Spoilers Game of Thrones: The Final Season

[Thestral]

Well that was right fucked up, what a shitty episode.

Let's start with the good.

Um.

Ummmmm....

Oh! Full marks for really showing how fucking brutal and horrific and apocalyptic warfare is inside a city. Let alone warfare with nuclear death coming from the sky and laying waste to everything. I actually thought the scenes of Arya running through the streets desperately trying to save anyone - ANYONE - that she could while the world burned around her was fantastically done. Very, very hard but well-shot for sure. And in general there were some beautifully shot moments.

Somewhat relatedly, CleganeBowl turned out to be as vicious and impossible as I expected, and they really sold the Mountain as an emotionless killing machine huh? I also laughed at what happened to Qyburn at the end. But more importantly, I really loved the Hound turning to Arya at the last moment and convincing her not to follow him, to become like him. I mean, they immediately undercut it (or had they already?) by giving Arya somebody else to add to her list, but it was still a nice moment.

Let's see, um... oh, nice final scene between Jaime and Tyrion, that was really well-done at least. Nice to see Davos as always looking out for the smallfolk. Also really really liked the moment when the Lannister soldiers laid down their arms, shame it was immediately undone, but we'll get to that. Also holy hell, now *that* is a dragon, but again... getting to that. And I thought the final mournful/wistful version of The Rains of Castamere was really lovely, at least something positive from that.



Now the bad... hahaha, how about just lowlights.

So uh... why *exactly* did Daeny not just absolutely cut loose on Euron's Iron Fleet last episode? I mean damn, those ships come in two flavors apparently: murderbot and kindling. I didn't expect them to actually shoot Drogon out of the sky, but shit... did they even try? Last time we saw a rain of ballistae bolts, this time we got... one or two from Euron? I didn't expect Euron's fleet to make it but jesus, talk about going out with a whimper.

Related to that: after all the buildup of the scorpions and lovingly showing them stationed all around King's Landing, they certainly were rather casually dispensed with. Likewise the Golden Company - on the one hand it was pretty glorious seeing the wall/gate explode outward and dragonfire rain down from behind (hey look, intelligent use of air tactics)... but it was also kind of empty. "Woo big scary army"....?

Also related to that: fucking Euron. Even in death a disappointment, though I'll admit I did laugh at his dying words. But randomly washing up on the beach and dying in a fight with Jaime after somehow surviving his ship blowing up? I suppose we're supposed to be like "oh yeah, Jaime's fucking pissed that Euron thinks he deserves to be with Cersei" but uh... why do I care? I was a lot more interested in Theon or Yara being the one to take him down.

Speaking of Jaime (and Cersei).... ugggggghhhhh. So I guess his whole arc and development over, well... the course of the show was for nothing? We're right back at the "nobody else matters but me and you fuck the world"? It's like the writers decided after he'd slept with Brienne "Welp, time to reset his character back several seasons." I suppose in the end he and Cersei deserved each other but damn if it doesn't feel pointless. Speaking of Cersei, oh hey we get her some sympathy and she stops being a total smirking caricature but by that point it was too late for me to care. Remember when 60 minutes of show ago she casually executed a prisoner for... lulz?

And then of course... fucking Daenerys. Sure they've been hinting that she might go crazy or might take things too far but this is the first time the writers chose to make her burn down a city after it surrendered and decide to wantonly murder thousands of innocent people. She never did that in Essos, and showed some sympathy for the regular people but here? Bells are ringing, Lannister soldiers are laying down their arms, city is hers, but suddenly for an inexplicable reason NOPE KILL KILL KILL. Like with Jaime, this felt like the writers just fucking with the show to make things as awful as possible. Also: what the hell, Grey Worm decides to say "fuck surrender you're all gonna die"? Because regular Lannister soldiers that have surrendered to you are to blame for Missandei? (although this comes right after Missandei, the most peaceful, kind, gentle character on the show declares that Daeny should burn it all down as her last words, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised.) Why couldn't she just fly to the Red Keep and BBQ it? Think the people wouldn't fear her then? Why even bother with the army coming into the city when you have a fucking dragon that can fly up to Cersei's window and take care of things?

I'm sure I've missed plenty but that'll do for now.

She always had the potential. She a rage, a sense of entitlement, anger, and ruthlessness throughout the series. It was usually somewhat in check thanks to her advisors and friendships. She has lost those through death and betrayal. She was feeling isolated and that she only had fear to go on. If things had gone a little different, she might not have gone all berserk. But, she was a tinderbox ready to go off!

But she never actually went nuclear on a civilian population. Even when the Dothraki captured her and reduced her to a slave again she didn't burn down the entire place, just took all the chiefs. She didn't burn down Mereen when the Sons of the Harpy didn't obey her. Why does she burn down King's Landing especially after it surrendered? It can't just be that she lost advisors or even her children.

