Garrett Wang criticizes Rick Berman

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Equinox said:
That's pretty crappy business dealings though - instead of taking care of the situation behind cameras they bring that junk onto the set.

Don't be ridiculous. It made all the sense in the world - same as writing a path for Stewart off of the show in "The Best Of Both Worlds."

If an actor may be leaving a show - whether voluntarily or at the beheist of the bosses - their character has to be written out of the series.

At least Wang was given an opporunity to turn the situation around, and got to keep his job. He wasn't owed that.

What, you think studios deal with this kind of thing through their HR departments or something?

 

[stj]

Evidence on the relative hours spent and their relevance is still lacking. Unsupported assertions are worthless. What we know is that Wang's character was shorted, and that Robert Duncan McNiell blamed Wang for Berman's refusal. There's not enough information to blindly accept McNiell. Everything else is just fun abusing an actor.

It's still impossible to imagine how Wang being late could cause real problems for the show. How many episodes did he get scenes in? The episodes he starred in could be counted on your fingers! However, if the producers had problems and took action to solve the problem (suspension?) and the problem was then solved, then how is that relevant to a later request for a directing slot?

If the lateness problem was "the" reason for not directing, they could have said so. I suspect that the producers would agree that nursing a grudge is personally reprehensible, which may be why they wouldn't say so.

Or it may be that the producers told Wang in plain terms precisely why he didn't get a chance, and that Wang is outright lying by omission. But there's not enough evidence to decide that either! Tim Russ if I remember doesn't know why he only got one directing gig, either, for what that's worth.

It seems to me that the directing jobs for actors were a privilege to be handed out to favored actors. The favored actors naturally felt it to be something they earned, which I rather doubt. But I don't know for sure either, so I don't think I need to make fun of McNiell's ego.

I do know that dropping the Kes character was far smarter than killing off Kim. Or for that matter, the privileged treatment for the Paris character.

 

[KitchenWitch]

stj said:
It's still impossible to imagine how Wang being late could cause real problems for the show. How many episodes did he get scenes in?

He got scenes in every episode--except those couple he was suspended for. Not a lot of scenes, but he got scenes.

And if you're supposed to be there at x time to shoot, then you damn well better be there. Else you're holding up the entire day. Doesn't matter if you've got 1 line or 100--they count on you to be there.

 

[Equinox]

Doesn't Cailfornia have awful traffic though? I lived in Chicago near downtown and I was late all the time in that city because of congested traffic, random accidents, crappy train/bus schedules, etc. I can totally relate to Wang if he was getting chewed out over being late 5 minutes here or there when most of the time they could care less if he even existed. I don't think the up and coming actors are the ones who don't take their jobs seriously enough - its the ones who are in good positions and can start to throw their weight around that take advantage.

(Think Lindsay Lohan and her getting publicly criticized for being constantly late in a film she was starring in! She got away with it for no good reason other than "partying" because she already had her career established. If she had pulled that on the set of Parent Trap Disney would have dumped her @$$ long ago.

What if McNiell was late - would he have had his directing privileges taken away as well? What about Ryan or Mulgrew? How far up could you go before your acting weight outweighed the off-camera peoples' threats?


It just doesn't make sense here to ASSUME Wang is the guilty person and Berman is a nice guy who helped the young kid get in line. For one thing, Berman has far worse of a reputation in many different areas relating to Trek than Wang ever did. Secondly, Berman is just a corporate yes man who cares more about ratings and advertisers than anything else - it's no surprise he had no intention of helping out Wang - a PC token Asian forced on the show by UPN execs. We'll let the blonde causcasian male (he's guaranteed to go places and he'll remember good ol' Berman!) and black/hispanic minority actors have a chance though (for fear of racial discrimination suits, of course!).


Berman/Voy Execs did Wang dirty, that's the long and short of it.

 

[exodus]

Equinox said:
Doesn't Cailfornia have awful traffic though? I lived in Chicago near downtown and I was late all the time in that city because of congested traffic, random accidents, crappy train/bus schedules, etc. I can totally relate to Wang if he was getting chewed out over being late 5 minutes here or there when most of the time they could care less if he even existed. I don't think the up and coming actors are the ones who don't take their jobs seriously enough - its the ones who are in good positions and can start to throw their weight around that take advantage.

(Think Lindsay Lohan and her getting publicly criticized for being constantly late in a film she was starring in! She got away with it for no good reason other than "partying" because she already had her career established. If she had pulled that on the set of Parent Trap Disney would have dumped her @$$ long ago.

