Garrett Wang criticizes Rick Berman

[Equinox]

stj said:
Jumping back to the joke about Scarlet Pomers, Wang might have been refused because Berman was sure he was too young. Or Wang was blackballed because a senior actor said he/she wouldn't take direction from the snotnosed kid. Or because Berman had already contracted the rest of the directing slots.

So really even if Wang had been the PERFECT actor in everyway you're saying he'd never have a chance if Mulgrew didn't like him? Or Russ? Or McNeill? That's pretty crappy and makes me glad I'm not in showbusiness.

Perhaps Wang (like me) was under the impression that if you work hard and do the best with what you're given, eventually a door will open up for you. He wasn't stupid, he knew Star Trek was the stepping stone to a bigger career in acting - I highly doubt his work ethic is as bad as people say because if you have to put up w/ all that crap once you ARE an actor, imagine all the work you have to do to BECOME one!

I Love Chakotay said:
I prefer to think he was inexperienced - maybe even naive - and just didn't see it that way, and thought he was doing the best thing at the time. Life is a big learning curve and looking back on some of the things I mistakenly - but with the best intentions - did and didn't do on my first proper job still make me cringe to this day

That I understand but from your own experances(..and mine as well) you didn't blame anybody for them other than yourself.

That's the issue I think many have with Garrett.

He's putting blame on Berman when the fault was his own.

I had bad experiences on certain things on first jobs out of college as well and while I admit I could have done certain things better, I also believe that if my employers had done their jobs (as promised or expected) my issues could have probably been completely avoided altogether.

In regards to Wang, my point is that even if this was first "big" role in Trek, there wasn't this big night and day difference between him and other actors on the show. Honestly, before they showed up on Voyager, how many people even heard of Mulgrew, Russ, Dawson, etc. or give them a second thought? They should have all been on an even playing field since really the only main star was Mulgrew and the rest of the cast were supporting roles.

But like it was mentioned earlier, if Hollywood (even in the less fierce TV world) is so clique-ish and territorial that you can always try your best and never get ahead, Wang never stood a snowball's chance in hell of furthering his career using Trek.

I'm guessing Wang is still upset about his Trek experience not because it was so devastating or something but because he gave up SEVEN years of probably the most potentially lucrative years of a standard actor's career to a show that did zilch for him in the long run. He could have been on Buffy or Law & Order or CSI or something when Voyager was running. He's probably pissed at Berman mostly for that.

I can see why big-name actors stay away from multi-year contracts now and shows' futures are always uncertain year to year. Actors don't want to get locked into a crappy "supporting/dead-end" role for half a decade or longer, especially if they're young.

 

[stj]

^^^I'm saying possibly that's so. It's also even possible that Wang does know for a fact why not, because he was told to his face but he's taking advantage of the no comment rule (Berman seems to have one) to hide an embarrassing truth about himself.

It's just crazy to imagine you have issues with Wang based on what we actually do know. (A period of tardiness and a tendency to go home at the end of his personal workday, both of uncertain relevance.) I must add that I can't see abusing Berman either. Wang's opinion may be correct but we can't know that either. It's just as self interested as McNiell's.

However, Wang did not sacrifice many jobs during the Voyager run. Wang reportedly has made a point of avoiding martial arts roles (something that irritated the Voyager producers?) and there are damn few roles for young Asian men that don't involve martial arts. Offhand, as I remember the only Asian predecessors to Wang as a regular actor on a series were George Takei and Robert Ito in Quincy. Most Trek actors do not move on to much of anything precisely because Trek is so visible, somehow, despite the lower and lower ratings.

Wang may have gotten concerned about the tight market for Asian actors in the last couple of years of Voyager and thought to add another string to his bow, so to speak. I suppose the older Dawson and McNiell figured from the start that Voyager would be the all time peak of their acting careers, and pursued the directing option quite vigorously from the beginning. (Hence the crowding around.)

If you want to critize Berman, perhaps this would be a good point to use. The famous story that Wang would have been let go except that People included him in the Most Beautiful People issue is commonly misinterpreted by some people as reflecting on Wang. This is not very perceptive, to put it politely as possible. The story means that Berman kept Wang as a token but was embarrassed to dump him with any publicity. Now that does reflect badly on Berman.

