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Spoilers Game of Thrones: The Final Season

Well, there is that.

If I had hung in with the show and was, as someone said, "invested" in Dany at this point I think I'd be pretty unhappy at her turn. Not unhappy enough to sign a petition or insist that the creators had done it "wrong," somehow.

GOT was excellent escapism. Well acted and well written escapism, which is my favorite kind of TV. I don't have any real "serious" problems with anything they did, other than rushing through the final season. Now if they'd have killed off Sansa, I'd have had a serious problem with that. LOL

Queen of the North!
 
GOT was excellent escapism. Well acted and well written escapism, which is my favorite kind of TV. I don't have any real "serious" problems with anything they did, other than rushing through the final season. Now if they'd have killed off Sansa, I'd have had a serious problem with that. LOL

Queen of the North!
Agreed. My main quibble would be the rushing in the final season.
 
I got what you're saying. You're comparing Benioff and Weiss to serial killers and sexual predators. Big reach over something inane as a tv show.

Dany has been presented with borderline psychopathic tendencies plenty of times. Her whole breaker of chains schtick in Essos was purely so she could build a power base and win people over so she could then go to Westeros and burn cities. It was never about breaking the wheel. Sorry you couldn't see that.

That would be what we call....wrong. Half the time she was ambivalent about going to Westeros.
 
The writing was on the wall. Daenerys went into full megalomaniac mode. The pretext to "free the people of the world," while ignoring that she'd be incinerating most of them along the way. Uh, conflicted to say the least. Also, I don't think she'd make a good ruler. She simply had power via money and a WMD. She didn't earn any kind of military or political savvy. No way, no how.

Sansa would deserve to be the queen. Although Sansa was bitchy, whiny, and self-entitled in the beginning with dreams of putting up with Joffrey's abuse just so she could be queen, she did wise up in short order. Sansa had the greatest epiphany of everyone, enough to even fool Lord Baelesh (Little-finger), and drop her baby-girl princess dreams for reality. She would make a far more practical queen than Jon Snow. Jon was a skilled swordsman who could train men and lead them... but politically? Doubtful. It was pretty sensible for him to end up back with the Night's Watch.

I also think Sansa would be more sensible than Bran. Now certainly Bran could be an adviser. No doubt about that. But he has no talent for ruling that we've seen. He would really have no fresh ideas of his own, but have to constantly solicit them from his staff and then try to weigh the decision. At least Sansa would have more imagination, and personality. I expected Bran would be nominated, but that he'd defer to Sansa. In any case... it's all a wash. Doesn't really matter now, since there won't be a sequel.

As for Jon Snow... I could see him coming back to Winterfell at some point, because it's a pretty bleak life on that wall. He deserves better. He saved the realm! He defeated Daenerys. How could anyone forget that. He should essentially have the equivalent of not having to pay taxes for the rest of his life.
 
I'll repost here my comment from another forum:

I haven't been this disappointed with an ending of a story sine they wrapped up the Shadow War in B5.

It is really unbelievable how bad this is. This series which was famous for it's grey characters and complicated conflicts does this. Daenerys turns pure evil for no reason, she predictably gets killed with ease, the rest of the characters hold hands and agree that all this squabbling about the crown was pretty silly after all. They reward themselves with cushy jobs and joke a bit while patting each other on the back. Utterly disgusting.
 
Ratings: Game of Thrones Series Finale Breaks Records, Tops 19 Million Viewers

The sixth and final episode of the eighth and final season, titled “The Iron Throne,” delivered an audience of 13.6 million viewers in linear viewership alone, topping the previous record (12.5 million) set just the week prior and unseating The Sopranos‘ Season 4 opener (13.4 million) as HBO’s most-watched single telecast ever.

Across all HBO platforms (linear, HBO GO and HBO NOW), the fiery episode amassed a record 19.3 million viewers, exceeding the previous series high of 18.4 million (again, set by Episode 5, “The Bells”).
 
So, I have to wonder if that means that it was shown on 19 million television sets, or if that's an estimate as to how many people actually watched. I've never subscribe to HBO and I've always depended upon friends who have let me watch it with them either live, or at a later date. I watched it at a viewing party, and I know that viewing parties are common. I wonder how many actual people watched the show, rather than how many subscribers streamed it.
 
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So, I have to wonder if that means that it was shown on 19 million television sets, or if that's an estimate as to how many people actually watched. I've never subscribe to HBO and I've always depended upon friends who have let me watch it with them either live, or at a later date. I watched it at a viewing party, and I know that viewing parties are common. I wonder how many actual people watched the show, rather than how many subscribers streamed it.
I don't have an HBO subscription, so I've always watched it with friends or family who do have one.
 