What if McNiell was late - would he have had his directing privileges taken away as well? What about Ryan or Mulgrew? How far up could you go before your acting weight outweighed the off-camera peoples' threats?


It just doesn't make sense here to ASSUME Wang is the guilty person and Berman is a nice guy who helped the young kid get in line. For one thing, Berman has far worse of a reputation in many different areas relating to Trek than Wang ever did. Secondly, Berman is just a corporate yes man who cares more about ratings and advertisers than anything else - it's no surprise he had no intention of helping out Wang - a PC token Asian forced on the show by UPN execs. We'll let the blonde causcasian male (he's guaranteed to go places and he'll remember good ol' Berman!) and black/hispanic minority actors have a chance though (for fear of racial discrimination suits, of course!).


Berman/Voy Execs did Wang dirty, that's the long and short of it.

Dude, what the heck are you even talking about?

 

[stj]

^^^Well, I can't read Berman's mind either. I wouldn't pretend to know what he cared more about. I do know that there's an extraordinary torrent of senseless abuse lavished on him at this bbs. Wang could be both objective and honest, yet still wrong as to motive.

Again all we really know is that Wang's character was a token (in my opinion at the expense of the show!); that he somehow got suspended for tardiness after a couple of years; that McNiell's character was favored (in my opinion at the expense of the show!); that McNiell blamed Wang (and implicitly praised himself) for not directing, and that some people dislike Garrett Wang.

PS This was in comment on Equinox post, which was not formally written but perfectly comprehensible to native English speakers.

 

[Equinox]

exodus said:

Equinox said:
Doesn't Cailfornia have awful traffic though? I lived in Chicago near downtown and I was late all the time in that city because of congested traffic, random accidents, crappy train/bus schedules, etc. I can totally relate to Wang if he was getting chewed out over being late 5 minutes here or there when most of the time they could care less if he even existed. I don't think the up and coming actors are the ones who don't take their jobs seriously enough - its the ones who are in good positions and can start to throw their weight around that take advantage.

(Think Lindsay Lohan and her getting publicly criticized for being constantly late in a film she was starring in! She got away with it for no good reason other than "partying" because she already had her career established. If she had pulled that on the set of Parent Trap Disney would have dumped her @$$ long ago.

What if McNiell was late - would he have had his directing privileges taken away as well? What about Ryan or Mulgrew? How far up could you go before your acting weight outweighed the off-camera peoples' threats?


It just doesn't make sense here to ASSUME Wang is the guilty person and Berman is a nice guy who helped the young kid get in line. For one thing, Berman has far worse of a reputation in many different areas relating to Trek than Wang ever did. Secondly, Berman is just a corporate yes man who cares more about ratings and advertisers than anything else - it's no surprise he had no intention of helping out Wang - a PC token Asian forced on the show by UPN execs. We'll let the blonde causcasian male (he's guaranteed to go places and he'll remember good ol' Berman!) and black/hispanic minority actors have a chance though (for fear of racial discrimination suits, of course!).


Berman/Voy Execs did Wang dirty, that's the long and short of it.

Dude, what the heck are you even talking about?

I was pointing out that something as stupid and trivial as being late in a city & state known for awful traveling conditions is about the lamest excuse one could give for not giving Wang a break.

I really would like to know WHY there are those of you who feel so strongly Wang is a crybaby slacker despite so many things pointing to the contrary? Am I missing something here? Did Berman tape Wang sleeping on the set and post it on Youtube? Really, what gives?

You're saying the word of a man who drove Trek into the ground and a pretty-boy ideal-UPN lead actor cancel out whatever claims Wang makes?

 

[Searider Falcon]

I would imagine if one lives in LA or the LA area long enough, one should be able to figure out how much time it takes to get to get anywhere they need to be on time. Traffic isn't much of an excuse. I doubt it would fly with any employer in the area, not just tv and movie productions. Furthermore, I got the impression that his tardiness was a bit more serious than just five minutes here and there.

Keep in mind, there's quite a bit of preparation for actors to go through before they even step in front of a camera. They have to get in costume and have makeup to put on, which wouldn't necessarily just be dusting a little powder on one's nose but could've been quite complex depending on if the script called for the character to be dirty, bruised, diseased, aged, etc. That takes time if you want it to look right on camera. What if they had to be on location and only had only so many usable daylight hours before they'd have to stop filming? Everyone will want to milk as much as they can from those hours. Every minute counts. What if the first scene they do is centered around that character. The whole production is stalled while they wait of that person to show up and get ready and that can cost a lot of money.

