Game Of Thrones Season 6 Discussion (Spoilers)

[Venardhi]

In the books...

Spoiler: book spoilers

When he was young Rhaegar was a bookish bloke, until he read the prophecy of "The Prince That Was Promised" and came to believe it was about him so he picked up a sword to become a great warrior. Later, he came to believe that it wasn't actually about him, but his children, and that "The Prince" wasn't one person, but three because "the dragon has three heads". At his point he had two children, and his wife was unable to bear more.

Spoiler: book spoilers

More specifically why he chose HER, there was a great tournament in the Riverlands where Lyanna took umbrage at the poor treatment of Howland Reed (The guy who stabbed Arthur Dayne in the neck during his fight with Ned) by some southern Knights and (we can gather from Meera's telling of the story) armored herself in the guise of a mystery knight (which Rhaegar himself was rumored to do in order to assure no one went easy on him) and defeated several of them. That same tournament was where Rhaegar crowned Lyanna with blue winter roses (a recurring symbol linking her to Jon in visions and prophesies) the "Queen of love and beauty" over his wife, the only available recognition of the victories which she could not claim, due to being neither a man nor a knight.

From that point onward it is safe to assume a torrid love affair ensued, with Lyanna eventually running from her promised marriage to Robert. This set in motion the events that lead to Ned's brother and father being killed by the mad king and eventually the war that put Robert on the throne.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

How many magic horns are there in GoT?

Spoiler: season 7 speculation

I read an article that said in the books Euron Greyjoy has a horn called Dragonbinder that can be used to control Dragons. The article also said Euron attacks the oldtown city that Sam is in right now, and perhaps that is how he gets the horn. So the horn that Sam has maybe this dragon horn instead of the wall breaker horn.

I think I rather not see any magic horns in season 7.

I don't get why magic horns are so lame and such a dealbreaker in a world with magic Mission: Impossible faces that fit and move seamlessly and alter your height and hair style at will, magic necklaces that conceal your old crone tits, magic forest pixies that throw magic grenades, magic vagina demon assassins, magic ice walls, ten different versions of magic zombies...

 

[Venardhi]

An ancient artifact that is effectively an "I win" button is far less interesting than any of your examples. The faceless men magic works to the extent that it needs to but is clearly limited in scope and application. The necklace itself wasn't the magic, its removal was a representation of Mel reaching a low point of despair, casting aside any pretense of power. The Children are intrinsic to the plot. Mel's shadow assassins had a very real cost in "King's Blood" which had limits.The Wall has a clearly defined role that is foundational to the plot and world as we know it. As far as the undead, R'hllor's form of resurrection bringing the body to life which in the books seems to lack the "soul" of that body, Qyburn's alchemical/necromantic form that brings back Gregor (or at least keeps him from dying entirely), and the Others/White Walker's form which seems to basically be warging into the dead in the show.

Blowing a magical horn simply lacks dramatic weight in comparison to any of them.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Well, a magical horn could have real weight to it, depending on what it does and how its used. The horn that controls dragons, for instance, could have real potential in the right storyline (especially if the dragons don't appreciate it).

But a horn who's only function is to destroy the wall (something that by definition will only ever be used once)? The only way I could see making that interesting is if it had been introduced a lot earlier and was actually a known danger that someone was actively trying to destroy/prevent over time. Then you could have the anticipation of 'will the horn fall into the wrong hands or not?'

 

[dahj]

But a horn who's only function is to destroy the wall (something that by definition will only ever be used once)?

According to legend it has been used before, for a different purpose.
It is said that when Joramun blew the horn he woke the giants from the earth.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

According to legend it has been used before, for a different purpose.
It is said that when Joramun blew the horn he woke the giants from the earth.

A multi-use horn could have potential, but also feels very ripe for sowing lots of confusion - especially in a show that has made very limited use of anything magical so far. And I still feel like a story going in that direction would've been a lot better off by establishing the existence and importance of that kind of artifact much earlier.

 

[Booji]

Brian Cox turned down a role in the early days of the show, a decision he now regrets and he hopes he'll get a second chance.

Howland Reed or Marwyn the Mage?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Howland Reed or Marwyn the Mage?

I could see him as the Archmaester.

 

[John Clark]

I could see him as the Archmaester.

Yeah, that would work for me

 

[Locutus of Bored]

And I still feel like a story going in that direction would've been a lot better off by establishing the existence and importance of that kind of artifact much earlier.

Sam and Edd discovered a broken horn among the dragonglass in a Knight's Watch cloak at the Fist of the First Men.

Mance Rayder mentioned searching for and then being in possession of the Horn of Winter that can supposedly bring down the Wall. Tormund later said it was a bluff, either because he didn't have it or because Mance didn't actually want the Wall to come down because he needed to get his people south of it for protecting them from the White Walkers too.

So it has been mentioned or teased on the show before.

And the official (as of now) cover for The Winds of Winter features a horn on the cover, which could either be the Horn of Winter or Dragonbinder. GRRM confirmed that that is the cover for now, and he no doubt had some input on that, so I think it's pretty clear that a magical horn of some sort must play a significant role in the book.

Given the show's propensity for combining storylines and characters from the books, I don't think it's much of a stretch to think they might combine The Horn of Joramun/Horn of Winter which woke the giants and can bring down the Wall with Dragonbinder, which can control dragons. Euron Greyjoy can think he's gotten control of Dragonbinder (which he's obsessed with) but instead has the Horn of Winter and almost dooms them all.