And what we see makes it likely that Berman only had Wang as a token. For instance, Kim, seeing Janeway as a mother figure (a feeling apparently reciprocated,) would thereby have been in a sibling rivalry situation with Seven of Nine. That had character-driven conflict possibilities, much more interesting in my opinion than petty squabbles with Torres. Passing on that opportunity meant that Kim was intended to be a spear carrier.

There was practically no Paris/Kim after The Chute, either. I suppose they thought after that Paris/Kim would have been too Paris/Kim. I would have thought a competent producer would have wanted to strengthen the original Paris characterization rather than just adding new role after new role.

If you try to see it from Berman's perspective, it still doesn't look good. If he thought the Kim character was a failure, like the Kes character, he should have excised it (and Wang) for the good of the show. If he thought Wang wasn't up to the challenge (I didn't think so, but perhaps every decent Wang scene took 23 takes or something we wouldn't see on screen,) he should have dropped Wang.

Instead he developed Kim as comic relief (isn't that acting?) Instead he put Kim front and center in Timeless and Endgame, two of the most publicized episodes in the last three years. What was Berman thinking?

 

[Who1]

The criticisms are valid (although I bet he didn't watch much of DS9), but he's still a mediocre actor...

 

[Equinox]

I don't think he's mediocre - you're only saying that because he was never pushed as a leading man sort of actor. Acting "skill" is soooo subjective also and really, as long as you can say the lines you're given w/o too much hassle, you're set as an actor. It's almost always the producers, writers, editors and director who make actors into "great ones" or "forgettable ones" and not the actors themselves.

Colin Farrel is a good example of this - he's a pretty good actor and man, has he been in one flop after another??? Back in 2002/2003 when he was new he was being primed to be the next leading man in Hollywood - now, you have to dig to find what movie he's in.

 

[exodus]

^^How good of an actor can you be if you keep picking bad roles?

Oliver Stone brought out the best in Tom Cruise & Kevin Costner. If you can make Costner seem like a good actor, what's Colin Ferrell's problem.

 

[Equinox]

Costner has been in a lot of really bad movies (Waterworld? Postman?) but difference between him and a guy like Ferrell is that Ferrell hasn't had any really good role in a great movie yet (unlike Costner's Dances w/ Wolves, Bull Durham, etc.). Really, as an actor, you can only do so much w/ a script and your lines. Once those are filmed, all it takes is some bad editing, an awful soundtrack, piss-poor effects/visuals, laughable/bad OTHER acting/actors and your GOOD role is turned into crap.

Bringing this back to Wang, I don't think he's a victim of being in a truly awful role on a bad show. If anything, after seeing the way Montgomery from Enterprise was treated by the writers, he should feel blessed! But I do feel bad for him that Hollywood is so anti-Asian. He should be like Siddig (Bashir from DS9) and PLAY those stereotype/foreign roles now that Trek is no longer giving him exposure. He, like Siddig, will never be as big as Stewart or Shatner but he shouldn't let this Berman/Trek thing wreck the rest of his acting career [if he wants one].

At least he has acting experience now - that should get him in the door SOMEWHERE!

 

[CaptJimboJones]

Well, Wang hasn't had much of a career since Voyager ended. According to IMDB, he had a small part in "Demon Island," a low-budget made-for-cable movie, and an even smaller part in the miniseries "Into the West."

The only other entry for him post-Voyager is the Star Trek "fanfilm" "Of Gods and Men."

 

[exodus]

If the rumors are correct, I heard something along the lines of him working on a sports career.

 

[Equinox]

"And now, for our nightly Ping Pong correspondent Garret 'Hands Off My' Wang!"

 

[Good Will Riker]

Equinox said:
^^^ I don't know much about Wang's academic/theatrical training. If he DID go to an actual acting/film school and get a Bachelor's or higher, I can almost bet he had to take a certain amount of directing classes so that he was QUALIFIED to do that job.

No, I can tell you as a recepient of a BA in English Education with an emphasis in Theatre Arts from a university that just having one single lone workshop class on directing in college won't prepare you to be a director in real life.

Garrett himself was not even a theatre major at UCLA. He majored in Asian studies or some such liberal arts degree and took some theatre courses on the side. His real taste when it came to acting was when he was hired by UPN. Before then, he took acting lessons and such, but he was hardly in anything that allowed him to stretch his acting thespian muscles. He was a real novice when he began pursuing acting jobs in Hollywood in 1993.

