Garrett Wang,unfortunately,isn't cut-out to be a leading man

[Equinox]

Re: Garrett Wang,unfortunately,isn't cut-out to be a leading

I think any person in any job can tell you that part about what McNeill was saying is not 100% accurate.

YES, to make a good impression and further your career you often have to do above and beyond what is necessary.

HOWEVER, you still need to be given the chance to even go above and beyond to begin with.

McNeill was always going to be a big part of Voyager because of the way he looked and the demographic he appealed to. He started off, even as a secondary character, with one leg up on Garrett.

Garrett could have been a goody goody during all of Voyager, never said a word and you know what? I'm not sure he would have been any better off.

It's the equivalent of a bag boy being asked to run the store. If there was absolutely nobody else around, he might be able to fill in if he's a nice, polite worker. But in that same situation, if he isn't a good little puppy in the people in charge's minds, he won't ever get the chance. But regardless, his chances of ever getting thats hot to begin with are close to zilch.


Wang will have better luck in plays and commercials if he even still does acting. That whole Berman mess would have turned me off from TV acting, for sure.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Garrett Wang,unfortunately,isn't cut-out to be a leading

McNeil's description of and characterization of how directing opportunities for actors on the Trek shows were handled is absolutely accurate - the procedures and training go all the way back to Jonathan Frakes on TNG and have been reported and commented upon by a number of performers.

Most actors who wanted to direct on the shows were willing to put in the time and work required, and just about every actor who wanted to direct was able to. Wang wouldn't do what the others did.

Wang's characterization is the one that's misleading, not to mention self-pitying and petulant.

That's to be expected, I guess, considering that he's still giving interviews complaining about a job he hasn't had for seven or eight years.

 

[Equinox]

Re: Garrett Wang,unfortunately,isn't cut-out to be a leading

^^^ What I'm saying is that even if there is a bunch of stuff one has to do to become a director, it isn't fair that Wang had to work HARDER than someone like McNeill because the producers/writers didn't like his character (or maybe him).

I can see why it discouraged him and kept him from pursuing directing if other cast members eased their way into those positions while he had to fight every step of the way.


As far as him still complaining, most actors in Hollywood have one great claim to fame whether it be a TV series film or cameo somewhere. I can understand how its still upsets him because Berman did screw him over in his first major role and as a result probably killed what small (but potentially successful) acting career he COULD have had post Voyager.

 

[NeptuneHigh]

Re: Garrett Wang,unfortunately,isn't cut-out to be a leading

Equinox said:

As far as him still complaining, most actors in Hollywood have one great claim to fame whether it be a TV series film or cameo somewhere. I can understand how its still upsets him because Berman did screw him over in his first major role and as a result probably killed what small (but potentially successful) acting career he COULD have had post Voyager.

Most actors in Hollywood, or anywhere, are unemployed and would love to have had that role in Voyager. Rick Berman did not kill Garrett Wang's acting career post Voyager, nor did he kill his directing career. Both acting and directing take a lot of hard work, a lot of discipline, a lot of self-motivation and especially in the case of acting, a lot of luck. And yes, what an actor says about a job and their employer and co-workers is going to affect their chances of getting another job. Hollywood is a small town and they want people who are going to play by the rules.

 

[benny]

Re: Garrett Wang,unfortunately,isn't cut-out to be a leading

Okay, let's stop feeling bad for the guy. Obviously some combination of Berman, Taylor and Piller liked him enough to cast him in the pilot and to keep him on the show all seven years (the threat of being fired in S3 not withstanding). So this idea that Berman didn't talk to him and tell him "no" to directing is at least half crap.

Secondly, I have a very very hard time believing he did everything he could to get his foot into the directing door. Look at the number of cast members who have directed: Frakes, McFadden, Stewart, Burton, Dorn, Brooks, Sidding, Picardo, McNeill, Dawson, Russ...all different races spanning three different series. I'd have to pull out the TNG Companion, but Frakes talked a bit about what he had to do to get going. He hounded people, from what I remember, and kept going until they couldn't tell him no.

Does anyone think part of Wang's problem is that he claims he could have made the best first-directed episode of Voyager ever because he was a sci fi fan and not doing it for "the card"? It seems just a tad bit arrogant to me. He doesn't seem to understand you can have Scorsese direct a film with six fantastic actors...but if the script sucks, the show is ultimately going to suck. And that was most of Voyager's problem: the scripts.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Garrett Wang,unfortunately,isn't cut-out to be a leading

Equinox said:
...it isn't fair that Wang had to work HARDER than someone like McNeill because the producers/writers didn't like his character (or maybe him).

I don't believe that he did.

Really, he was lucky not to get canned when Jennifer Lien did. It was a near thing.