I thought it was a little unbelievable that Grey Worm would take Jon prisoner for weeks awaiting submission to someone else's authority on deciding his fate after Jon assassinated Daenarys. Maybe old Grey Worm (and by that I mean the one from two episodes ago), but not the new unthinking murderbot Slay Worm.
Hell, it's inconceivable to me that the Dothraki didn't have something to say about it either, given how worked up Daenerys had gotten them over the idea of going around and "liberating" the whole damn world. They should have been rampaging around the countryside by the time the Kingmaker council was held, based on what we know of the way Dothraki khalasars act after their leaders have fallen.

I laughed my ass off like someone was proposing Westerosi democracy (sorry Sam) at Dungeon Master Edmure trying to throw his hat in the ring for kingship and getting told to sit down by Sansa. Considering Cersei was just offering Bronn Riverrun less than a month ago, that means Lannister forces still held it, so was he still being held as a hostage at The Twins by the Lannister and what surviving Frey forces there might be until Cersei was dethroned?
Last we knew, the only remaining Freys were Kitty Frey, Walder's widow post-culling by Arya, and Roslin Frey, Edmure's wife. Last mention of Edmure was indeed Walder imprisoning him once more in a cell at the Twins (despite Jaime's offer to have Edmure, Roslin, and their child sent to Casterly Rock instead), so who knows how he was released. Maybe whoever took over the castle after the Freys were all killed thought it was more advantageous to free the former Paramount of the Trident, given that the Lannister support base at the time was dropping quick.

I know it's damn unlikely, but I'd love to see some follow-up HBO films set ten years after like Tyrion suggested to show everyone's progress and whether they were able to sustain this experimental government or if more of the kingdoms had Wexited like the North did. The Iron Born didn't seem too happy and are always independence minded, and the Dorne will probably only stay so long as there's a marriage proposal to Bran, which who knows if he's even interested in such earthly pursuits anymore.
Wouldn't surprise me in the last if the Hightowers at the least would end up rebelling against the upjumped sellsword that somehow inexplicably came to be landed at Highgarden.

I got the distinct impression from Jon's wistful turn back at the closing of the gate at the Wall that he might just say fuck it and stay North of the Wall with his BFF Tormund and Ghost (Jon and Ghost scene FTW), and they'll adopt some Wildling kids with Uncle Benjen dropping by from time to time to play hide-and-seek with them. What is even the function of the Night's Watch now except as a dumping off point for everyone's undesirables? What are they, like a snow patrol now? Park rangers? I'm a little surprised that Grey Worm accepted Jon's "punishment" so easily; it was like the Klingons accepting Kirk's demotion to captain in ST-IV, they were essentially giving him back what he always meant to do.
I'm leaning towards thinking that the whole "send him to the Night's Watch" thing was a ploy and that there isn't really a Night's Watch anymore (although we did see some men in the traditional uniform at Castle Black even beyond the two that escorted Jon north, who could easily enough have been plants by Sansa to appear authentic).

I’m not so worried about ten years. Thirty, forty years, fifty years. When Bran’s health starts failing and the next generation of ambitious people are rising. Unless Tyrion crafts some kind of constitution limiting the King’s power, the power struggle to succeed Bran will start the wheel turning again. The power struggle to win those votes next time will be underhanded and vicious. The wheel has not stopped, just the brakes have been firmly applied.
I was saying much the same to my wife last night after the episode was over. The short term isn't the issue here; it's the next succession, whenever that comes. Their only real hope here - and even this one is weak, to me - is for Bran to live as long as the former Three-Eyed Crow in this version of the story, to the point where the generation living at the time can't imagine a different way of being ruled any longer.

The writing was on the wall. Daenerys went into full megalomaniac mode. The pretext to "free the people of the world," while ignoring that she'd be incinerating most of them along the way. Uh, conflicted to say the least. Also, I don't think she'd make a good ruler. She simply had power via money and a WMD. She didn't earn any kind of military or political savvy. No way, no how.
I'm sympathetic to some criticisms re: Dany's more overt shift this season, but as you and others have pointed out we've definitely had sign posts along the way to point towards this outcome. There are two good ones from her time in Mereen that come to mind. The first being her conversation with Hizdahr zo Loraq in which she initially expressed very little concern over the Great Masters that were executed in retaliation for the murders of the slave children, and later on when Hizdahr is instructed via Jorah to tell the Wise Masters of Yunkai that they can either "live in [her] new world or die in their old one."
 
Well, it's a wrap.