 

[Jonesy]

I Love Chakotay said:
Isn't the point about him not putting in time on the set made moot by him clearly saying that there was no room around the Director's chair with McNeil, Dawson, and Russ all learning to direct at the same time? He does say that he thought it best to wait until they were done and dusted with the training simply because that was more practical. I can see that.

So, if people are saying he asked to direct but then didn't stick around when he wasn't needed on set, what do they expect? He's already said why he didn't ie: that he planned to do his training in the next round after McNeil, Dawson, and Russ

Well, that could also be looked upon as an explanation (excuse) that he can feed to fandom and the media. At the bare minimum it sounds pretty weak. Frakes shadowed the other directors to learn the craft. Wang could've done the same. I doubt that Rick Berman would've had a problem with Wang staying around after his last scenes for the day to watch McNiel or any of the others direct.

 

[Good Will Riker]

CaptJimboJones said:
Well, Wang hasn't had much of a career since Voyager ended. According to IMDB, he had a small part in "Demon Island," a low-budget made-for-cable movie, and an even smaller part in the miniseries "Into the West."

The only other entry for him post-Voyager is the Star Trek "fanfilm" "Of Gods and Men."

Garrett Wang's source of income comes from VOY residuals and convention appearances.

 

[Broccoli]

Good Will Riker said:

Equinox said:
^^^ I don't know much about Wang's academic/theatrical training. If he DID go to an actual acting/film school and get a Bachelor's or higher, I can almost bet he had to take a certain amount of directing classes so that he was QUALIFIED to do that job.

No, I can tell you as a recepient of a BA in English Education with an emphasis in Theatre Arts from a university that just having one single lone workshop class on directing in college won't prepare you to be a director in real life.

I can completely second that.

 

[Equinox]

^^^ Well, I'm sure a SINGLE directing class won't prepare you in every way for Directing but if you were in a true Acting program at a college made specifically for that for that sort of thing, I'm sure you'd get more than ONE class. The principles of directing would probably be put inthroughout your whole program and not just a single class. Your college may not have had that focus but it doesn't sound like you had a true Acting/Theater degree anyways - just a English degree with a Theater Minor-like addition.

As for Wang not having ANY acting experience (educationally) then I guess I don't know what he expected. If he actually had a degree in acting (because as a young actor, he most likely didn't have the experience), I could see him having a shot at directing. But if I were in charge, even if Wang was a great actor and always on-time, etc., I'm not so sure I'd let him direct either, if he was one of those "self-trained" types. Too risky.

 

[Jon1701]

Equinox said:
^^^ Well, I'm sure a SINGLE directing class won't prepare you in every way for Directing but if you were in a true Acting program at a college made specifically for that for that sort of thing, I'm sure you'd get more than ONE class. The principles of directing would probably be put inthroughout your whole program and not just a single class. Your college may not have had that focus but it doesn't sound like you had a true Acting/Theater degree anyways - just a English degree with a Theater Minor-like addition.

As for Wang not having ANY acting experience (educationally) then I guess I don't know what he expected. If he actually had a degree in acting (because as a young actor, he most likely didn't have the experience), I could see him having a shot at directing. But if I were in charge, even if Wang was a great actor and always on-time, etc., I'm not so sure I'd let him direct either, if he was one of those "self-trained" types. Too risky.

I took Media & Performance at Uni, and took modules such as theatre directing and directing for film & television. Directing for theatre and directing for film are two completely seperate things. I made a few short films while I was there. From what little I learnt (and I havent done it for a while) - You have to be 100% focused. All the time. You still have to have a handle on the actors - but you have to think about shot lists, how the thing will cut (editing, pace of scene etc). You have to think about timing. You literally have to see the scene in your head.

Yes, you have been around you to help you with these little jobs - but there is a lot more to directing than meets the eye. You are the quarterback. You call the shots. You have to think about everything. All the time. You are the first person there in the morning and the last person to leave at night. You are in charge. You control the actors. You tell you director of photography what you want. Everything within the frame you control - be it costume, makeup, sound, lighting, editing.

This stuff takes time to learn. You cant pick it up overnight. If the crew and/or actors get one sniff that you dont know what you are doing then you are screwed.

