And most military/history buffs would realize this is a fantasy show about battling undead.......not really a documentary. #30yearveteran I can just enjoy the show.
Spoilers Game of Thrones: The Final Season
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
They can defeat Cersei, they just can’t conventionally defeat her army.
I haven't quite gathered my thoughts on the episode as a whole, but it remains frustrating to me that these writers still can't seem to resist creating unnecessary melodrama, even when it's thankfully overshadowed by awesome moments of badassery.
Sansa and Tyrion reconnecting and going out to fight instead of hiding was nice to see, but there was absolutely no need for h
Sansa to be so flippantly dismissive of Dany, especially after last week's episode when Dany made a good-faith effort to extend an 'olive branch'.
Sansa and Tyrion reconnecting and going out to fight instead of hiding was nice to see, but there was absolutely no need for h
Sansa to be so flippantly dismissive of Dany, especially after last week's episode when Dany made a good-faith effort to extend an 'olive branch'.
Is she actually beloved by her people? Or just feared? The same people who threw shit in her face a couple of seasons back? Maybe that's a lever to undermine her... after all Jon is good at uniting vastly different and opposed groups (and sometimes he has to die for it). But I think Jon himself won't end up as king - he's a king's (queen's?) maker. We saw it with Winterfell: Who took care of all the day-to-day affairs? That wasn't him.
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Yeah, exactly how I understood it.
On the thoughts of the rest just being then against Cersei, I really think there's going to be something unexpected coming as well. Perhaps something causes Bran to become a new Night King or something.
I don't know, I suppose there might only be enough episodes to deal with the Iron Throne issue with enough twists and turns in the story. But personally, I don't think death of the Night King will be the last we see of the dead.
Had a a few hours to reflect and think about it so here goes:
The Not so Good:
- Given the whole mythology aspect the end of the Night King was underwhelming. He's this huge supernatural force, the Master of the Undead and the only real threat it seems (or is the Three Eyed Raven even a threat given that he's basically just mankind's librarian?) is Bran who basically does nothing the entire episode other than chilling out in his chair whole mayhem raged around him
Maybe i expected too much Fantasy from GoT but i hoped there would be some kind of mystical battle, some "Holy Shit WTF?" Hodor level event that would blow everyone's mind but no.. Night King walks all over the defenders and get's knifed in the gut by Westero's version of a Ninja (admittedly it was hella cool and i yelled out loudly when it happened
)
- Military strategy
Ummm.. what strategy? So their army consists basically of 4 elements - airforce with some superpowerful dragons / highly mobile shock troops aka Dothraki (with a weapon upgrade), elite defensive troops with the Unsullied and basic infantry of various classes.
So they rush their shock troops headlong with little support into an enemy that can't be shocked or broken and has vastly superior numbers and who can easily take the charge. What happens? They bog down the highly mobile cavalry and then take them out (seen Braveheart and the first major battle? Basically that happened to the Dothraki). Who was the master strategist who came up with that bullshit plan?
Then you hold back your airforce for much too long though i kinda give them a pass on that one since they don't know where the Night King is so being tied down on the battlefield might cost them the entire battle if the Night King suddenly dropped down and have Zombie Viserion just toast Bran.
- Indestructible plot armor
Given how the show started and made its mark no one was safe.. "Hey, there's Sean Bean as Ned Stark. He's cool.. WTF?", Jaime losing his sword hand (and pretty much what defined him up to that point), a ton of other secondary characters dying left and right (Red Wedding anyone?) but ever since the Battle of the Bastards and its Hollywood like rescue in the final moment i felt the handbrakes were firmly pulled and no major death happened anymore.
I had hoped that at least 1 or 2 from the main, frontline cast would buy it alongside with a few secondary characters and most of the tertiary characters. What we got was some tertiary characters and and very few secondaries.. kinda underwhelming considering the enemy and the odds and i feel like the show (or maybe even Martin if they follow his vision closely enough) are pulling their punches and doing more fan service than is good for the show.
The Good:
- so many single cool moments.. starting with Melisandre lighting the Dothraki weapons up, the Dothraki charging ahead and seeing all the lights wink out bit by bit, the aerial battle between the Dragon Riders, Lyanna Mormont going out like a boss and Arya whooping some ass.
It's still 3 episodes left with long running times each so there's still some huge things still to happen and i'm kinda glad the show is returning to the core.. interesting and tense character interactions. There's surely another big battle coming when Cersei's army and the remnants of Winterfell engage (if at all, maybe there's going to be a twist) but the resolution of the show will probably be not with a huge bang but a quite intimate and personal one (my money is now heavily on Jaime to take out Cersei).