I just utterly loved (sarcasm) how the show itself couldn't decide if Daenerys was insane or just plain evil. At times she looked like she had intended to do this all along, and at other times she seemed completely delusional with her head high in the clouds. No matter what anyone says, I just can't condone equating her past deliberate cruelty to punish who she deemed guilty with how she just massacred one million people because they lived in a city held by Cersei. And yes, I'm fully aware that this is actually how it was done in the Middle Ages (and for the record, I actually chuckled at Yara not having the littlest clue what the others are upset about because as an Ironborn that's what she would've done in Daenerys' place as well). It still doesn't make it any less infuriating for me. Especially as how Tyrion himself equated Daenerys' past, villainous but internally consistent "I'll punish those who resist and stand in my way" behavior with her current "I'll burn everything and kill everyone so that I could reform the ashes to my image" batshit insanity. One may bring up the things she learned from and did among the Dothraki, but her whole character arc after Drogo died was basically learning she can't just go around and threaten to burn everyone if she actually wanted people to listen to her. She learned to rule, albeit with a cruel and self-serving sense of justice, and actually seemed like she cared for the smallfolk and the slaves she liberated (remember when she was upset when Drogon ate a child?), but for the last two episodes, she just threw it all out the window and decided to be a dragon.

Yes, I understand that this was the point of Daenerys, and even Tyrion highlighted that for us: to make you realize how you blinded yourself to her villainy just because you wanted her to win. Nonetheless, I still think it could've been done in a more nuanced way, like her going after Cersei in the Red Keep and burning it down, letting everyone who retreated back to the keep die as collateral damage, but no, the show had to go for the shock factor and have her murder a million people who she then claims to have liberated just so that even the dumbest viewer understands she was evil all along.

At least Bronn got his fookin' castle so it looks like we have a winner for the game.
 
I dont think Dany lied about anything. With some dictators it's maybe will to power. They have no coherent ideology. There is no Cause they are pursuing. But some are ideological revolutionaries. Marxists, Maoists, National Socialists, Fascists, etc. Anyone out to make a New World, a New Society, a New Order might be willing to use the already ample human capacity for rationalization and making a hero of ourselves within our own story, and justify nearly any action, even atrocities, as necessary, painful sacrifices for whatever Messianic Age society they think they are building.

Tyrion spoke to some of this. Nothing remotely surprising about any of her actions.
 
It was just utter bullshit. I am not arguing that Dany was a super good person, but going from kneel or burn to kneel and burn for no sensible reason was just a colossal failure in writing. They were quite plausibly setting up a fatal rift between him and Jon, and her turning against him, even murdering him, would have been believable. Directly nuking civilians at the moment of victory for no reason at all was just completely stupid and didn't fit her characterisation at all.

That Dany turned out not to be a shining flawless saviour is not a problem, but turning an interesting nuanced character into a cardboard cartoon villain was. It was made even more garish by the laughable kumbaya happy endings for the other characters.
 
Alright, just so that I talk of something that's just tangentially connected to Daenerys. Did R+L=J ultimately have any point other than serving as the seeds for the conflict between Team Essos and Team Westeros? What exactly was the role R'hllor intended for Jon by resurrecting him?

I've just read a review on Vox that summed up my thoughts about the show after they've ran out of published material: characters were doing things because the plot required them to, not because it was in character for them. It's almost as if GRRM's notes that D&D were given were just a few bullet-point lists and they simply crossed off everything without stopping and considering whether it made any sense or it would need to be connected somehow.

Seriously, Westeros becomes an elective monarchy because Tyrion Lannister makes an impassioned speech in the middle of hostage negotiations? Sheesh. Especially when there's ample historical precedent for medieval parliaments being created as ultimatums presented to a king that didn't behave and/or was weak enough to be bullied around by the high lords. It would've been more believable to end up with a Magna Charta/Golden Bull (well, I'm a Hungarian so I'm contractually obliged to mention it) and the nobles claiming the responsibility to resist the king if he broke the feudal contract.
 
Seriously, Westeros becomes an elective monarchy because Tyrion Lannister makes an impassioned speech in the middle of hostage negotiations? Sheesh. Especially when there's ample historical precedent for medieval parliaments being created as ultimatums presented to a king that didn't behave and/or was weak enough to be bullied around by the high lords. It would've been more believable to end up with a Magna Charta/Golden Bull (well, I'm a Hungarian so I'm contractually obliged to mention it) and the nobles claiming the responsibility to resist the king if he broke the feudal contract.
There is more in-universe historical precedent for the sort of council that we witnessed in the finale than there was at the time for something like a parliament springing up. Great councils were a thing in the books, although admittedly I can't recall with certainty if any were ever referenced in the show (I don't think so, but not positive). And of course there's also the ironborn example of kingsmoots, which we did see.

[meme]
;) (I didn't have one... but I will most definitely watch whatever prequel they come up with)
I'm amused, though I also feel it necessary to counter: But there's so much else on HBO worth the price of a subscription!
 
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