Frankly, if someone wanted to pay me as much as he probably made during his seven years for his acting, I'd be there every day on time and completely prepared for whatever we were going to be filming that day. I wouldn't go out the night before out and be out so late that getting up the next day would be a problem.

 

[Anna Yolei]

I really would like to know WHY there are those of you who feel so strongly Wang is a crybaby slacker despite so many things pointing to the contrary? Am I missing something here? Did Berman tape Wang sleeping on the set and post it on Youtube? Really, what gives?

Who says both can't be true at the same time?

Personally, I couldn't blame Wang if he stopped being enthusiastic about work. The amount of lines he gets on many episodes can be counted on one hand. OTOH, we all know full well that Berman is a dickwad to anyone who dares challenges his artistic "ability." If Wang was serious about being a director, being apathetic about his work certainly wasn't the way to make an impression, no matter who his boss was (Although, given how Berman could never tell him to his face the reason why he didn't get the directing gig, it's probably not the only reason, nor the main one).

 

[TiberiusK]

In Berman's defense, he wasn't running a directing school for young actors. At some point, he had to say no with an endless stream of "Can I? Can I?" By Voy, it had really gotten out of hand, with so many of the actors thinking that directing an episode was a right, because so many Trek actors had directed before them.

I can't think of a single episode of Ent directed by an Ent actor. There was probably a good reason for that. And Wang is just full of himself "OMGERZ, I'D DIRECT TEH BESTESTEST episode EVA!"

 

[Gamma_Quadrant]

Wow, I don't think I've ever been to a website that has more Berman apologists then this one. I'm so used to him being hated, not defended.

I'm not really saying Garret Wang is in the right or the wrong, but Berman is far from this director that did what must be done to an uppity actor. I'd behave the same way if I had to work for that moron that is running Trek into the ground. Wang was spot on when he said that the formula for VOY was the same thing as the other shows. It seemed like the VOY creators THOUGHT about making it this revolutionary new show when they were creating it, then halfway there, they're like "Never mind. We'll just redo TNG, as it was pretty successful." Garret is a 100% right.

As for why Garret didn't get his chance at being a director, well I'm not really sure. I've never heard that he was "late" to the set and that he goofed off. However, again, I don't blame him. I heard in an interview, that featured Garret, he and all the other actors playing Humans on the show were told to tone themselves down so that the aliens would stand out more. That's not good producing/directing/writing. That's pure laziness. The aliens have to stand out themselves. That explains a lot about the direction Trek had been going...

 

[I Love Chakotay]

Gamma_Quadrant said:
I heard in an interview, that featured Garret, he and all the other actors playing Humans on the show were told to tone themselves down so that the aliens would stand out more. That's not good producing/directing/writing. That's pure laziness. The aliens have to stand out themselves. That explains a lot about the direction Trek had been going...

I read a smiliar thing in a Rick Kolbe interview where he says that about some of the characters having to withdraw and be distant. Like you, I never understood it. I can only think it was because there were so many essentially 'humanoid' forehead aliens on the show

(Kolbe)"You have to understand another thing: These stoic parts like Chakotay and Tuvok are very difficult to act. What you're telling those guys is, `I want you to withdraw. I want you to be distant, but I want you to have character. "

 

[Jonesy]

Anna Yolei said:

I really would like to know WHY there are those of you who feel so strongly Wang is a crybaby slacker despite so many things pointing to the contrary? Am I missing something here? Did Berman tape Wang sleeping on the set and post it on Youtube? Really, what gives?

Who says both can't be true at the same time?

Personally, I couldn't blame Wang if he stopped being enthusiastic about work. The amount of lines he gets on many episodes can be counted on one hand. OTOH, we all know full well that Berman is a dickwad to anyone who dares challenges his artistic "ability." If Wang was serious about being a director, being apathetic about his work certainly wasn't the way to make an impression, no matter who his boss was (Although, given how Berman could never tell him to his face the reason why he didn't get the directing gig, it's probably not the only reason, nor the main one).

I'm not sure what the debate really is about anymore. We already have one person who worked on the Trek sets comment in this thread (JPRyan) on Wang's desire to leave the studio moments after being told that he was no longer needed for the day.

