Garak vs. Obrien, who is Bashirs best friend?

[Lynx]

Actually, Robinson has gone on record as saying he played it that way at least in the beginning. Supposedly they dropped that not because he was straight but because it would be too chancy. Even if that were not true, he could just be bi. And he turned Ziyal's way because he knew that Bashir was not into him like that. You cannot tell me that Garak's first scene ever with Bashir is not blatant attraction. In the book there was a part where Garak was very angry that Bashir seemed to be spending less time with him or ignoring him. Just because he had a first love does not mean he could not develop an attraction later. He could be bi. Andrew basically said he was fluid sexually so that's close enough.

Here is proof: Link with quotes.

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Actor Wanted His Character to Be Openly Gay

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine was thrust back into the spotlight last year with the release of the documentary What We Left Behind: Looking Back at Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. This year, Deep Space Nine is returning to comics for the first time in over a decade. Part of the discussion around the...

comicbook.com

An actor did something, hoping it would influence the writers. It didn't happen. After that one episode, the writers made no effort to explore Garak's attraction to anything but women. ISB admits it was a lost opportunity, but there was nothing there.

Garak's thing for Ziyal seems like an effort by the showrunners to make him seem more heterosexual, a counter to Robinson's original "I'm so hot for Bashir" attitude.

Robinson obviously did have that idea from the beginning but no one was interested and it was dropped.

And there is nothing in Robinson's book A Stitch In Time which points out Garak as homosexual either.

So it wasn't that way.

I mean, they could as well point out, let's say Picard as homosexual too, due to his awkward interaction with women.

As for Ziyal, I still think that she and garak would have been a nice couple.

 

[Laughing Dragon]

An actor did something, hoping it would influence the writers. It didn't happen. After that one episode, the writers made no effort to explore Garak's attraction to anything but women. ISB admits it was a lost opportunity, but there was nothing there.

He said that was the intention of the scene in the first episode. Just because it was one episode does not mean it never happened or wasn't true, the poster said there was never an attraction at all are you being obtuse of homophobic? He even said thit he tried to slip it in but be less obvious and even thought the heads enjoyed it.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

You have my support, Lynx. Finally someone with courage to say it.

As for what actors say, I lost my faith in them after I read that Jadzia's actress first (around Season 3) supported Jadzia/Julian pairing, but then went to support Jadzia/Worf pairing. Unlike fans, actors are not stable in their perceptions of characters.

 

[Laughing Dragon]

Robinson obviously did have that idea from the beginning but no one was interested and it was dropped.

And there is nothing in Robinson's book A Stitch In Time which points out Garak as homosexual either.

So it wasn't that way.

I mean, they could as well point out, let's say Picard as homosexual too, due to his awkward interaction with women.

As for Ziyal, I still think that she and garak would have been a nice couple.

Who said no one? Do only people with your views count? What about the kiss between Uhura and Kirk? Does that mean no one liked it because some handful of southern losers could not handle it? Picard theory has no weight (I don't remember that anyway). He was openly gay in his intro. "Nice couple" does not negate the attraction to Bashir. You are right to your pairing prefs, though.

You have my support, Lynx. Finally someone with courage to say it.

As for what actors say, I lost my faith in them after I read that Jadzia's actress first (around Season 3) supported Jadzia/Julian pairing, but then went to support Jadzia/Worf pairing. Unlike fans, actors are not stable in their perceptions of characters.

Finally say what I ask? What courage? It's just a preference right?

 

[Tosk]

And there is nothing in Robinson's book A Stitch In Time which points out Garak as homosexual either.

Because he's not homosexual. That would mean he was only sexually/romatically attracted to other males. Garak is attracted to people regardless of their gender. (Although the show itself is never explicit on the matter, so this is in the realm of related media.)

It's not ignored in A Stitch in Time. Garak is attracted to both Eight Lubak and One Charaban as well as Palandine.

 

[Laughing Dragon]

Because he's not homosexual. That would mean he was only sexually/romatically attracted to other males. Garak is attracted to people regardless of their gender. (Although the show itself is never explicit on the matter, so this is in the realm of related media.)

It's not ignored in A Stitch in Time. Garak is attracted to both Eight Lubak and One Charaban as well as Palandine.

Yeah, Robinson said that he just saw an attractive person and gender was not important to him. Meaning more fluid as I said. Before I read that interview, I assumed he was bi. Also, there is the fact that he's an alien if people want to get into morality. Sexuality may be approached differently. But that's a topic for another time.

^possibly, but even then, the attraction seems to come more from Ziyal's side than his.

Personally, I couldn't care less as to whether he is hetero/gay/bi. Unless when it would somehow be important to the greater story that is told.

About Ziyal I agree. I think the initial "attraction" was because he was the only Cardassian in that whole place when she came along. I am sure that made him feel alone. She was his closest thing to home.

 

[Tomalak]

I’m thinking that applying 21st century human conceptions and labels of sexual orientation to an alien lizard man is a trifle reductive.

 

[Mage]

Personally, I don't see it. I think Garak cared for her greatly, but I'm not so sure he ever felt a romantic love the way she did.

Agreed. Garak cared deeply for Ziyal, and recognized that she was in love with him.
I would dare say (and want to go on record saying it's not a healthy thing at all) that he nurtured that love she felt. Not for him, but for her.
She's an outcast with no real home. Like him. And the daughter of one of the most hated men in the Alfa/Beta quadrants. Being separated from home and loved ones did a number on Garak. I think he nurtured that love she felt so she would never turn bitter and hateful. That a part of her would always be capable of positive, healthy emotions.
Now of course, that's all headcanon from me. And like I said, not really very emotionally healthy at all. But Garak was a flawed man and did many things that perhaps were not that great for greater purposes.