Think of the plot strands we've got that just started but need to be resolved within two short seasons:

- Sam's journey to Oldtown, possibly still with the Horn in his personal belongings, and a library of ancient knowledge to learn its secret from, has to result in some insight or development about the White Walkers which we don't already know (we already know about dragonglass, dragonfire, and Valyrian steel affecting them) in order to justify his journey there.

- Euron Greyjoy, who is obsessed with dragons in the books, originally wanted to ally with Daenarys until his niece and nephew stole his idea, and attacked Oldtown with his own Ironborn fleet in the books. If he can't ally with Daenarys he may try and get control of the dragons some other way, perhaps with a horn that he's going to try and find at the Citadel.

- The White Walkers have to pass by not only the physical barrier of the Wall, but also the magical barrier (which is why Benjen couldn't go south either). So far people dismiss every method proposed, but haven't suggested how this is going to happen otherwise.

 

[Cyrus]

Since my complaint about magic horns kind of started the latest debate, I feel I must add my 2 cents. I haven't read the books but in the TV show the magical aspects are very minimal (aside from the fact that the whole setting is fantasy since this is not our planet or our history). It feels more like a dramatic show with some fantasy elements than a fantasy show, and I like that a lot and prefer it that way. So I rather not have magic horns or magic wands, though they are not deal breakers. But the magical elements seem to be increasing lately on the show, and even the word magic has been mentioned a few times (by Benjen), so I do expect to see more dragons, more white walkers and more magic.

As to how the walkers will get south of the wall, neither the horn or the Bran loophole is appealing. I guess I prefer the latter though it would make the Bran character kind of stupid since he should be aware of this danger. Since the wall is not going around the planet, maybe the walkers hijack some ships and come south via the ocean, attack and take over castle black and open the gates. Or does the wall magic prevent the dead army from going through the gates too?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Season 7 will air "a little bit later."

But the magical elements seem to be increasing lately on the show, and even the word magic has been mentioned a few times (by Benjen), so I do expect to see more dragons, more white walkers and more magic.

Which is precisely the point. The world was once filled with magic but largely withdrew over time. Now, probably ever since the birth of Daenerys' dragons, magic is slowly returning to the world. This is more overt in the books, but it's certainly true in the show, too.

That being said, I'm not sure if the horns will come into play, even as one multi-purposed horn as suggested by Locutus. There has been very little set-up for any horn aside from the one-off visual element in the second season, but I would prefer that to the so-called Bran loophole.

 

[Mr Light]

If Bran willingly passes the Wall I would be seriously pissed. It would work if someone abducted him and dragged him through, but what mortal man would willingly help the White Walkers? Unless the abductor didn't know what would happen. A Lannister agent following Cersei's orders to bring her the son of Stark?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Not likely considering the only people who know Bran is actually alive are Meera, Benjen, Sansa, Jon, and whoever else Theon and Sansa have told. The world at large believe Bran is dead. Now that may change with Rickon's reappearance and actual death, but I have a feeling Cersei has bigger fish to fry. She hasn't given a wet snot about the Starks since Sansa fled King's Landing.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

If Bran willingly passes the Wall I would be seriously pissed. It would work if someone abducted him and dragged him through, but what mortal man would willingly help the White Walkers? Unless the abductor didn't know what would happen. A Lannister agent following Cersei's orders to bring her the son of Stark?

Bran may not know that his LoJack with the Night's King still applies beyond that one time it led him to the Three-Eyed Raven's cave. They didn't make it clear whether the wights Benjen "killed" found them because they were following their trail, conducting a wide search of the forest, or because the Night's King specifically sent them to their exact location. You'd think if he had their magical GPS coordinates he would have sent more wights after them than ten or so, and that he'd keep going after them over and over until he killed them.

Plus, why would Benjen leave them and make a point about not being able to travel south unless they intended to cross the Wall? If they're just going to keep scurrying around north of the Wall he'd stick with them to protect them rather than leave them to fend for themselves.

 

[Xerxes82]

Bran may not know that his LoJack with the Night's King still applies beyond that one time it led him to the Three-Eyed Raven's cave.

Remember, it didn't LEAD them to the cave, the Walkers already knew they were there. It merely invalidated the apparently magical protections of the cave. Where previously the Walkers and their wights were barred from entry, now the door was open. Like inviting one of Buffy's vampires inside.

Honestly, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Bran accidentally renders the wall magic void by passing it in the show's version of events. But how anti-climactic would that be compared the the wall coming down entirely? No reason you couldn't do both, I suppose.

 

[Cyrus]

It seems clear that Bran is heading south of the wall (that is why Benjen had to leave them), probably trying to reunite with his siblings (or in case of Jon, his cousin). But maybe the magic of the wall is stronger than the children cave and cannot be nullified just because the night king dude touched a dream version of Bran.

 

[dahj]

I don't think Bran will end up being the one responsible for bringing down the Wall because a repeat of "Bran accidentally makes a mistake that has dire consequences" would be a bit underwhelming after it was already done this season, and very effectively at that.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Whether he brings down the Wall or not by passing through it, my prediction is that Bran will somehow magically go back in time at the end of the series and become the Bran who builds the Wall.

 

[Venardhi]

Why? Bran/Brandon is a family name. Why does it have to be more than that?