 

[stj]

Re: Garrett Wang,unfortunately,isn't cut-out to be a leading

UWC Defiance said:
McNeil's description of and characterization of how directing opportunities for actors on the Trek shows were handled is absolutely accurate - the procedures and training go all the way back to Jonathan Frakes on TNG and have been reported and commented upon by a number of performers.

Most actors who wanted to direct on the shows were willing to put in the time and work required, and just about every actor who wanted to direct was able to. Wang wouldn't do what the others did.

Wang's characterization is the one that's misleading, not to mention self-pitying and petulant.

That's to be expected, I guess, considering that he's still giving interviews complaining about a job he hasn't had for seven or eight years.

Since people are still interviewing him about that old job, it's not surprising he's still talking about it, is it? Since you managed to overlook something so stunningly obvious, perhaps you should actually think out a position.

For one thing, isn't this actually an old interview, dug up for God knows what reason, by whoever? Last year there was some gigantic podcast by Wang blasting Berman. Is this part of that, or even older? Is this being floated around again by suckups looking to badmouth Wang, who finally got more work?

Putting in the time and work, as McNiell would put it? Or putting in the time trying to impress the boss? (Unkindly put, sucking up.) Wasn't there a time when the director was the producer's brother-in-law?

 

[Equinox]

Re: Garrett Wang,unfortunately,isn't cut-out to be a leading

The article sounded old...didn't he say "Voyager ended 3 years ago" or something to that effect???

I don't wish any bad to the other members of the Voyager cast because they all did wonderful jobs...I just wish Wang didn't have such a bad experience with Trek.

Who knows, if he had been given the chance to direct, maybe he would have directed Voyager's best episode, as the majority of Voyagers' best eps came in Season 5. He could've shot Timeless for all I know.

And also, if say he did become a famous director ten years down the road....do you think he'd ever give any credit to Star Trek if they made him jump through hoops early in his career? NOPE. He'd just be another actor/director trying to distance himself (like Patrick Stewart) as far away as he can from anything Trek.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Garrett Wang,unfortunately,isn't cut-out to be a leading

stj said:
Putting in the time and work, as McNiell would put it? Or putting in the time trying to impress the boss?

The former, actually.

Just because something sounds plausible to you doesn't make it so. And just because someone complains in public to people who don't know what went on doesn't mean they have a valid point to make.

 

[stj]

Re: Garrett Wang,unfortunately,isn't cut-out to be a leading

The only evidence about Wang is McNiell. McNiell might not be right. Remember: "Just because something sounds plausible to you doesn't make it so." By the way, you may not have noticed I didn't actually give my opinion.

The spite so arrogantly lavished upon Berman and Braga so often is crazy enough. But they at least had real influence. Why anyone feels a need to pour bile on the actor in a tiny role is truly a mystery, especially when there's so little evidence. Whose foot is getting pinched by this shoe?

 

[LJones41]

I never really understood the backlash against Wang. In fact, this is the second thread that has discussed him in a negative way. Why is that?

 

[Relayer1]

The character of Harry Kim is about as unpopular as the character of Wesley Crusher, there's no denying that.

Yes there is.

He might have been a middling, even uninteresting character, but he wasn't actively annoying like Wesley.

I never really understood the backlash against Wang.

Me neither. I can name three other characters just in Voyager that were less appealing...

 

[Catarina]

this thread was started in 2007, Ljones, so I'd say that's a better track record than the Janeway hate.

 

[Sophie74656]

In the many years that I've been participating in Trek discussions I've seen every character get hated on. I think Harry, Neelix and Kes get the most.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Let's be honest, Garrett Wang seriously damaged his image during his time on Voyager, mainly due to his unprofessional behavior on sets: by arriving late on sets, by not knowing his texts; by laughing openly at his working colleagues. And I don't talk about his very negative criticisms* / his accusations of racism on behalf of the producers because the latter refused him the direction of episodes.
-> while producers didn't manage to make Wang leave because of the popularity of his character of Harry Kim during the time of ST: Voyager, they eventually managed to obtain their revenge by compromising the professional reputation of the actor in Hollywood and God knows how reputation is everything in the known world of show-business (like elsewhere besides!)! In a certain epoch, there was the existence of the "black list" in Hollywood and for all personalities quoted on this list, it was the insured unemployment and for a very long period ... when it wasn't definitive! I don't think that Garrett Wang was blacklisted but his reputation is definitively besmirched.

And nevertheless, everything had magnificently begun well for him. According to Star Trek Voyager: A vision of the future by Edward Poe, Wang was 22 or 23 yo, when he obtained a major role (the part of Harry Kim) in the new & eagerly awaited series of the Star Trek franchise, becoming one of the youngest of the cast with Jennifer Lien (19), still inexperienced as a professional actor and what did he do?! Instead of observing/listen his elder colleagues to learn of them the job over the years, he wasted everything by adopting a "dilettante" attitude throughout the 7 years the series lasted.

