So from your position, every ship that wasn't seen after 2378 ceased to exist?You realize of course that the last appearance made by a Galaxy-class ship was in 2378 so there's nothing to support your idea onscreen.
Galaxy Class ships (not all their cut out to be)
- Thread starter Trekboy1993
- Start date
Not my position. Your position. Remember?...
All I’m telling is that you can’t dismiss one proposition on the sole basis of "it’s not supported onscreen" (which is debatable), only to replace with another proposition which is equally not supported by onscreen evidence (and which is definite).
Nice try, but I said nothing of the sort. What I did say, however, was that there was nothing to support your idea that the Galaxy-class was some kind of "lemon."
Nah, that's not it. It's just a case that there's no real reason to believe the Galaxy-class was some kind of failure and that Starfleet immediately started planning its replacement after its introduction. What's supported onscreen--and isn't debatable--is that Starfleet obviously felt good enough about the Galaxy-class to build a number of them, with quite a few later participating in the Dominion War. What I did propose, however, was the idea that Starfleet was always introducing new ships and that the Sovereign-class wasn't some consensual proof that the Galaxy-class failed.
Ummm - Guys...
From day 1, I thought it looked awkward. That huge saucer made it look like it was top heavy and about to fall over.
The Sovereign, Intrepid, Prometheus and Defiant Class ships were, from my understanding, all created to combat the Borg threat. Shelby said they had new weapons meant to combat the Borg, but by TBOBW (one year after Q-Who), they were all still on the drawing board. Sisko reaffirms this when he tells the DS9 crew about his involvement in creating the Defiant. The Borg threat became less of a priority, but Starfleet still felt their commission necessary.
Comparing the new ships to the Galaxy showcases Starfleet changing their focus to a more militant angle. After first contact with the Borg.
Galaxy Class - 12 Type-X Phaser Arrays and 2 Torpedo Bays (one aft, one forward). Each torpedo bay is capable of firing 10 photon torpedoes at 10 different targets. Top speed warp 9.6
Sovereign - 16 Type-XII Phaser Arrays, 10 Torpedo Bays (carrying both photon and quantum), ablative armor. Top seep of warp 9.7.
Prometheus - Multi-Vector Assault Mode (one ship becomes 3), multiple phaser arrays, unknown number of torpedo bays, regenerative shielding, ablative armor, automated system. Can be crewed with a minimal force. Top speed of warp 9.9.
Defiant - 4 Pulse Phase Cannons, 3 phaser banks, 4 torpedo bays (photon and quantum), ablative armor. Top speed warp 9.5.
Intrepid - 4 Phaser Arrays + 4 Phaser Banks/Emitters and 5 torpedo bays. Top speed 9.975. The Intrepid was praised for being smart and quick.
With the exception of the Intrepid (the economy class Galaxy), all the other ships created after TBOBW are definitely war vessels first and diplomat and exploratory vessels secondary. When it counts, the Galaxy is still a tank. The episode of the week nature, paints it in a bad light. However, Galaxy still has it's place. A middle ground between the war ships post-TBOBW and the smaller ships that make up Starfleet (Akira, Constellation, Miranda, Excelsior).
Comparing the new ships to the Galaxy showcases Starfleet changing their focus to a more militant angle. After first contact with the Borg.
Galaxy Class - 12 Type-X Phaser Arrays and 2 Torpedo Bays (one aft, one forward). Each torpedo bay is capable of firing 10 photon torpedoes at 10 different targets. Top speed warp 9.6
Sovereign - 16 Type-XII Phaser Arrays, 10 Torpedo Bays (carrying both photon and quantum), ablative armor. Top seep of warp 9.7.
Prometheus - Multi-Vector Assault Mode (one ship becomes 3), multiple phaser arrays, unknown number of torpedo bays, regenerative shielding, ablative armor, automated system. Can be crewed with a minimal force. Top speed of warp 9.9.
Defiant - 4 Pulse Phase Cannons, 3 phaser banks, 4 torpedo bays (photon and quantum), ablative armor. Top speed warp 9.5.
Intrepid - 4 Phaser Arrays + 4 Phaser Banks/Emitters and 5 torpedo bays. Top speed 9.975. The Intrepid was praised for being smart and quick.
With the exception of the Intrepid (the economy class Galaxy), all the other ships created after TBOBW are definitely war vessels first and diplomat and exploratory vessels secondary. When it counts, the Galaxy is still a tank. The episode of the week nature, paints it in a bad light. However, Galaxy still has it's place. A middle ground between the war ships post-TBOBW and the smaller ships that make up Starfleet (Akira, Constellation, Miranda, Excelsior).
Disagree with this notion. As others have said there’s plenty of battle scenes in DS9 where Galaxy Class Ships are leading the charge. Furthmore, throughout the entirety of TNG at least seasons 3-7 whenever there was a standoff Picard seemed as cool as a cucumber I think knowing full well that his ship not only outclassed Rom Warbirds, or Cardie BattleCruisers, etc. There were a few exceptions for instance that Dominion Battleship that smoked the U.S.S. Valiant (a poorly lead Defianf Class ship) most likely in my opinion would be the only enemy ship that would have obliterated a Galaxy Class Ship. Obviously there are these exceptions you’ve pointed out and others such as the initial Bremen assault utterly shi**ing on everything with there pulse cannons. But the beauty of the Federation ships especially the Galaxy Class ships is their resourcefulness and ability to adapt. In the series finale the ship Ritker was commanding took a dump all over those two Klingon future battlecruisers. He made mince meat of them in seconds.