I dont think that Garrett would have learnt any of this stuff from an acting class. I know I never did. I'm not saying he couldnt or wouldnt have been a good director, but pulling all the facts (and rumours) together from what we know - I think the right choice was made in the end. On a TV show such a Star Trek they are never going to let you have a go unless you are mentally and physically prepared. This is a very important and expensive set of car keys you are handing over here. If a producer has any doubts, he has the right to say no.

Remember, they let Siddig Fadil have a go at DS9 and he messed it up, meaning they had to reshoot some stuff. I dont have the timeline in my head at the moment ( I dont know if it was around the same time as Garrett was asking) but that, if anything shows you that you perhaps not everyone is good at it.

 

[number6]

It doesn't help that whenever Wang is being interviewed or appears anywhere he comes off as a bitter whiney douche. I wouldn't be surprised if he's made himself completely unemployable.

 

[I Love Chakotay]

Jonesy said:

I Love Chakotay said:
Isn't the point about him not putting in time on the set made moot by him clearly saying that there was no room around the Director's chair with McNeil, Dawson, and Russ all learning to direct at the same time? He does say that he thought it best to wait until they were done and dusted with the training simply because that was more practical. I can see that.

So, if people are saying he asked to direct but then didn't stick around when he wasn't needed on set, what do they expect? He's already said why he didn't ie: that he planned to do his training in the next round after McNeil, Dawson, and Russ

Well, that could also be looked upon as an explanation (excuse) that he can feed to fandom and the media. At the bare minimum it sounds pretty weak.

Maybe to you, but not to me. If Garrett said it then Garrett said it (more than once) and meant it. I have no reason to want to bend his words to fit/refute my argument or point of view. With the greatest respect, who are you to try to tell me what Garrett's words would/could be used for, or to suggest that he was lying when he said them? The only person who knows for sure is Garrett Wang and anything else is pure speculation.

Bottom line for me is that I like the guy and I have no interest in heresay or speculation or other people's interpretation of his reasons for saying what he said. He said it - I believe it - the end

 

[Jonesy]

I Love Chakotay said:

Jonesy said:

I Love Chakotay said:
Isn't the point about him not putting in time on the set made moot by him clearly saying that there was no room around the Director's chair with McNeil, Dawson, and Russ all learning to direct at the same time? He does say that he thought it best to wait until they were done and dusted with the training simply because that was more practical. I can see that.

So, if people are saying he asked to direct but then didn't stick around when he wasn't needed on set, what do they expect? He's already said why he didn't ie: that he planned to do his training in the next round after McNeil, Dawson, and Russ

Well, that could also be looked upon as an explanation (excuse) that he can feed to fandom and the media. At the bare minimum it sounds pretty weak.

Maybe to you, but not to me. If Garrett said it then Garrett said it (more than once) and meant it. I have no reason to want to bend his words to fit/refute my argument or point of view. With the greatest respect, who are you to try to tell me what Garrett's words would/could be used for, or to suggest that he was lying when he said them? The only person who knows for sure is Garrett Wang and anything else is pure speculation.

Bottom line for me is that I like the guy and I have no interest in heresay or speculation or other people's interpretation of his reasons for saying what he said. He said it - I believe it - the end

Well o.k. then. I'm glad that you made me aware that his statement was nothing else but the 100 percent ironclad, irrefutable truth, and that it may not have anything to do with the fact that, like most things in life, it's just his side of the story.

Still, I never claimed that was he said wasn't the truth - I said it sounded like an excuse. "No room around the director's chair"? Claiming that he thought it best to "wait around" until the others were done with their training? Weak. Plain and simple. Sounds to me like he was more interested in getting off of the set as quickly as he could in his early years, and when he finally grew some ambition to direct, the rest of the cast had aleady taken advantage of the opportunities in front of them.

 

[NKemp3]

http://startrekdom.blogspot.com/2007/05/garrett-wang-criticizes-rick-berman.html

Are his criticisms valid? Do you agree that all Berman-era Trek was the same formula over and over again?

Seems to me DS9 mostly went away from the TNG formula which is why it suffered in popularity (although not in quality). I guess Wang never watched that show.

Though any bashing of Berman is fine with me.

 

[mahler5]

I am really getting sick of all the "4th string" players ripping on the management, or other actors. Mr. Wang and Takai need to get over their egos and move on. Give me a break.