Garak vs. Obrien, who is Bashirs best friend?

[Lynx]

I didn't like Sisko and Yates because it always felt tacked on. Now, granted there was a lot going on with the subplots in the war but it was a sense of, "oh yeah, Sisko's relationship." So, maybe it's less how the relationship was acted out and more how it was set in the story.

The O'briens wee just victims of poor writing. A lot of fear, struggle over kids, weird anomalies, and then arguments over living in the station. Again, just odd.



Agreed and it's still frustrating because for the few stable relationships, we get the one nights, the tension of "will they/won't they?" in the newer shows as well.

Just not great in my opinion.

I don't think the O'Briens were victims of poor writing. I found thei relationship realistic, probably the most realistic relationship Star Trek came up with.

I think that Sisko-Yates were quite good too.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't think the O'Briens were victims of poor writing. I found thei relationship realistic, probably the most realistic relationship Star Trek came up with.

When you put them through tortuous situations with their kids again and again that's poor writing to me. I don't have much patience for that.

 

[Laughing Dragon]

I guess I am the only one that found the "realistic" relationship of Miles and Keiko way too dysfunctional to the point that they did not seem even be able to stand each other and especially on Keiko's end. I was wondering why they did not get divorced. That would seem more realistic. People have gotten divorced for less.

 

[fireproof78]

I guess I am the only one that found the "realistic" relationship of Miles and Keiko way too dysfunctional to the point that they did not seem even be able to stand each other and especially on Keiko's end. I was wondering why they did not get divorced. That would seem more realistic. People have gotten divorced for less.

I definitely found it dysfunctional but I felt it was more to force drama than being realistic.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I didn't find it dysfunctional at all. The marriage reflects the level of disagreement that happen. Yes, the constraints of the show made it difficult to show the issues real marriages might deal with, like how to pay for the kids' college--if Molly gets the GI Bill, does Kirayoshi need to use scholarships and loans? However, the fact that they do maneuver thr pitfalls of their differing careers (and the resulting tensions) shows tremendous maturity in the marriage. Keiko gets to be academic, Miles gets to relive a childless life on a regular basis, they achieve professionally and care for the well being of their two children.

 

[Lynx]

When you put them through tortuous situations with their kids again and again that's poor writing to me. I don't have much patience for that.

I can agree on that "Miles being tortured again" syndrome. There were simply too many episodes in which Miles was tortured, ill-treated and were in for torture and rough treatment.
I can also include the episode where Keiko was taken over by a Pai-Wrath there.

But otherwise I don't know.

And the kids weren't tortured or mistreated. Maybe Molly in Time's Orphan but that was all.

I guess I am the only one that found the "realistic" relationship of Miles and Keiko way too dysfunctional to the point that they did not seem even be able to stand each other and especially on Keiko's end. I was wondering why they did not get divorced. That would seem more realistic. People have gotten divorced for less.

I still find Miles and Keiko's relationship more realistic than many of the other relationships which turned up in TNG, DS9 and VOY.

I didn't find it dysfunctional at all. The marriage reflects the level of disagreement that happen. Yes, the constraints of the show made it difficult to show the issues real marriages might deal with, like how to pay for the kids' college--if Molly gets the GI Bill, does Kirayoshi need to use scholarships and loans? However, the fact that they do maneuver thr pitfalls of their differing careers (and the resulting tensions) shows tremendous maturity in the marriage. Keiko gets to be academic, Miles gets to relive a childless life on a regular basis, they achieve professionally and care for the well being of their two children.

As for the education of the kids, since money doesn't seem to be a problem in the Federation, Miles and Keiko don't have to worry about any of the kids being forced to take loans for college or other education.

 

[fireproof78]

And the kids weren't tortured or mistreated. Maybe Molly in Time's Orphan but that was all.

That's all? That's way more than enough.

You don't torture kids.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

Maybe in Star Trek. But what about younglings in Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith? Or similar instances?

 

[at Quark's]

I guess I am the only one that found the "realistic" relationship of Miles and Keiko way too dysfunctional to the point that they did not seem even be able to stand each other and especially on Keiko's end. I was wondering why they did not get divorced. That would seem more realistic. People have gotten divorced for less.

Yes, but not the 'more evolved humans' from the TNG/DS9 era

Which makes me wonder: did we ever see or hear about an actual divorce in one of the classical Star Trek series? (I know we saw breakups, but after being married, I mean?)

 

[Bad Thoughts]

As for the education of the kids, since money doesn't seem to be a problem in the Federation, Miles and Keiko don't have to worry about any of the kids being forced to take loans for college or other education.

Yes, I did address "the constraints of the show."

 

[fireproof78]

Maybe in Star Trek. But what about younglings in Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith? Or similar instances?

One of my huge trigger points, for want of a better phrase, is mistreatment of kids. Even watching "When Calls the Heart" last night and an episode featured the mere hinting that a character had abused a kid was enough to get my ire up.

It is not something I take lightly even in fiction.

 

[Laughing Dragon]

Well, if marriage being miserable and bickering is normal as in it equals being miserable, I actually wonder why so many people like marriage. Keiko did not seem to like Miles most of the time. And I think if people are worried about their career and being able to have time with their spouse, they probably should not get married at all. Especially if they are going to act miserable. Heaven forfend there should be a happy AND realistic one.

 

[Lynx]

That's all? That's way more than enough.

You don't torture kids.

Molly wasn't tortured by Miles or Keiko.

If we see it from our Gray Universe perspective, we could say that the writers in the Gray Universe tortured Molly by coming up with the story. The Gray Universe "gods" aren't always so nice and benevolent to their creations.

But everything was restored back to normal in the end and what I know, Molly had no memories or injuries of what happened.

Contrary to certain other characters in some Star Trek series who remain destroyed.

 

[fireproof78]

Molly wasn't tortured by Miles or Keiko.

This misses the point.

But everything was restored back to normal in the end and what I know, Molly had no memories or injuries of what happened.

Also misses the point.

 

[Frontis]

Actually I think both stories, about the O'Briens and Sisko/Yates, have been written well.

 

[kkt]

That's all? That's way more than enough.

You don't torture kids.

Nobody set out to torture Molly in Time's Orphan. It was an accident that they handled as best they could. If they'd known there was a time portal there they probably would have taken their shore leave 5 miles away. That said, I didn't like the episode much and I think there's a causality problem in the resolution of the story.

 

[fireproof78]

Nobody set out to torture Molly in Time's Orphan. It was an accident that they handled as best they could. If they'd known there was a time portal there they probably would have taken their shore leave 5 miles away. That said, I didn't like the episode much and I think there's a causality problem in the resolution of the story.

I meant more from a writer's perspective. It's a similar reason why Jumanji has lost its luster over the years for me. The story as a whole leans on very thin footings and collapses without much effort.

 

[Lynx]

This misses the point.


Also misses the point.

In what way?

 

[drinkingatquarks]

O'Brien and it's not even close!