Garak in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement + first look at the Cover!

[Iamnotspock]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

That's interesting. On English-language keyboards (at least American ones), the apostrophe ( ' ) is the lower-case item on the far right key of the home row, and if you shift it you get a quotation mark ( " ). (I think the British call them inverted commas.) I hadn't realized German-language keyboards would do it differently. But then, doesn't German use a different kind of quotation indicator, something like << >> ?

We do, although 'quotation mark' is acceptable here too. On a UK keyboard, the apostrophe is on the same key as the '@', while the quotation mark is on the '2' key.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

On a UK keyboard, the apostrophe is on the same key as the '@', while the quotation mark is on the '2' key.

And here we have the '@' on the '2' key! You're in some freaky mixed-up mirror world, man!

Or am I...?

 

[Kilana2]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

That's interesting. On English-language keyboards (at least American ones), the apostrophe ( ' ) is the lower-case item on the far right key of the home row, and if you shift it you get a quotation mark ( " ). (I think the British call them inverted commas.) I hadn't realized German-language keyboards would do it differently. But then, doesn't German use a different kind of quotation indicator, something like << >> ?

Don´t get me started with different keyboards (German/British/American/Chinese etc). I have Windows 7, no need for changes. Several days ago I got into this forum with another notebook with Windows 8. I wanted to write in English. Every single word was underscored in red. So I changed the language to American English. The change turned my keyboard into an American one with Y turning into Z and so on. I wanted to keep the German keyboard while writing in English. I finally found out how to effect the changes. One small checkmark was missing. No such problems with Windows 7, though.

As to the apostrophes, I find Markonian's advice very helpful, I only need some getting used to it.

I also found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#German_.28Germany_and_Austria.29

 

[Kilana2]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

That's interesting. On English-language keyboards (at least American ones), the apostrophe ( ' ) is the lower-case item on the far right key of the home row, and if you shift it you get a quotation mark ( " ). (I think the British call them inverted commas.) I hadn't realized German-language keyboards would do it differently. But then, doesn't German use a different kind of quotation indicator, something like << >> ?

We do, although 'quotation mark' is acceptable here too. On a UK keyboard, the apostrophe is on the same key as the '@', while the quotation mark is on the '2' key.

The @ is on the same key as the quotation mark and Nr. 2 when I switch my keyboard to English (USA). And it changes the letters (y = z). On a German keyboard @ is "Alt Gr + Q". Very confusing, so no need to change the keyboard.

 

[Jeri]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

That cover is sleek and to the point; it's gorgeous. Thanks!

 

[Christopher]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

Don´t get me started with different keyboards (German/British/American/Chinese etc). I have Windows 7, no need for changes. Several days ago I got into this forum with another notebook with Windows 8. I wanted to write in English. Every single word was underscored in red. So I changed the language to American English. The change turned my keyboard into an American one with Y turning into Z and so on.

It actually changes what's displayed on your keyboard keys? How? Is it a virtual keyboard on a touchscreen?

 

[Kilana2]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

Don´t get me started with different keyboards (German/British/American/Chinese etc). I have Windows 7, no need for changes. Several days ago I got into this forum with another notebook with Windows 8. I wanted to write in English. Every single word was underscored in red. So I changed the language to American English. The change turned my keyboard into an American one with Y turning into Z and so on.

It actually changes what's displayed on your keyboard keys? How? Is it a virtual keyboard on a touchscreen?

It is a normal notebook keypad. And it is what Windows 7 does when I change the language.

I guess you have QWERTY.
I have QWERTZ as keyboard layout.

In this forum I write in English with German language settings. The English (US) settings changes the keyboard layout automatically. It is also possible to pick the English settings with a German keyboard layout. It has to be adjusted manually.

 

[Idran]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

Just to clarify in case you're still confused, Christopher, she means the keyboard layout in software, not the physical keyboard layout. You can set your computer to use any keyboard layout you want independent of what's actually printed on the keys or what it's designed for. And like Kilana said, German keyboards use a QWERTZ layout for the letters rather than QWERTY.

 

[Kilana2]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

Got my keyboard layout problem solved.

I haven't found the Atonement cover anywhere else. And Garak as guest in it will be great. I can't wait for this to be released.

 

[Csalem]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

On a UK keyboard, the apostrophe is on the same key as the '@', while the quotation mark is on the '2' key.

And here we have the '@' on the '2' key! You're in some freaky mixed-up mirror world, man!

Or am I...?

I had this problem recently when the " on my 2 key became @, and vice versa. I was nearly in a state of panic thinking maybe I had a virus or I did something to damage my laptop. Contacted my IT friend and he said the language settings on my computer had switched from English (UK) to English (American).

I love how we all speak English but create these differences just to confuse ourselves. And I am writing this on my laptop in Ireland!