Even if she always had the potential it's fine to be vastly disappointed that they actually went there.

People ignored the copious amount of in-series evidence that Jaime was never going to leave Cersei behind permanently because they saw what they wanted to see in his 'redemption' even though he made it clear throughout the series that he wasn't the 'white knight'.

Sounds like something a character going through a redemption arc and coming to care about people beyond himself (and his nasty incest fetish) would say, culminating in choosing to break tradition and knight somebody who he'd come to respect and care for in her own right. But nope, instead of finishing seasons-long-growth they decided fuck it, time to reset Jaime and let him die spouting the same old edgelord "nothing matters but us" line.


ETA: Oh and I forgot something! I laughed out loud and not because it was actually funny that Jaime survived being run through and then stabbed in the kidney for like... 40 minutes or something including physically supporting Cersei down into the dragon skull chamber so he could die pretty in her arms.

 

[DigificWriter]

Other people ingored the copious amount of in-series evidence that Dany was never going to get the throne because they saw what they wanted in her "goodness" even though she made it clear throughout the series that she wasn't the "White Queen."

Nice try, but no.

 

[theenglish]

I did not expect her to descend into full on supervillainy and wholesale slaughter of civilians after the battle was already won, and of her and Grey Worm letting her troops rape and murder because they were hurting.

I know. I predicted something like this at the end of Season 6, and that it would end with Jon against Dany, but the level of pure evil she reached is not a place I thought the show would go. Basically she finished what her father wanted to do. There was a lot to like here. I loved the final scene between Tyrion and Jamie, the battle between the Clegane brothers (didn't expect Sandor to die), and the expressions on Jon and Arya's faces as the battle ensued. There were three things that I really didn't think were done particularly well:

The battle between Jamie and Euron. Based on the fighting abilities we've seen earlier, Euron should have wiped Jamie's face all over the rocks. It might have worked better if Euron had been seriously injured when he arrived on shore.

Cersei's end, and really her entire role in this episode. She just stood there watching the battle. It was a far cry from the defiant and devious character we saw last week. Also, her death was just disappointing--I would have liked to have seen a little more conflict from her.

Tyrion. We expect Jon to make the naive decisions but Tyrion tossing Varys into the Dracarys was pretty disappointing. It might have worked out better if Tyrion had not offered up Varys name until later in his conversation with Daenerys. As it stands, he walked into see her and offered up Varys name at the first hint that she is suspicious.

Going in to next week, there is obviously going to be some kind of show down between her and Jon Snow. That said, if she doesn't have Jon executed outright it seems that Varys letters are going to spread throughout the seven kingdoms, who will rally behind Jon. At this point, my predictions (without having read any rumors or spoilers--just my thoughts) based on one episode remaining is that the show ends with Dany on the throne but the people knowing that Jon is the true king. Whether or not Jon lives is difficult to predict.

Of course, the "happy" ending now is for Dany to be killed and Jon or practically anyone else on the throne.

 

[eschaton]

I have to say, in a weird way I'm impressed at the fake out that they played up Cersei as a major antagonist for the endgame - but it's really Dany who's the final antagonist.

I mean, what did Cersei's team (such as it is) really do this season? Nothing other than shooting down a dragon and beheading a prisoner. That's the reason she wasn't getting much buildup - that we didn't even see her group in episodes 2/3, and only had a few scenes of her smiling, sipping wine, and (implied) fucking Euron in the first episode. She was never a major aspect of the season. Which is why all her forces just fell apart like a hot knife through butter.

 

[Mr Awe]

But she never actually went nuclear on a civilian population. Even when the Dothraki captured her and reduced her to a slave again she didn't burn down the entire place, just took all the chiefs. She didn't burn down Mereen when the Sons of the Harpy didn't obey her. Why does she burn down King's Landing especially after it surrendered? It can't just be that she lost advisors or even her children.

Like I was saying, it wasn't predestined that she'd go mad like that. It took a particular sequence of events, a combination of things. In the earlier events you mention, she had close advisors around her, didn't feel isolated, and she didn't have, at that point, all powerful dragons to enact her powerful outrage on the spot. It's a combination that all went wrong for the battle at Kings Landing. Not all of those crucial pieces were in place earlier.

At Kings Landing, everything is the wrong way for her (isolation, betrayal, deaths, etc.) *and* she has the dragon so when she gets enraged during the battle she can enact the destruction before she comes back to her senses.

She's in bad spot psychologically and she has a WMD in her hands. We saw the end result.

 

[Xerxes82]

Ok, so I had made several predictions (I think I posted them in this thread at an earlier time). I was pretty much entirely wrong, outside of the obvious (Varys). Which is satisfying in a really meaningful way. This show manages to still surprise, while staying true to itself.

