Game Of Thrones Season 5 TV Only Discussion (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Tom
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Theon seems to have parts of Richard III. Betraying Rob, and then taking the throne (Winterfell) and "killing" his "brothers", who were the heirs to it.
I would say Cersei is smart and shrewd--in her own way. She was the one who thought of using wildfire to defend the city, it was Tyrion who used it properly.
She quickly got rid of her husband Robert before Ned could reveal her secret. All from behind the scenes.
It worked--it ultimately led to her arrest, but it worked.
Her plan to bring down Margaery pretty much worked, and Mace was out of the city. She pretty much had him either as a puppet or hostage.
Of course, all this led to her own arrest. Because a lot of the details in it are ultimately stupid.
Just about every character on this show is compromised in some way. All the good people got eliminated or put in jail or exiled.
Daenerys has a pretty good heart and hates the sight of blood, but she has had brutal things done to certain people whom you wonder if they really deserved it or not.
Even Varys admitted he couldn't help Ned if he wanted to stay alive, which meant he had to let Ned be executed.
And then he asked why, oh, why did you warn Cersei about telling her husband she was having an affair all those years and the children weren't his?
I remember seeing a historian on TV say if you wanted to stay a king or ruler in ancient times, you had to be ruthless jerk.
That's the messed up world these people live in.
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As per the prophecy from episode one of this season, all three of Cersei's golden headed children will bite the bullet... or pie?
And this is exactly why she is not smart, she only thinks of short term gain and totally neglects the long term fall out.
She staffed the small council with sycophants, incompetents and unimportant people just so she could control them but the long term result will be disastrous (just watch Tyrell make a fool of himself at the Iron Bank, do you think they will not respond in kind when they get fed up with it).
She tried to use the High Sparrow to get rid of Margaery and has conjured an evil ten times as powerful who will not be easily disposed of (not with a child king like Tommen) and it has already bitten her in the ass.
Tywin knew that he could not afford personal grievances and had to grit his teeth from time to time so the bigger goals could be accomplished. Cersei is too much under the influence of her emotions.. you cross her and she immediately wants revenge and doesn't care what kind of chain reaction she'll start.
When Oberyn was at King's Landing he nearly openly insulted Tywin, showed outright disdan and disrespected him publicly. What did Tywin do? He smiled (if only with effort) and tried to either ignore his baiting or defuse it with kind words.
He could have Obery killed but being the Hand of the King but it may have led to war with Dorne.. with Cersei at his position Westeros would be at war with Dorne.
Yeah, Cersei is not smart. Some people like to point out all of the goals she's managed to plot her way to as examples of her cunning, but everything she has done has backfired on her. She reacts quickly, and ruthlessly, to overcome whatever obstacle is immediately in her path but without any regard for what the longer term result will be. That's not at all smart.
That doesn't mean it's okay to be a ruthless jerks, it just means that if you're not a ruthless jerk you might want to consider supporting the least objectionable ruthless jerk.
I think any of us who have voted can relate.
Cersei is good attacker but a poor defender. If she were a Punch Out opponent, she'd be Great Tiger. She has a dangerous attack, but if it misses, she leaves herself wide open to a knockout blow.
They'd regard it as little more than hokum. Putting aside Dany's three, they all thought the last dragon died just ~150 years ago, so they're fairly recent history. But the last battle against the Others took place several thousand years ago and is regarded more as legend. Add to that obfuscation by the Maesters, Septons and most of the Faith.
There's no reason to think that anyone outside of the North thinks of the Others in any way differently. Even in Essos. And even most of the Notherners don't really regard them with any sense of imminent peril. It's just that they are more familiar with the stories and legends. Only Stannis, the NW and Free Folk are bracing for impact.
Basically, most of the stuff with the Others/White Walkers is just now ramping up. They're an emergent threat and it's happening in semi-real time. In an era without radios, cameras or the internet, it's just going to take time to sink in the world over. Eventually, even people in Ulthos will know.
Dany is, I'm fairly certain, not even in the vicinity of worrying about any of this. She'd regard them the same as anyone in King's Landing would, with maybe a hint more "eh, maybe" on account of her dragons and encounters with magic. And if she and the people of Essos absolutely knew about the Walkers, you'd better believe they'd care. Of course they'd care! Why the hell wouldn't they? Doing something about it is another matter, but they'd for damn sure care.
This is, this blissful ignorance of the "real threat" while violently obsessing over an ugly metal chair, kinda one of the main narrative pillars of ASoIaF. It would, literally, be a different story if they all knew and reacted appropriately.
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Beware of spoilers because the season finale has leaked.
I'd like to see Mace Tyrell turn out to be smarter than we think [not that hard lol], and it'll be interesting to see where in his mission they are when Arya kills Trant. Will that make Mace run home in fear, or make him feel liberated to sell Cersei down the river since there's no one there to shiv him now? It'll presumably just look like a random brothel killing, with no idea it's part of an attack on him. Might also depend on whether he gets word of Cersei's arrest.
All this is definitely true, but I do think she has a small talent for things like this. It's just that she's ultimately, well, dumb and childish.
She probably learned some of these skills from Tywin.
She kind of reacted like Tywin would when Margaery gave her those slights ("I wish we had some wine for you, it's a bit early in the day for us.”).
She kept a cool face and the pretend politeness. But that was about it.
That doesn't mean it's okay to be a ruthless jerks, it just means that if you're not a ruthless jerk you might want to consider supporting the least objectionable ruthless jerk.
I think any of us who have voted can relate.
Also true. When I watched the show, I was surprised by what the historian said, but he explained that the environment these people lived in was way more shakey than we would think.
I think that's what GOT is suggesting all the time.
Notice what's happening even with Danaerys' rule of Meereen. She's starting to do some ruthless things in order to keep order or even protect herself.
I don't get why so many people think Dany botched up everything with her decisions though. To me, it seems like she's doing everything a person with a strong sense of justice and empathy would do. She wants to do the right thing.
Cersei is very good at bringing people down. But it's usually unsuspecting, naive people. She took out 2/4 of the ruling Tyrell family.
Its just that now, she's almost completely f@cked up King's landing. There's barely any functioning government at this point.
Wow, they really haven't kept a tight grip on things this season at all, have they?
Denerys really only made one huge strategic mistake, and that was executing that guy. I don't think that action was even barbaric. He committed murder, there's no place in this fantasy world where murder is not punishable by death, and she made it quick and painless.
The rest of the people she's killed have been slave holders. Slavery is worse than murder, but I suppose in some cases she killed them in barbaric ways.
The rest of the people she's killed have been slave holders. Slavery is worse than murder, but I suppose in some cases she killed them in barbaric ways.
Turns out that the episode wasn't leaked but some spoiler filled pictures were leaked.
You are right, but it could be that we will skip the Tudors almost completely, (though do mark the resemblance between the Tyrell and Tudor roses!) because One theory is that the Seven Kingdoms will end under a sort of Queen Elizabeth I figure. As to who that will be....
Daenerys seems like an obvious choice, however I have also read arguments for Sansa being being the one and personally I could also see Myrcella filling the role.
Some things we already know anyway - for example, we know Cersei will have her walk of shame, because there was a big fuss when they filmed it (with local residents protesting at the nudity), but it hasn't happened in the previous episodes... So it has to be tomorrow!
I can't wait for tonights episode. I'm actually going to watch it live, I usually watch episodes days later.
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