That's kind of a myth. The actual truth is that every ship in a battle group has roughly the same speed (+/- 1-2 kts), because they're designed to work as a unit.
Enterprise CVN-65 and Kennedy CV-67 were among the fastest ships in the Navy (non-nuclear Kennedy was actually faster), but that was due to the slim shape of the hull, the 280,000HP propulsion system and the fact that those two ships were lighter than the following Nimitz. Other carriers are...well...fatter and heavier (some had less power) and thus slower. This was deliberate. You don't want a carrier outrunning its escorts at 33-34kts.
Typical escort ship tops out around 32kts fresh out of drydock. A Nimitz CVN tops out 30.5-31kts.
The Galaxy class was not a lemon and I don't think Starfleet built the Sovereign class as a replacement for the Galaxy but for the ageing Excelsior class. The two class's are about the same size although the Sovereign is a lot longer and it even looks like the Sovereign was based on the Excelsior class which makes since it you think about it, the Excelsior was a very successful design but with the age of the Excelsior class Starfleet would need a replacement to take them into the 25th century. If Star Trek was a real thing I don't think there would have been any plan for the Enterprise to ever have been a Sovereign class ship as the Enterprise-D was really still at the beginning of it's life but with it's loss Starfleet took the opportunity to pass the name onto their newest and best ship class. If the Enterprise-D hadn't been lost it's likely the Enterprise-E would have been Odyssey class instead of the Enterprise-F.
We are in agreement that the Sovereign class was a replacement for the Excelsior class and not the Galaxy. The Sovereign class is about half the size of the Galaxy in terms of volume. The only reason that the Sovereign is longer is due to the nacelles and in fact if you removed the nacelles from both classes, the Galaxy would be longer.
I also agree that had the Enterprise D not been destroyed it would have remained the Federation flagship and the Galaxy class the flagship class until the Odyssey was launched.
What to do mean if...
Haha. Maybe I should rephrase that. If the world of Star Trek was real and Starfleet existed they wouldn't have had any plans to make the Enterprise a Sovereign class ship till the D was lost. But I feel like you know what I meant JesterFace!!
Get a copy of the TNG technical manual and look at the timeframes.
The U.S.S Galaxy was launched nearly 20 years after the project commenced so the fact they started on successor at that point isn't that surprising when it can take so long from initial design to first launch.
Memory-Beta says 2343 for the start of the Galaxy Class Project (prototype launch 2356, commissioned 2357), and 2365 for the Soverign-class project (prototype launch 2370).
So Star Fleet didn't start designing straight after launching the Galaxy class - the Galaxies were in service for 8 years - a time in which there were tehcnical advances, having to deal with damage to subspace, the borg and the dominion.
The USS Constitution was launched some time prior to 2245. The USS Excelsior was build by 2285. The USS Ambassador entered service around 2322-25. The USS Galaxy was launched in 2356 and commissioned in 2357. The USS Sovereign was launched in 2370.
Constitution to Excelsior: 40 years
Excelsior to Ambassador: about 40 years
Ambassador to Galaxy: at least 31 years
Galaxy to Sovereign: only 14 years...
…Why did Starfleet seek a replacement so soon? Because the Galaxy-class proved to be a lemon.
Or as I said.
a) they had to deal with starships causing damage to sub-space which would eventually put and end to travel at warp speed. So they need to make changes to ship designs (such as the variable geometry nacelles on the intrepid class)
b) the on-going threat of the borg
c) the dominion war
And you're ignoring the sovereign class were soon supersceded by ships such as the Vesta (Avertine) with Quantum slip stream drive and the Luna classes.
Or the various technologies and understanding of a lot of new ideas jumpstarted a lot of new designs in a shorter amount of time. It's very easy to see this.
Hell, it happens now. Look at computers, cell phones, etc. You buy a new computer or cell phone, it's basically obsolete in 6 months. Imagine how quickly Starfleet develops things, considering they have the resources and knowledge base of over 150 member worlds, not to mention any new technologies they find along the way from older, gone civilizations.
Hell, it happens now. Look at computers, cell phones, etc. You buy a new computer or cell phone, it's basically obsolete in 6 months. Imagine how quickly Starfleet develops things, considering they have the resources and knowledge base of over 150 member worlds, not to mention any new technologies they find along the way from older, gone civilizations.
That’s Novel-verse Trek. We’re discussing canon (and/or official) Star Trek here.
Maybe the Galaxy was replaced by Sovereign because movie writers wanted a new "cooler" ship.
In Generations they basically blew the budget in part to build Herman Zimmerman's beloved (and largely pointless) stellar cartography set and then had to cut corners dramatically on the things like the battle with the BOP. Including using stock footage from The Undiscovered Country of the BOP blowing up.
Note, in the Generations story boards the reason the Enterprise was destroyed were far more reasonable. The torpedo spread (which we know can be lethal to the ship firing them if too close) was supposed to blow up the BOP in such a manner that massive chunks of the BOPs hull rained down on the Enterprise's engineering hull, gouging out big chunks and causing the catastrophic damage to the ship.
But yeah, Brannon Braga (and others) absolutely loathed the Galaxy class Enterprise and were looking for almost any excuse to get a different ship
Note, in the Generations story boards the reason the Enterprise was destroyed were far more reasonable. The torpedo spread (which we know can be lethal to the ship firing them if too close) was supposed to blow up the BOP in such a manner that massive chunks of the BOPs hull rained down on the Enterprise's engineering hull, gouging out big chunks and causing the catastrophic damage to the ship.
But yeah, Brannon Braga (and others) absolutely loathed the Galaxy class Enterprise and were looking for almost any excuse to get a different ship
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