Not going to lie, I straight up didn't see Dany's choice here coming. It's been obvious that she was going to do something that was a 'point of no return' moment relative to the other characters, but I never imagined this one. Kudos to Emilia Clarke, that moment was really well done. The conflict between what she knew to be right (letting the city surrender) and what she wanted to do (hurt everyone because she felt vulnerable), it all played out on Dany's face in those few seconds. There's a beautiful tragedy in watching absolute power (in this case, a weapon of mass destruction) corrupt someone we know can be better than this. In watching somebody who has occasionally flirted with crossing the line just give in and really unleash. Somebody upthread called her Darth Dany, and it's true in the sense that watching her fall hit notes that we should have gotten from Anakin Skywalker.

Of all the people to ultimately break through Arya's trauma and reconnect her even momentarily with humanity, I never expected the Hound. I loved that moment. It felt really earned after everything we've seen them go through. And the sections with Arya in the city were almost viscerally traumatic. Also, I loved getting to see Zombie Mountain. Nicely done all around.

I'll admit, I was one of those hoping that Jaime was going back to stop Cersei. I was wrong, and the show is better for it. This moment felt so true, because of the way that the actors have handled these two all series long. Jaime would risk everything for Cersei, even past the point of suffering mortal wounds. And of course they would die in each other's arms, a twisted subversion of the usual romance associated with more normal pairings in fantasy stories. In a weird way, Jaime almost gets a happy ending.

Next week, the fallout of the devastation. The few good men left in a position to make Dany answer for what she's done, against a woman who should pretty much be able to slaughter them all just because she can. And Arya, with a new name for her list? This is going to be the longest week ever.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

So uh... why *exactly* did Daeny not just absolutely cut loose on Euron's Iron Fleet last episode? I mean damn, those ships come in two flavors apparently: murderbot and kindling. I didn't expect them to actually shoot Drogon out of the sky, but shit... did they even try? Last time we saw a rain of ballistae bolts, this time we got... one or two from Euron? I didn't expect Euron's fleet to make it but jesus, talk about going out with a whimper.

It seemed me knowing what she's was up against she figured out to attack before they could turn to focus on her. She started from up above with the sun and cloud cover into their midst to gain the advantage and then circled around before they could swing around to get a bead on her. They just couldn't keep up with the more mobile Drogon.

I did laugh when they'd yell "Fire!" and then get lit on fire. Was the term "fire" used before firearms?

 

[Thestral]

^ I mean, she dives out of the sun and clouds alright... straight towards the front of the Iron Fleet with Euron looking on like a chump and plenty of time to fire the ballistae. And again, did any of the other ships fire?

Like I was saying, it wasn't predestined that she'd go mad like that. It took a particular sequence of events, a combination of things. In the earlier events you mention, she had close advisors around her, didn't feel isolated, and she didn't have, at that point, all powerful dragons to enact her powerful outrage on the spot. It's a combination that all went wrong for the battle at Kings Landing. Not all of those crucial pieces were in place earlier.

At Kings Landing, everything is the wrong way for her (isolation, betrayal, deaths, etc.) *and* she has the dragon so when she gets enraged during the battle she can enact the destruction before she comes back to her senses.

She's in bad spot psychologically and she has a WMD in her hands. We saw the end result.

Okay, let's assume that Jon (the man she claims to love) and Tyrion aren't enough to stay her hand, although she allows the possibility of the city surrendering before sending Grey Worm off.

What in that moment enrages her? The city has easily fallen, she's made incredibly short work of the scorpions, the Golden Company, the Iron Fleet, and her remaining enemies are laying down her arms. I don't think a single person on her side has died since she left Dragonstone? And the city has given up by ringing the bells and you hear people calling out they surrender. So uh, she just... randomly snaps after total easy victory?

 

[eschaton]

What in that moment enrages her? The city has easily fallen, she's made incredibly short work of the scorpions, the Golden Company, the Iron Fleet, and her remaining enemies are laying down her arms. I don't think a single person on her side has died since she left Dragonstone? And the city has given up by ringing the bells and you hear people calling out they surrender. So uh, she just... randomly snaps after total easy victory?

It's not rage, and it's not madness, it's making an example of Kings Landing for the rest of the seven Kingdoms.

She says straight out to Jon early in the episode - she will never be loved as Queen, she will only be feared. She knows that Westeros will not bow to her willingly. The only chance she has of cementing her rule is to totally obliterate Kings Landing, with the implicit threat to do the same to any castle or city which dares to challenge her.

She even sees it as just, because in doing so, she's ensuring that no further casualties will happen elsewhere - because the people will, nay must, comply.

 

[Mr Awe]

Okay, let's assume that Jon (the man she claims to love) and Tyrion aren't enough to stay her hand, although she allows the possibility of the city surrendering before sending Grey Worm off.