* Don't get me wrong, I don't say that everything was perfect. We know all that some scripts like the form of certain characters sucked, but instead of being grateful that his character survived the purge in the term of the 3rd season, he began to have requirements and to announce them publicly, for lack of being listened by the producers.
-> seriously, was it so important that his character is promoted Lieutenant?! It was just a problem of ego and nothing less, while he was already assured to have a job and a good salary on the duration. And about his will to direct some episodes... how a guy who is unable to make his job of actor correctly, could see entrusting the direction of 1 or 2 episodes, which requires a real thorough work?!

Not only once, he questioned himself, as person and as actor. Not even today, 15 years after the end of the series ...and the lack of serious propositions while his colleagues (except Beltran) rebounded, with a certain success, in this environment!
Fortunately for him, he can always count on Tim Russ to shoot some webproductions from time to time but let us be honest, it is often bad and I remain polite! Sad for him and for his fans!

 

[Voth commando1]

If Wang was such an unprofessional and poor actor as he was made out to be he should be thankful he lasted seven years and won't have to work another day in his life.

Also criticizing the writers/show runners during the show itself was a no no. Sure once it's over you can say you hated it, hated your colleagues, wanted to commit suicide when you were on set whatever-but wai till the show is over. You might get sympathy from general public and other big Whigs in Hollywood. Only if you keep your mouth shut while your on the job. That seems to have been Beltran's problem.

Maybe just maybe he should take his money buy a house out somewhere remote and shut the hell up. Stop bringing bad publicity to himself and his co-stars.

 

[Sophie74656]

There are contradicting stories about what happend on set. Wang says he was denied oportuities because of racism and such, but there are many other reports saying he acted unprofessionally. Roxann Dawson, Tim Russ, Robert McNeil have directed and have done a lot of work prior to that to prepare. Supposedly Wang wanted to direct but had no interest in doing the work first. Who knows what really happened.

Either way Garrett Wang is one of my favorite people to see at conventions.

 

[Voth commando1]

I mean the show is over and he is still rakin in the cash. He should know where is bread is buttered and shut up.

 

[A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees]

seriously, was it so important that his character is promoted Lieutenant?!

Reminds me of some story I read (I forget where) that when Wil Wheaton's contract was being re-negotiated, they offered to promote Wesley to a Lt., and he mocked them for it - basically saying his landlord doesn't care what rank he is on a TV show.

I have no idea if it's true or false, but if true, then it just shows that Garrett has less perspective on the situation than a kid. :P

I never really developed a strong feeling for the character or the actor. For the most part, they were both just... there. He's not helped by the fact that it was a part designed for stagnation to begin with. He was their token raw recruit, and that's the problem with Harry Kim. His character was defined by what should have been a transient circumstance in his life. He couldn't be a lieutenant, or he wouldn't be "young, green Harry Kim"

The concept for his character defined only what he was, not who he was. That he never progressed beyond that probably is a combination of factors -

A limiting concept.

Garrett not demonstrating particularly above average skill at a personality trait (This is where Picardo, for example, excelled in threading the needle of arrogance while retaining some likability.)

Writers being less likely to bother giving major parts of any story to an unreliable actor.

Producers being less likely to help out an actor being openly critical of them.
​

It all blends together to create a total picture of someone who was never going to stand out. (IMO)

 

[JasonJ]

Reminds me of some story I read (I forget where) that when Wil Wheaton's contract was being re-negotiated, they offered to promote Wesley to a Lt., and he mocked them for it - basically saying his landlord doesn't care what rank he is on a TV show.

I have no idea if it's true or false, but if true, then it just shows that Garrett has less perspective on the situation than a kid. :P

I never really developed a strong feeling for the character or the actor. For the most part, they were both just... there. He's not helped by the fact that it was a part designed for stagnation to begin with. He was their token raw recruit, and that's the problem with Harry Kim. His character was defined by what should have been a transient circumstance in his life. He couldn't be a lieutenant, or he wouldn't be "young, green Harry Kim"

The concept for his character defined only what he was, not who he was. That he never progressed beyond that probably is a combination of factors -

A limiting concept.

Garrett not demonstrating particularly above average skill at a personality trait (This is where Picardo, for example, excelled in threading the needle of arrogance while retaining some likability.)

Writers being less likely to bother giving major parts of any story to an unreliable actor.

Producers being less likely to help out an actor being openly critical of them.
​

It all blends together to create a total picture of someone who was never going to stand out. (IMO)

Robert Picardo as The Doctor is the most like-able jackass/arrogant jerk character of film and television. My opinion, but a strong one. He managed to be interesting while coarse, and yet still show he had a side to him that was WORTH caring about. I never got that about Harry Kim... he never felt like a guy you should care about. If I were a crewman on Voyager, En. Kim would be, "Oh, yeah... that guy, OK.", while there were about 20 more interesting guys to hang out with or make a friend out of.