you.
But that's where Sector 7 is right, too. TLS, if the concept of people discussing gay aspects of Star Trek is objectionable to you, that implies you feel you can be hurt by it. But who's doing the hurting, TLS, especially on an anonymous Internet board? You're only hurting yourself. Homosexuality is not like Communism. Going totally stereotypical, I don't think you have to worry about a gay men's chorus storming your house. I'm old enough to remember when we were worried there was a Commie hiding under ever bed. I really think going there with a gay analogy would be a bad idea. A very bad idea.
It really is IDIC. Your being blue with antennae is not inherently scary to me. I have to be able to deal with you without being afraid of the outcome. Being Andorian isn't something that is either objectionable or unobjectionable; it simply is. So is being gay.
It is free speech. TLS is right. More so, we shouldn't be afraid of ideas. If an idea is awful, like racism or Stalinism, we can't be afraid to confront it and condemn it if necessary. The First Amendment, which doesn't apply here as this is a private board, but anyway, the First Amendment says it's OK to say most anything because most anything can't hurt you. Only YOU can hurt you.
But that's where Sector 7 is right, too. TLS, if the concept of people discussing gay aspects of Star Trek is objectionable to you, that implies you feel you can be hurt by it. But who's doing the hurting, TLS, especially on an anonymous Internet board? You're only hurting yourself. Homosexuality is not like Communism. Going totally stereotypical, I don't think you have to worry about a gay men's chorus storming your house. I'm old enough to remember when we were worried there was a Commie hiding under ever bed. I really think going there with a gay analogy would be a bad idea. A very bad idea.
It really is IDIC. Your being blue with antennae is not inherently scary to me. I have to be able to deal with you without being afraid of the outcome. Being Andorian isn't something that is either objectionable or unobjectionable; it simply is. So is being gay.
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Didn't you know Squire that anyone who disagrees with Sector 7 & his ilk are outomatically designated bigots? Funny how he shoots the hate & bigot oriented post, then turns around & claims it was another who did it.
"I don't think you have to worry about a gay men's chorus storming your house."
But you do have to worry about them storming the local grade school with no opt out forms in point of fact.
& as for A+B=C, look at it this way, Jill & Bill get together & make Phil. Bill & Steve get together, no Phil. Therefore, the result is different. To say they are the same is not true.
& gay couples have much more money per capita than straight couples do, so the crying is a bit tired. & they choose that lifestyle, ( ignoring their option of reorientation), therefore, the side effects or downsides to their lifestyle are self chosen, & not forced upon them as they claim.
"I don't think you have to worry about a gay men's chorus storming your house."
But you do have to worry about them storming the local grade school with no opt out forms in point of fact.
& as for A+B=C, look at it this way, Jill & Bill get together & make Phil. Bill & Steve get together, no Phil. Therefore, the result is different. To say they are the same is not true.
& gay couples have much more money per capita than straight couples do, so the crying is a bit tired. & they choose that lifestyle, ( ignoring their option of reorientation), therefore, the side effects or downsides to their lifestyle are self chosen, & not forced upon them as they claim.
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You will and glad to have another gay guy aboard! I was feeling a bit lonely.
Don't forget to vote for Sulu as the sexiest TOS character.
What?! There are other gay TOS fans besides me?!! I was beginning to feel like the Planet M113 salt vampire--the last of my race! ; )
Great link, too, btw!
we're taking over the place........got that Kracko? Scotty..send down more heaters...
Rob
^ Here I thought I had a shot at convincing TLS you weren't going to take over the world. Oh, well.
And, voggmo, I'll give you credit. That post is better written than your "he started it" one from upthread, although the sentiment is identical. Personally, I found the "he started it" argument stopped working sometime around the seventh grade.
I'll give TLS and Sector 7 both their ups. As much as it is obvious they disagree with each other a lot, they are also both trying to keep it civil and advance the conversation. "He started it" doesn't in either case.
Oh, well.And, voggmo, I'll give you credit. That post is better written than your "he started it" one from upthread, although the sentiment is identical. Personally, I found the "he started it" argument stopped working sometime around the seventh grade.
I'll give TLS and Sector 7 both their ups. As much as it is obvious they disagree with each other a lot, they are also both trying to keep it civil and advance the conversation. "He started it" doesn't in either case.
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Reorientation?? SERIOUSLY?