Oh, and O'Brien is for sure Bashir's best friend.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

It takes courage to state one's personal preference despite the fact that one knows said preference would be... Unpopular among others.

As for informations from the actors, they are neither canon nor entirely reliable (due to what I stared above).

Garak is attracted to women, that much is clear. There is no canon information whatever he is bisexual or not. However, I think it is pretty clear Bashir is not interested in him in this manner.

And, as for the friends, O'Brien is definitely his best friend, especially in later seasons (in season 1 - 2, I would say Jadzia is his best friend, especially from her side).

 

[Laughing Dragon]

It takes courage to state one's personal preference despite the fact that one knows said preference would be... Unpopular among others.

As for informations from the actors, they are neither canon nor entirely reliable (due to what I stared above).

Garak is attracted to women, that much is clear. There is no canon information whatever he is bisexual or not. However, I think it is pretty clear Bashir is not interested in him in this manner.

And, as for the friends, O'Brien is definitely his best friend, especially in later seasons (in season 1 - 2, I would say Jadzia is his best friend, especially from her side).

I agree about Bashir that it would be one-sided most likely and said it in a previous post. Are you saying the idea of sexual attraction to other males is popular? At least there is some truth in Garak and Bashir.

 

[Tosk]

Garak is attracted to women, that much is clear.

What canon material are you basing that on?

However, I think it is pretty clear Bashir is not interested in him in this manner.

I don't think anyone except desperate shippers would argue otherwise.

It takes courage to state one's personal preference despite the fact that one knows said preference would be... Unpopular among others.

Aren't we all doing that? Where's my damn kudos?!

 

[Laughing Dragon]

What canon material are you basing that on?


I don't think anyone except desperate shippers would argue otherwise.

In the case of "Desperate" shippers, we don't even know how Julian would react in the long run. He may have ended up being bi too if they were able to continue but I doubt it because he was portrayed as being infatuated with Dax. And if I were to choose a female partner it would be her. But yeah, him being straight would be canon. Though, Siddig himself was not against idea of Garak/Bashir.

Anyway, this was more about friendship, the gay stuff just leaked in and snowballed.

 

[Tosk]

In the case of "Desperate" shippers, we don't even know how Julian would react in the long run. He may have ended up being bi too if [...]

I wasn't talking about there being any chance for a same-sex relationship for Bashir ever...I was referring only to the claim that he is not interested in Garak in that manner.

 

[Laughing Dragon]

I wasn't talking about there being any chance for a same-sex relationship for Bashir ever...I was referring only to the claim that he is not interested in Garak in that manner.

Well, yeah, I said that canonically he would not be interested its more of a could have been.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

I agree about Bashir that it would be one-sided most likely and said it in a previous post. Are you saying the idea of sexual attraction to other males is popular? At least there is some truth in Garak and Bashir.

Maybe not as much it is popular, as directly claiming against it, even in characters that are clearly only interested in women (and even without going into AUs) is not popular. Then again, I may be wrong.

Anyway, this was more about friendship, the gay stuff just leaked in and snowballed.

I fully agree. Unfortunately, such things has a tendency to do that.


As for canonicity of his attraction to women, I think he at least wasn't against Ziyal's attraction to him, and there is that thing in the book (I know it it's canon). Unfortunately, there is little material to work on. Garak also tried to set up Odo once, so he at least understand a lot about male - female relationships, although it could be just from observation (although I don't think so).

Of course, there is an option that Garak is not interested in anyone right now. It's not like everyone needs a romance (my Kes does just fine with only friendships).

 

[Mage]

As for what actors say, I lost my faith in them after I read that Jadzia's actress first (around Season 3) supported Jadzia/Julian pairing, but then went to support Jadzia/Worf pairing. Unlike fans, actors are not stable in their perceptions of characters.

Oh, right. People aren't allowed to change their minds....
Season 3 had no Worf in it, so it's fair that Terry felt that Jadzia/Julian could work.
Then Worf came along and she felt that her character works better with him.
And fans are the most unstable people out there. It's from the word fanatic. I stopped calling myself a fan years ago. I enjoy my franchises, no need to get obsessives and fanatic about imaginary people.

Right now I have deep feelings for someone that I know are not being returned. I can't see myself falling for someone else right now. However, I have no idea who I might meet in the coming years. Perhaps I will get to know someone and find love elsewhere. Or someone from my past who I never considered compatible with me than but is now, after we've both changed over the last 20-25 years.

Live does this odd thing of changing people. This is why it's ludicrous for fans to insist that characters remain the same over a period of seven years.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

I have nothing against people changing. But I do say that producers changing their minds mid - show causes a person to doubt anything they say unless it's supported by canon (because they can change their minds later).

Actually, a lot of my fanfiction and hopes are based around people changing.

 

[Tosk]

and there is that thing in the book (I know it it's canon)

The books are not canon.

(That doesn't mean you can't use them to back up an opinion though of course.)

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

I meant to say they aren't canon, but I mis-spelledm

 

[Sim]

Not canon, but in the TNG/DS9 relaunch crossover novels, Garak has a male life partner/husband, a guy about his age, iirc. I think it was in one of the "Typhon Pact" or "The Fall" novels.