Garak - Andrew Robinson’s portrayal

[TimeIsAPredator]

Dukat was the best villain in Star Trek!

And the Cardassians were the perfect "bad guys", much better than the Borg. They didn't have super powers or superior technology or weren't inhuman killing machines. Instead they were cunning, smart, violent and unreliable.

And at the end of the series, I cheered for them when they fought the genocidial Dominion!

That is the real point of how brilliant they were. No matter how bad they got they could trick you (both characters and audience) into liking them in the end. Dukat and Damar both done it and we really should not like Garak either but they were all compelling and nuanced

 

[STEPhon IT]

From Wikipedia

So the FCC didn't raised their arms a crazed when Ira produced the episode "Rejoined". If he had these thoughts on making Garak bi, which I don't believe during the series run, he could have because there were already shows on TV during that time which had such characters and treated them with dignity and respect. Hercules and Xena was another show which opened the doors. Star Trek was THE franchise which boldly go... if the thought of Garak was to be "Bi" this franchise would be the vessel to do it and it wasn't because the character is not.

 

[Guy Gardener]

So the FCC didn't raised their arms a crazed when Ira produced the episode "Rejoined". If he had these thoughts on making Garak bi, which I don't believe during the series run, he could have because there were already shows on TV during that time which had such characters and treated them with dignity and respect. Hercules and Xena was another show which opened the doors. Star Trek was THE franchise which boldly go... if the thought of Garak was to be "Bi" this franchise would be the vessel to do it and it wasn't because the character is not.

The FCC has already handed down record fines against nets in the past two years (see Emmys.tv News: Four TV Nets Take FCC to Court), the largest of which—$3.3 million levied against CBS and its affliates for airing an episode of crime drama Without A Trace containing simulated orgy scene—is currently under review.

It was a different time.

 

[Kor]

The FCC generally only takes action against a broadcaster in response to viewer complaints regarding content that contravenes FCC guidelines (the FCC does not have the resources to have someone constantly watching and listening to all TV and radio content), and then only if review and investigation by the FCC determines that the broadcaster is in violation. The kiss in "Rejoined" was not a depiction of actual sexual activity, so I doubt that it would have been found to be in violation of FCC guidelines.

Kor

 

[Maurice]

So the FCC didn't raised their arms a crazed when Ira produced the episode "Rejoined". If he had these thoughts on making Garak bi, which I don't believe during the series run, he could have because there were already shows on TV during that time which had such characters and treated them with dignity and respect. Hercules and Xena was another show which opened the doors. Star Trek was THE franchise which boldly go... if the thought of Garak was to be "Bi" this franchise would be the vessel to do it and it wasn't because the character is not.

Oh FFS... Soap had a gay lead character back in the 70s on network broadcast TV, so invoking the FCC is a total non sequitur.

You know why Star Trek ducked these issues? They were afraid of controversy, especially where their direct syndication model often landed the show in early evening where kids could watch it. It was fear of losing $$$. They could have done it, but they were chicken because the shows were Paramount's TV gravy train, that's it.

 

[Kor]

Oh FFS... Soap had a gay lead character back in the 70s on network broadcast TV, so invoking the FCC is a total non sequitur.

You know why Star Trek ducked these issues? They were afraid of controversy, especially where their direct syndication model often landed the show in early evening where kids could watch it. It was fear of losing $$$. They could have done it, but they were chicken because the shows were Paramount's TV gravy train, that's it.

Just wanted to point out that Guy Gardener was the one who invoked the FCC a couple pages ago:

Star trek is a children's show and, it mostly aired during the hours when such things were forbotten by the fcc.

I believe STEPHon IT may have just been seeking clarification on that.

Kor

 

[Sci]

The sheer number of people in this thread who have confidently proven to us that subtext does not count is remarkable. Surely you should all communicate your analytical methods to the literature departments of the world's universities -- the proof that subtext does not count and only that which is explicitly stated can be said to be true of a text would revolutionize literature, film, and television across the planet!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Just wanted to point out that Guy Gardener was the one who invoked the FCC a couple pages ago:

I believe STEPHon IT may have just been seeking clarification on that.

Kor

Will and Grace got a big fine for a promo that had two gay men in bed together, because it aired earlier than the show did.

90s Star Trek is safe.

They didnt rock the boat.

You'll find that most of the early gay characters never dated, never had a partner, and never same gender kissed anyone. Which is a generalisation, and of course there are exceptions.

In Soap Billy Crystal wound up dating a lesbian.

Look a the lengths Xena (the show) went to to hide how gay it was.

Just good friends my ass.

I can't clarify what the producers were thinking about censorship beyond Far Beyond The Stars is an allegory for a normal week at paramount.

Berman is homophobic, that's on the record, but all that homopbia was reserved for Voyager.

 

[Jellico]

I’ve loved Andrew Robinson since he portrayed Scorpio in Dirty Harry. He was so creepy. As I understand it, he’s had a kind of cult following since then. He was in a Hellraser movie. I’ve seen him in one movie, about the Continental Congress, where he was credited with a different first name. I’m sorry I can’t remember the title of the movie.