Here I was thinking ST fans would be more enlightened and forward thinking, I guess the shows progressive outlook is lost on many of it's fans
Here I was thinking ST fans would be more enlightened and forward thinking, I guess the shows progressive outlook is lost on many of it's fans
TheLonelySquire
Vice Admiral
^ Here I thought I had a shot at convincing TLS you weren't going to take over the world.
And, voggmo, I'll give you credit. That post is better written than your "he started it" one from upthread, although the sentiment is identical. Personally, I found the "he started it" argument stopped working sometime around the seventh grade.
I'll give TLS and Sector 7 both their ups. As much as it is obvious they disagree with each other a lot, they are also both trying to keep it civil and advance the conversation. "He started it" doesn't in either case.
Thank you, Outpost. I appreciate you r noticing that I am not bashing Sector or anyone here.
I do disagree with every aspect of of homosexuality. However, I do not think that makes the particular person a bad person. I speak out on the subject because I feel strongly about it and am willing to engage in debate about it. This can be done without it degenerating into a hate fest.
TheLonelySquire
Vice Admiral
Serenity Now, Cyrus. Serenity Now.
Outpost, Sector 7 called me & others a bigot,you give him "ups" for that??!! He reiterated it again in another post. When does hate labelling & name calling deserve an UP??!!
Reorientation?? SERIOUSLY?
Here I was thinking ST fans would be more enlightened and forward thinking, I guess the shows progressive outlook is lost on many of it's fans
Yes reorientation, a friend of mine did it,( as have thousands of others), I would consider it forward thinking. To denigrate it out of hand as nonforward thinking is nonforward thinking.
What IS nonforward thinking is the current thinking & attempt to denigrate a persons free will regarding this avenue of travel. I would think Star Trek fans would be forward thinking enough to respect another persons life choices. If they should choose reorientation, it is their inalienable right to do so. The backward thinking attempt to revoke psychotherapists licenses & outlaw it is reprehensible & very backward & oppressive in nature.
Reorientation?? SERIOUSLY?
Here I was thinking ST fans would be more enlightened and forward thinking, I guess the shows progressive outlook is lost on many of it's fans
Yes reorientation, a friend of mine did it,( as have thousands of others), I would consider it forward thinking. To denigrate it out of hand as nonforward thinking is nonforward thinking.
What IS nonforward thinking is the current thinking & attempt to denigrate a persons free will regarding this avenue of travel. I would think Star Trek fans would be forward thinking enough to respect another persons life choices. If they should choose reorientation, it is their inalienable right to do so. The backward thinking attempt to revoke psychotherapists licenses & outlaw it is reprehensible & very backward & oppressive in nature.
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Frankly, I'm more than a little disappointed that this thread has ended up where we now find ourselves. The people who disapprove of the lifestyle had every opportunity to simply bypass this thread and post in another one. And the people who live that lifestyle had every opportunity to ignore the detractors and move on.
Every time we have one of these threads in here I'm hopeful that it will be the one where rational discourse occurs and people disagree in a civil manner. Every time I'm let down. And that's a very telling statement.
You know what voggmo? I had to deal with people like you in the Deep South in the 1960's because, God forbid, black people might mingle with the whites. Fortunately, that kind of bigotry and reasoning has virtually disappeared in the last forty years. I can see that it hasn't been completely eradicated yet though.
This thread is closed. Off-topic, trolling, borderline flames, take your pick of reasons. Maybe T'Bonz will feel like reopening it, but I'd be surprised. Personally, I expect her to be every bit as disappointed as I am.
Those of you who tried to keep things civil have my gratitude. And I apologize to those of you wanted to have this discussion but can't.
As usual, comments/questions via PM.
Every time we have one of these threads in here I'm hopeful that it will be the one where rational discourse occurs and people disagree in a civil manner. Every time I'm let down. And that's a very telling statement.
You know, it's entirely possible to have a discussion without name calling and insults. There's no reason why people can't discuss this issue in any forum on the board. Other than where the extremists always end up taking it.
You know what voggmo? I had to deal with people like you in the Deep South in the 1960's because, God forbid, black people might mingle with the whites. Fortunately, that kind of bigotry and reasoning has virtually disappeared in the last forty years. I can see that it hasn't been completely eradicated yet though.
This thread is closed. Off-topic, trolling, borderline flames, take your pick of reasons. Maybe T'Bonz will feel like reopening it, but I'd be surprised. Personally, I expect her to be every bit as disappointed as I am.
Those of you who tried to keep things civil have my gratitude. And I apologize to those of you wanted to have this discussion but can't.
As usual, comments/questions via PM.
And why aren't you there posting your usual endless string of fabulous logic?
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