That seems pretty much open and shut as to why Wang was never given a directing gig. Starting with Frakes on, all of the Trek actors who wanted a directing gig had to actually learn it on their own free time. Do you really think any competent executive producer would've put an actor in charge of directing when he/she had no idea what they were doing? I wouldn't do it simply out of respect for the people who have done their homework.

 

[exodus]

Equinox said:

exodus said:

Equinox said:
Doesn't Cailfornia have awful traffic though? I lived in Chicago near downtown and I was late all the time in that city because of congested traffic, random accidents, crappy train/bus schedules, etc. I can totally relate to Wang if he was getting chewed out over being late 5 minutes here or there when most of the time they could care less if he even existed. I don't think the up and coming actors are the ones who don't take their jobs seriously enough - its the ones who are in good positions and can start to throw their weight around that take advantage.

(Think Lindsay Lohan and her getting publicly criticized for being constantly late in a film she was starring in! She got away with it for no good reason other than "partying" because she already had her career established. If she had pulled that on the set of Parent Trap Disney would have dumped her @$$ long ago.

What if McNiell was late - would he have had his directing privileges taken away as well? What about Ryan or Mulgrew? How far up could you go before your acting weight outweighed the off-camera peoples' threats?


It just doesn't make sense here to ASSUME Wang is the guilty person and Berman is a nice guy who helped the young kid get in line. For one thing, Berman has far worse of a reputation in many different areas relating to Trek than Wang ever did. Secondly, Berman is just a corporate yes man who cares more about ratings and advertisers than anything else - it's no surprise he had no intention of helping out Wang - a PC token Asian forced on the show by UPN execs. We'll let the blonde causcasian male (he's guaranteed to go places and he'll remember good ol' Berman!) and black/hispanic minority actors have a chance though (for fear of racial discrimination suits, of course!).


Berman/Voy Execs did Wang dirty, that's the long and short of it.

Dude, what the heck are you even talking about?

I was pointing out that something as stupid and trivial as being late in a city & state known for awful traveling conditions is about the lamest excuse one could give for not giving Wang a break.

I really would like to know WHY there are those of you who feel so strongly Wang is a crybaby slacker despite so many things pointing to the contrary? Am I missing something here? Did Berman tape Wang sleeping on the set and post it on Youtube? Really, what gives?

You're saying the word of a man who drove Trek into the ground and a pretty-boy ideal-UPN lead actor cancel out whatever claims Wang makes?

Well, if everyone in the cast and film crew could make it in on time everyday, then Wang has no excuse. Also from my understanding Voyager films in 14 hour work days. The cast arrives a little after day break and well before rush hour traffic.

As far as Berman is concerned, I have empathy for the man. It's hard enough to write and produce any show much less 4 of them.(Not even all the Law & Orders are perfect) It must have been equally difficult to do so under the pressure that Paramount was giving him to turn a TV show into a franchise equal to Star Wars, not to mention the ingratitude fans have toward him over it. I think he tried to do his best and do right by us. Did he succeed? that depends on you but I can see his effort and give him respect for trying. That's all you can really ever ask of anybody, isn't it?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Equinox said:
Now I'm gonna wonder about all the plot twists and turns and wonder if writers actually wanted it or if the higher ups just said, "Hey, we don't like person A anymore - have something bad happen to them on screen"...

There are plenty!

Grace Lee Whitney was not able to give her role 100% and so Janice Rand disappeared.

The actor playing Mr Leslie in TOS had a back injury and had to stop taking work on TOS.

Chekov got to do more in TOS because Sulu was off filming a movie that got delayed a lot.

Palmer got to play at communications whenever Uhura had a singing engagement in real life.

Chief DiFalco navigated the Enterprise home in TMP because Ilia was kidnapped by V'ger and Marcy Lafferty was married to William Shatner.

Saavik changed her eyebrows, eye colour and her whole face because Paramount offered Kirstie Alley less money for ST III than ST II.

Dr Chapel was not in ST II because her husband had lost creative control of the movies and he was threatening to withhold the Roddenberry name from the credits.

Janice Rand was in ST III because director Nimoy liked her.

Janice Rand was in ST VI because fans voted for her at a ST convention. Kevin Riley lost by a few points. And then Christian Slater got a few of her lines because... his Mom was the casting director!

Tasha Yar died because Denise Crosby didn't feel she was getting enough lines.

Dr Crusher went to Starfleet Medical for a year because Gates McFadden was claimed to be "difficult" by one of the producers.

Dr Crusher came back because Diana Muldaur refused to be available, for three consecutive Season Three episodes, so she could film a "Return of McCloud" reunion telemovie.