Garak is my favorite DS9 character and it’s because of Andrew’s performance.

 

[kkt]

I’ve loved Andrew Robinson since he portrayed Scorpio in Dirty Harry. He was so creepy. As I understand it, he’s had a kind of cult following since then. He was in a Hellraser movie. I’ve seen him in one movie, about the Continental Congress, where he was credited with a different first name. I’m sorry I can’t remember the title of the movie.

Do post if you remember the name of the movie or Robinson's credited name. IMDB and Wikipedia don't see to know about them.

I liked him as the kid in Charley Varrick.

 

[Jellico]

The name of the movie is, A More Perfect Union. It’s not a Hollywood type movie.There is a Wikipedia article; A More Perfect Union (film). His name does not appear in the credits there. He played one of the founders and his face was very clear. I think his name , as the credits rolled, was there with a different first name. I do have a dvd and will check that when I get the chance.

 

[oberth]

The name of the movie is, A More Perfect Union. It’s not a Hollywood type movie.There is a Wikipedia article; A More Perfect Union (film). His name does not appear in the credits there. He played one of the founders and his face was very clear. I think his name , as the credits rolled, was there with a different first name. I do have a dvd and will check that when I get the chance.

there's a dana f robinson playing abraham baldwin, but why would he use an alias? besides being elim garak, that is. - click -

 

[kkt]

My college library has a copy! I've requested it and should be able to watch it next weekend or so.

Looks like it's a college film production, as well as a documentary not a drama, so maybe it's something about the Screen Actors' Guild.

 

[Worf's Beard]

Do you know the Garak novel A Stitch in Time?..... It's a great reading about Garak's life.

I'm currently reading that right now. It's so far been brilliant and Andrew Robinson knows how to write a compelling story. It's a good read that gives a more detailed and thorough investigation of his complex character.

Elim Garak is my favourite character in DS9 (yes, even surpassing Worf for me), and Andrew Robinson plays him brilliantly.

 

[Lynx]

I'm currently reading that right now. It's so far been brilliant and Andrew Robinson knows how to write a compelling story. It's a good read that gives a more detailed and thorough investigation of his complex character.

Elim Garak is my favourite character in DS9 (yes, even surpassing Worf for me), and Andrew Robinson plays him brilliantly.

I just can't decide if Garak or Quark is my favorite DS9 character. I like them both for different reasons. Quark most for being both funny and devious and Garak for being such a complex and interesting character.

Kira is my third favorite among in a series with excellent characters and great actors.

As for the book "A Stitch In Time", I bought it as a Christmas gift to myself in 2019 and read it for the second time this Christmas. It's an excellent book.

As for Star Trek favorites, I've realized that two of my three all-time favorites are from DS9 and none of the three favorites are considered as absolute main characters:

 

[Worf's Beard]

I just can't decide if Garak or Quark is my favorite DS9 character. I like them both for different reasons. Quark most for being both funny and devious and Garak for being such a complex and interesting character.



Kira is my third favorite among in a series with excellent characters and great actors.



As for the book "A Stitch In Time", I bought it as a Christmas gift to myself in 2019 and read it for the second time this Christmas. It's an excellent book.



As for Star Trek favorites, I've realized that two of my three all-time favorites are from DS9 and none of the three favorites are considered as absolute main characters:



Quark ended up being one of my favourite characters (not up there, but near), but I didn't like him to start with. I think TNG did put me off the Ferengi and I saw them as one-note back then. However, DS9 did flesh them out, with Quark being different to his brother, ROM, while Nog wasn't either of them, their mother was someone who went against Ferengi attitutes to the female of their species, etc. Rom even went on to do the thing that Ferengis don't appreciate: form a union.

Going back to Garak, I just think that Andrew Robinson is such a talent in how he became plain and simple Garak. It's just amazing that he had enough talent left to write a fantastic book, too.

Oh, yeah, Kira is definitely one of my favourites. In my next three after Garak in DS9, along with Worf and O'Brien.

 

[STEPhon IT]

It was a different time.

I'd seen enough television to know these writers and showrunners can be creative in producing the implication of a character's sexual orientation without being explicit, and would not stick out like sore thumb. If Ira wanted to make Garak so, he would have. I don't buy his retrospective admission, especially when other writers in the 90's were developing Gay characters and were successful. No, I don't believe him.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'd seen enough television to know these writers and showrunners can be creative in producing the implication of a character's sexual orientation without being explicit, and would not stick out like sore thumb. If Ira wanted to make Garak so, he would have. I don't buy his retrospective admission, especially when other writers in the 90's were developing Gay characters and were successful. No, I don't believe him.

Who were the successful gay characters in the 90s?

 

[Maurice]

Ira has gone on the record as saying they should have done more.

Including directly to me when I met him at the NYC premiere of WWLB.

Now, maybe that's just good politics and good business, but I'd like to believe he's sincere in his regret.

This is a late response, but as late as 2015 Behr was telling this story about Risa where he WTFed the idea of gay sex.

 

[DonIago]

I watched the clip and nothing there seems to be specifically about gay sex so much as depicting sexual activity in general.