The Not so Good:
- Given the whole mythology aspect the end of the Night King was underwhelming. He's this huge supernatural force, the Master of the Undead and the only real threat it seems (or is the Three Eyed Raven even a threat given that he's basically just mankind's librarian?) is Bran who basically does nothing the entire episode other than chilling out in his chair whole mayhem raged around him
Maybe i expected too much Fantasy from GoT but i hoped there would be some kind of mystical battle, some "Holy Shit WTF?" Hodor level event that would blow everyone's mind but no.. Night King walks all over the defenders and get's knifed in the gut by Westero's version of a Ninja (admittedly it was hella cool and i yelled out loudly when it happened
)- Military strategy
Ummm.. what strategy? So their army consists basically of 4 elements - airforce with some superpowerful dragons / highly mobile shock troops aka Dothraki (with a weapon upgrade), elite defensive troops with the Unsullied and basic infantry of various classes.
So they rush their shock troops headlong with little support into an enemy that can't be shocked or broken and has vastly superior numbers and who can easily take the charge. What happens? They bog down the highly mobile cavalry and then take them out (seen Braveheart and the first major battle? Basically that happened to the Dothraki). Who was the master strategist who came up with that bullshit plan?
Then you hold back your airforce for much too long though i kinda give them a pass on that one since they don't know where the Night King is so being tied down on the battlefield might cost them the entire battle if the Night King suddenly dropped down and have Zombie Viserion just toast Bran.
- Indestructible plot armor
Given how the show started and made its mark no one was safe.. "Hey, there's Sean Bean as Ned Stark. He's cool.. WTF?", Jaime losing his sword hand (and pretty much what defined him up to that point), a ton of other secondary characters dying left and right (Red Wedding anyone?) but ever since the Battle of the Bastards and its Hollywood like rescue in the final moment i felt the handbrakes were firmly pulled and no major death happened anymore.
I had hoped that at least 1 or 2 from the main, frontline cast would buy it alongside with a few secondary characters and most of the tertiary characters. What we got was some tertiary characters and and very few secondaries.. kinda underwhelming considering the enemy and the odds and i feel like the show (or maybe even Martin if they follow his vision closely enough) are pulling their punches and doing more fan service than is good for the show.
The Good:
- so many single cool moments.. starting with Melisandre lighting the Dothraki weapons up, the Dothraki charging ahead and seeing all the lights wink out bit by bit, the aerial battle between the Dragon Riders, Lyanna Mormont going out like a boss and Arya whooping some ass.
It's still 3 episodes left with long running times each so there's still some huge things still to happen and i'm kinda glad the show is returning to the core.. interesting and tense character interactions. There's surely another big battle coming when Cersei's army and the remnants of Winterfell engage (if at all, maybe there's going to be a twist) but the resolution of the show will probably be not with a huge bang but a quite intimate and personal one (my money is now heavily on Jaime to take out Cersei).
Having watched the video myself, I have to say this is one of their best behind-the-scenes features. I've always loved seeing how things come together on shows and films like Doctor Who and Lord of the Rings,, so it was especially wonderful to see how this very complex episode came together over the course of 55 days.
I like how director Miguel Sapochnik described the episode having three acts, broken down as a monster movie, a horror movie, and an action movie.
One of the biggest highlights was seeing the stunt work Maisie Williams did for the episode, ranging from the action sequences with the staff, hiding in the library, and finally her attack on the Night King. Seeing Bella Ramsey's stun work for Lyanna's death was also interesting, especially the way how they filmed the moment where a CGI model was overlaid with the live action while filming.
Peter Dinklage also thought it was folly that they hid in the crypt.
There's Yara who could take on her uncle, leveling the playingfield a bit... and Varys certainly also had some contacts in the mercenary-trade on Essos. Maybe he got the elephants actually on ship and Cersei can see them before they trample through the city. *g*
For quite awhile now, I felt that Arya was certainly going to take out the NK, and that happened. The only the other thing I felt that certain about is that Jamie will take down Cersei. Although, I suspect that they both end up dying together somehow. I think those two events are "fixed points" (to borrow from Doctor Who) in the GoT timeline!
But, we'll see!
The white Walkers had anti aircraft spears that prevent attacking forces from being reckless. Last time Dany got cocky, she gave a dragon to the enemy.
I have always thought that the Big Bad has always been Mankind itself.
Thousands of years ago men where slaughtering the Children of the Forest so the Children used a man to create the White Walkers. They used Mankind’s innate nature against him. There were able to increase their numbers because of men like Craster who was willing to give up his own sons to protect his own skin.
It was the divisions between Mankind that kept the Wildlings beyond The Wall thereby giving the Might King a source for his army. It was Daenerys quest of power that bought her Westeros and eventually lead to her taking a dragon beyond The Wall thus giving the NK the means to bring The Wall down.
Thousands of years ago men where slaughtering the Children of the Forest so the Children used a man to create the White Walkers. They used Mankind’s innate nature against him. There were able to increase their numbers because of men like Craster who was willing to give up his own sons to protect his own skin.