Guinan disappeared in TNG's Season Six because her movie career kept Whoopi Goldberg too busy to tend bar.

Scotty and Chekov accompanied Kirk in "Generations" because Spock claimed he didn't have a significant part, and McCoy felt he'd already said farewell properly in "Encounter at Farpoint".

Ro Laren lost a job on DS9 because she wouldn't sign a longterm contract.

Jadzia Dax was killed by Gul Ducat because Terry Farrell had been leading a campaign for higher cast salaries on DS9. The producers ended up approaching each other cast member separately, offering better conditions, thus breaking the alliance and leaving Dax out to dry.

Uhura didn't get to talk to Sulu and Rand in "Flashback" because she wanted a walk-on role, not just a viewscreen scene.

Mrs Troi terrorized the 24th century because Majel Barrett was married to the Great Bird of the Galaxy.

And so on.

 

[mahler5]

I agree.....what a jerk. I am sick of people that bite the hand that feeds them after the fact. Just be consistent.

 

[Shatmandu]

Keep in mind the type of brain function we're talking about here, with this interview.

The questioner actually says, "Well, I think I came up with a theory as to what Rick Berman’s problem might have been with you. I think he was jealous that, in 1997, you were chosen as one of the 50 Most Beautiful People in People Magazine and he wasn’t."

It's just some jackoff talking to an actor. Sorta like two mental patients shooting the shit until the meds are given out.

Pay them no mind.

Joe, payee

 

[exodus]

Shatmandu said:
Keep in mind the type of brain function we're talking about here, with this interview.

The questioner actually says, "Well, I think I came up with a theory as to what Rick Berman’s problem might have been with you. I think he was jealous that, in 1997, you were chosen as one of the 50 Most Beautiful People in People Magazine and he wasn’t."

It's just some jackoff talking to an actor. Sorta like two mental patients shooting the shit until the meds are given out.

Pay them no mind.

Joe, payee

"Take the blue pills!!!"

 

[Anna Yolei]

Jonesy said:[/. We already have one person who worked on the Trek sets comment in this thread (JPRyan) on Wang's desire to leave the studio moments after being told that he was no longer needed for the day.

That seems pretty much open and shut as to why Wang was never given a directing gig. Starting with Frakes on, all of the Trek actors who wanted a directing gig had to actually learn it on their own free time. Do you really think any competent executive producer would've put an actor in charge of directing when he/she had no idea what they were doing? I wouldn't do it simply out of respect for the people who have done their homework.

I didn't want to dump on one side or the other without concrete info, because I didn't realize the info came right out the mouth of a poster here, and not a random website that wanted a reason to Berman bash (I really should reed these buggers closer )

I can't fault Berman either, if that's so.

 

[stj]

Well, if we're going to dig this back up, go back to the source a moment.

JPRyan said:
AS for Garrett not getting a shot at directing a show, Bob, Robbie, and Roxie put in HOURS of there off time on set, in production meetings, and in the editing bays learning that trade. They even use to come in on days they were not being used. Garrett was out of his trailer and on his way home 15 seconds after he was told he was wraped for the day. Garrett is a great guy but just did not want to invest his own time into learning how to direct. I have alot of problems with how Rick ran his shop but not letting Garrett direct is a bum wrap against him.

JPRyan is said to be a first person authority, and unlike McNiell has no self interest I know of in the matter. So, this is certainly more evidence to consider.

But note the bolded portions. First, I am pretty sure that the cast does not attend "production meetings" on ad lib. This sounds like they were brought in as part of training for the directing gig. For that matter, I'm not sure editing bays are open to all and sundry.

Nor am I sure that a junior actor like Wang would have had the privilege of being tolerated---was he just putting a bold face on his diffidence of the time?

Second, every working actor has had many hours of training in direction, put in observing directors at work. So it is not accurate to represent the situation as if any actor were entirely unqualified. Incidentally, academically trained actors may even have had directing courses.

Third, given that the regular cameraman, sound editor, film editor, line producer etc. etc. are still involved in each episode, how much difference does the director really make?
Isn't this why its possible to offer the perk of a directing gig to (some) actors in the first place?

Wang may have been childish to think that a directing job was a reasonable expectation instead of a special privilege. Nor do we know what qualified some actors for the privilege. It is by no means certain that somehow they earned it and that Wang deserves abuse for complaining for his failure. That's still a pretty peculiar thing to worry about.