What in that moment enrages her? The city has easily fallen, she's made incredibly short work of the scorpions, the Golden Company, the Iron Fleet, and her remaining enemies are laying down her arms. I don't think a single person on her side has died since she left Dragonstone? And the city has given up by ringing the bells and you hear people calling out they surrender. So uh, she just... randomly snaps after total easy victory?

So, Jon and Tyrion both betrayed her in her own mind. So, they're NOT a plus in this situation. In fact, Jon rebuffing her advances makes her chose the fear tactic, which she states herself. Going into battle, that's her goal in addition to winning. Strike fear so after she wins the battle she also wins the war.

As for specifically what enrages her, I don't know exactly. I think it was her mindset overall plus the heat of the battle. The showrunners said she saw the Red Keep and it reminded her of it being taken from her family. I can buy that. I also think she pictured Cersei in there and she wanted to take her out "root and stem" like she said in the last episode. So, she rained destruction down.

It was like a switch was flipped. And, I think it was a whole combination of things. Of course, up there on the dragon there was no one around to calm down either. She got pissed thinking of Cersei and wanted to dismantle her. And, she was sitting on a WMD while having those thoughts.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

^ I mean, she dives out of the sun and clouds alright... straight towards the front of the Iron Fleet with Euron looking on like a chump and plenty of time to fire the ballistae. And again, did any of the other ships fire?

I took it that she "dive bombed" the fleet as opposed to flying towards them and just because Euron caught on doesn't mean the fleet would all see her coming in from above and adjust in time. Plus, she dove into the middle of the fleet not towards the front.

 

[Xerxes82]

What in that moment enrages her? The city has easily fallen, she's made incredibly short work of the scorpions, the Golden Company, the Iron Fleet, and her remaining enemies are laying down her arms. I don't think a single person on her side has died since she left Dragonstone? And the city has given up by ringing the bells and you hear people calling out they surrender. So uh, she just... randomly snaps after total easy victory?

Dany wanted to hurt people. The whole reason she's attacking, in that precise moment, is not strategic. It's personal. She's been hurt, she feels vulnerable and afraid. And damn it, she's going to make someone hurt.

This has actually been her M.O. from the beginning. She doesn't like being made to feel weak, vulnerable or powerless. She lashes out, particularly violently, when it happens. And she confesses to Jon at the beginning exactly what is on her mind.

She doesn't WANT the city to surrender. She wants to burn it, to burn her enemies. To let loose and feel powerful. To not be a scared little girl again. But the armies of her foes, the people she can hurt with little consequence, don't even have the decency to fight to the last man! They surrender, and yet her hurt and pain aren't sated. And in that moment, with the bells ringing and the battle won, she simply decides that it isn't enough. She isn't done. She has the power to do what she wills, and what she wills is death.

 

[Mr Awe]

It's not rage, and it's not madness, it's making an example of Kings Landing for the rest of the seven Kingdoms.

She says straight out to Jon early in the episode - she will never be loved as Queen, she will only be feared. She knows that Westeros will not bow to her willingly. The only chance she has of cementing her rule is to totally obliterate Kings Landing, with the implicit threat to do the same to any castle or city which dares to challenge her.

To be fair, I think it's both--as I state in my other comment. But, yes, definitely part of it is an intentional tactic to win not only the battle but the war.

But, I do think it's a momentary madness based on a combination of things that had happened to her recently.

It turned out that even more fear was not necessary. Remember how Cersei's soldiers surrendered after seeing the dragons and the damage? That was sufficient fear to win the battle and the war. It was Dany's emotional response that pushed it beyond that. That was not based on tactics.

 

[EmoBorg]

This battle had more emotional impact for me than the battle of Winterfell. Dany going crazy was expected but still i was not prepared for the level of violence she unleashed.

The Lannisters surrendered but still got massacred.

If Dany is going to rule, she is going to rule through fear. No way she will have the support of the majority of Westeros after this.

Jon and Tyrion have realized that Varys was right about Dany.

Jaime and Cersi's deaths reminded me of Cassian Andor and Jyn Erso's deaths from Rogue one.

Qyburn went out not with a bang but with a whimper.

Cleganebowl ended in a draw.

 

[Tarek71]

 

[EmoBorg]

Next Week Episode: Dany gets tried in The Hague.

(Joke from the Internet)

 

[StarMan]

Phew! Amazing episode. Still processing what Dany did. That's one line she can't uncross.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Phew! Amazing episode. Still processing what Dany did. That's one line she can't uncross.

I think she's technically done worse than all of her ancestors combined plus the Freys.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I think Daeny's impatience is mostly at work here. She keeps expecting a different level of devotion than the public normally gives.

Sansa hates her but I don't think most Westerosi would.

Until now.

 

[StarMan]

I think she's technically done worse than all of her ancestors combined plus the Freys.

When she took off I thought she was going straight for the Red Keep. I had to pick my jaw up off of the ground when I saw she was taking out civilians.