It was the divisions between Mankind that kept the Wildlings beyond The Wall thereby giving the Might King a source for his army. It was Daenerys quest of power that bought her Westeros and eventually lead to her taking a dragon beyond The Wall thus giving the NK the means to bring The Wall down.
The Valonqar line is only from the books, not in the show, so D&D kept their options open about who can kill Cersei. How as well.
Me after watching last night's episode.
Yes, I know of Botet. He played Ba'ul on Star Trek Discovery
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The haunting music played during the final montage, "The Night King," is streaming on Spotify now.
I'm glad they didn't have some drawn out hand to hand battle with the Night King. It just wouldn't make sense with his MO. The Hobbit movies excessively drew out their final combat scenarios. But it would have worked better if they showed us how Arya got there and where she jumped out of so there was more tension on whether she would be able to pull it off.
I'm not sure how many people they could have killed in the main cast. Dany, the Starks, and the Lannisters at least have an obvious need to be alive in the Cersei machinations. So the list of additional characters they could have killed is pretty much Brienne, Sam, The Hound. Maybe one or more of them should have died heroically.
Maybe The Hound could have had to help her distract the dead so she could sneak into the tree or something, and fulfill his destiny as well.
Maybe the problem is they overkilled the secondary characters in earlier seasons without replenishing the well, and didn't have enough characters left who didn't have specific destinies.
I'm not sure how many people they could have killed in the main cast. Dany, the Starks, and the Lannisters at least have an obvious need to be alive in the Cersei machinations. So the list of additional characters they could have killed is pretty much Brienne, Sam, The Hound. Maybe one or more of them should have died heroically.
Maybe The Hound could have had to help her distract the dead so she could sneak into the tree or something, and fulfill his destiny as well.
Maybe the problem is they overkilled the secondary characters in earlier seasons without replenishing the well, and didn't have enough characters left who didn't have specific destinies.
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This season reminds me of season 4 of Babylon 5 in a way. The more serious threat to everyone (White Walkers/Shadows) taken out early while the at home/this is personal threat (Cersi/President Clark) is handled in the back half. Jon's forces took a bit more of a beating in the serious threat battle though.
Also, did Arya rip off Rey in 'The Last Jedi' with her Night King finishing move?
Also, did Arya rip off Rey in 'The Last Jedi' with her Night King finishing move?
I finally caught up with this thread. It seems like what some people disliked about this episode is exactly what others liked about it. I will list the items that seem to be divisive:
Army of the dead vs the Iron Throne
These are the 2 major story lines. The showrunners decided to end the army of the dead story line with 3 episodes to go. This is bothering those that preferred this story line and the fantasy elements, and wanted it to last to the end of the series. While I fully understand this sentiment, it seems like both the writer of the books and the GoT showrunners viewed the "Game of Thrones" part as more important and that is how it is going to be. I would have liked it either way.
Blurry and confusing action scenes
I was one of the complainers here. While I would have preferred it to be more clear and less confusing, I understand why they did this way. It was very effective. It helped build up the sense of dread throughout the episode.
Arya killing the Night King
Some feel NK was killed too easily, while others love the way it was done. I am one of the latter. While I always considered Arya as one of the people who could kill the NK, the way it was done caught me by surprise. I loved it. And it was set up nicely. Arya is the person who was trained as an assassin. And the NK was a pretty arrogant dude, the bastard even smiled when the dragon fire didn't kill him. So Arya's particular set of skills and the arrogance of NK was the right combination for this conclusion.
Fantastic episode, can't wait to see it again. And we got 3 more long episodes left in the greatest TV series of all time.
Army of the dead vs the Iron Throne
These are the 2 major story lines. The showrunners decided to end the army of the dead story line with 3 episodes to go. This is bothering those that preferred this story line and the fantasy elements, and wanted it to last to the end of the series. While I fully understand this sentiment, it seems like both the writer of the books and the GoT showrunners viewed the "Game of Thrones" part as more important and that is how it is going to be. I would have liked it either way.
Blurry and confusing action scenes
I was one of the complainers here. While I would have preferred it to be more clear and less confusing, I understand why they did this way. It was very effective. It helped build up the sense of dread throughout the episode.
Arya killing the Night King
Some feel NK was killed too easily, while others love the way it was done. I am one of the latter. While I always considered Arya as one of the people who could kill the NK, the way it was done caught me by surprise. I loved it. And it was set up nicely. Arya is the person who was trained as an assassin. And the NK was a pretty arrogant dude, the bastard even smiled when the dragon fire didn't kill him. So Arya's particular set of skills and the arrogance of NK was the right combination for this conclusion.
Fantastic episode, can't wait to see it again. And we got 3 more long episodes left in the greatest TV series of all time.
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