 

[Kilana2]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

On a UK keyboard, the apostrophe is on the same key as the '@', while the quotation mark is on the '2' key.

And here we have the '@' on the '2' key! You're in some freaky mixed-up mirror world, man!

Or am I...?

I had this problem recently when the " on my 2 key became @, and vice versa. I was nearly in a state of panic thinking maybe I had a virus or I did something to damage my laptop. Contacted my IT friend and he said the language settings on my computer had switched from English (UK) to English (American).

I love how we all speak English but create these differences just to confuse ourselves. And I am writing this on my laptop in Ireland!

Switching from American to British English is bad enough. Be glad, that it didn't turn into Chinese or Dominionese.

 

[Galekarens]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

PS the Atonement cover image from the link is now listed in Memory Beta on the Atonement page, but doesn't look like it for Memory Alpha.

 

[JD]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

I like that cover. It's simple, but it still gets it's point across.

I didn't realize different English speaking countries had different keyboard layouts. I had always assumed that every country that used the English alphabet used the same keyboard layout.

 

[Idran]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

If I remember my history right, originally typewriters on both sides of the pond had the currently-British "-above-2-@-near-carriage-return layout, because @ was used much more often in general industry than " (financial purposes and all), so it was thought that it ought to be closer to home row resting position for convenience-sake. For the same reason, ' was also a meta key (looks like it used to be Shift+8 on most typewriters) and the cent symbol was where ' is on a keyboard now. That layout ended up carrying over into TTY terminals. There, though, @ and the cent symbol were getting increasingly less common while " and ' were getting increasingly more, mostly because of computer programming. Some terminal keyboard layout over here swapped things around as a result (Wikipedia says it was the IBM Selectric that first made that swap), and it just took hold from there in the US as a whole.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

^Darn, I wish I still had a typewriter so I could check that.

 

[Markonian]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

A very insightful discussion!

For years I had a typewriter with Kyrillic script but strange letters until years later I realized it wasn't a Russian typewriter but a Bulgarian one.

The keyboard layout is important for me at work. I'm in customer support chat and am very lucky to have a German keyboard. My colleagues from phone support are working with English keyboards.

But the @ is in a different place, and when I'm on my home laptop, I have to mentally switch back.

I hope LCARS will be standardized.

 

[Idran]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

Unfortunately I think LCARS is the exact opposite of standardized if I remember right.

Not even mentioning it just to be pedantic, but because I think it's kind of a cool concept from a UI design point of view: from what I remember, there's a base interface that every user customizes to their own personal preference in terms of location and arrangement of interface elements when they're active at a given console, meaning that everyone can set their station up to whatever's most efficient for them personally. I think it's a biometric thing for user identification?

Though now that makes me wonder if LCARS is strictly a Starfleet operating system or if civilian computers also use it. I can't remember offhand, are there any examples of strictly civilian Federation computer systems using LCARS interfaces?

 

[Avro Arrow]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

I will, somewhat frequently, accidentally use the hotkey sequence that changes my keyboard setting to "Canadian French". I don't usually notice until I type ' and it comes out as `, or I type ? and get É instead.

I didn't realize different English speaking countries had different keyboard layouts. I had always assumed that every country that used the English alphabet used the same keyboard layout.

Want to have some real fun? Switch your keyboard to Dvorak. Hilarity ensues!

 

[Sci]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

Though now that makes me wonder if LCARS is strictly a Starfleet operating system or if civilian computers also use it. I can't remember offhand, are there any examples of strictly civilian Federation computer systems using LCARS interfaces?

Well, we know that the Raven, Seven of Nine's parents' ship, was using an LCARS operating system in the 2350s. Unfortunately, the canon is not entirely clear on whether the Raven is a Starfleet vessel or not -- in "The Raven," it is introduced as the S.S. Raven, implying a civilian ship; but in "Dark Frontier," it is referred to as the USS Raven, implying a Starfleet vessel (potentially on loan to the Hansens through a civilian research program?).

I'm inclined to assume that it's actually the S.S. Raven and a privately-owned civilian ship. In which case, apparently there are some editions of the LCARS operating system available for civilian use.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Elim Garak to appear in Kirsten Beyer´s Atonement

Though now that makes me wonder if LCARS is strictly a Starfleet operating system or if civilian computers also use it. I can't remember offhand, are there any examples of strictly civilian Federation computer systems using LCARS interfaces?

Maybe not LCARS specifically, but pretty much every computer interface we saw in the 24th-century series was a touchscreen system, since it was cheaper for the production staff to print up colored transparencies than to build physical control banks.

The Raven in VGR was an apparently civilian Federation ship that used Starfleet-style technology and LCARS consoles, but it may have been a decommissioned Starfleet vessel.