FX; defining moments

[RobertScorpio]

The Tholian Web's effects were all great in that episode - I think that's a great example of TOS opticals at their best.

The Cage looked amazing too, a shame they couldn't keep up that level of work 2 years later for the production run.

I agree...and I know the remastered version modernized the web scene...but I still prefer the old untouched version of Tholian Web...Maybe the TOS FX were out dated, but I still think they look better in some cases..this being one of them...

Rob

 

[RAMA]

Sure TOS was groundbreaking, but the problem with Voyager and to a greater degree Enterprise is that they made great FX...what would have been movie quality FX a few years earlier, totally standard in the ST universe. So what we would have looked at and picked as great FX in past ST series, we now took for granted on a weekly basis. I'd have to nominate ALL of Enterprise as a defining moment.

In terms of earlier series:

TOS:

The Cage
The Tholian Web

TOS-R: Retrofitting FX is groundbreaking for a TV show. Only a few BBC shows did it before CBS Digital.

STNG:

Enocunter at Farpoint-Prob the best TV FX up to that time
Where No Man HGB- Still breathtaking..they really thought out of the box to bring us the universe
11001001-Flawless FX, a tour de force of what model work could do on tv in 1988
The Child-They spent some extra money to make this look good
Q Who-Borg FX!
Yesterday's Enterprise-The E-C in close up!
Tin Man-A few years earlier an organic spaceship would've seemed impossible to make
BOBW- Almost movie quality for the time
Birthright-Beautiful dream sequence

DS9:

Most of the Dominion War battles. Bringing CGI in more but still doing good work with physical models.

ST Voyager:

Caretaker-Probab ST's biggest FX fest up to this time
Scorpion- Massive Borg, bioships, fluidic space!
Timeless- Stands out with lots of memorable images. CGI matures
Blink of an Eye- beautiful mattes, tech evolving
Critical Care-The floating hospital
Workforce- One of the best mattes ever

 

[Cyke101]

I'm just so surprised by TOS sometimes. It's wonderful to think of how this old show had turned sci-fi on its head simply by imagining things on a bigger scale. Previous movies would show ships and structures of similar size to whatever ship our hero would have. The biggest thing they'd ever show would be a planet (hung off a piece of string).

But no, not TOS. There was the ingenuity to show a space amoeba the size of a planet; the Fesarius globe whose "shuttles" were the size of the Enterprise; the sheer immensity of the Galactic Barrier; the Tholian Web that gulfed many a starship. Even something smaller like the Planet Killer dwarfed not one but two vessels. We never really saw anything like that before in cinema, nevermind television. I'm of the belief that feats of imagination like those helped put Star Trek on the FX map for years.

Also, this may not be a defining Trek FX moment, but isn't the Praxis shockwave from VI the first of its kind in cinema? As far as I know, shockwaves didn't look like that in any sort of movie before. These days, now we have everything from giant spaceships (ID4) to asteroid impacts (Deep Impact) to simple weak nukes (Iron Man) creating linear shockwaves. Even the original Star Wars movies retroactively put in visible shockwaves for the Death Stars.

 

[Trajet]

TOS defined visual effects for the 60's, imagining things on a scale hitherto unseen in science fiction, be it on television or at the movies.

TMP did largely the same thing for the 1970's movie audience, reimagining the Star Trek universe on a scale, and in a way that was relevant both to the new medium of the franchise, and the moviegoing audiences who were quickly getting used to whizzbang space effects thanks to Star Wars. It's a shame Star Trek II and III couldn't maintain the same level of quality in their visual effects (and yes, I know this was caused by them having much, much lower budgets than TMP enjoyed). Fortunately, Star Trek VI allowed the TOS movies to go out on an effects high. As has been said before, the final battle between Chang's BOP and the NCC-1701-A was extremely well realised on the big screen, as was the Praxis shockwave.

TNG's effects were initially rather weak, particularly in the first and second seasons, but anything from Season 3 onwards was pretty much state of the art for the time, and by the final few seasons, TNG was regularly putting out eye popping visuals by the standards of early 90s television. A standout for me is the Enterprise-D navigating the asteroid canyon in "Pegasus".

However, the defining moment for (modern) Trek effects for me was the transition of Voyager from a traditional miniature based, stock footage kind of show to a production fully dependant on CGI from Foundation Imaging (ex-B5) for its effects, barring the occasional reuse of a stock model shot - it was done so seamlessly that most viewers probably didn't even notice the difference.

The new technology allowed them to push the envelope in television FX (the resulting effects were far more convincing than Babylon 5 ever was, probably down to Voyager having almost twice the budget to play with), and to finally show Voyager taking some damage - something that would've been practically impossible if they'd continued to rely on miniatures and motion control photography. CGI also made the Dominion war battles in DS9 possible.... they would have been an absolute nightmare to plan and choreograph using motion control and miniatures.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Another CGI effect I never realized was a CGI effect? The Defiant in the opening credits of DS9. I never knew it was CGI until I read it somewhere.

In some of the CGI on DS9 was okay. The scene where the Bird of Prey attacks some base in the final episode with Kor, I thought the BOPs didn't look so great, almost like a cartoon. IMO..

But the battle in Sacrafice of Angels, to me, is the greatest Star Trek battle..ever. The Way of The Warrior is hot on its heels, especially towards the end of that episode.

Rob
Scorpio

 

[FalTorPan]

TOS "The Cage" -- Camera files into the bridge from outside the Enterprise

TOS "The Corbomite Maneuver" -- Fesarius flies toward and dwarfs the Enterprise

Star Trek: The Motion Picture -- Kirk and Scotty fly around the Enterprise

Star Trek: Generations -- Enterprise-D banks into orbit of Veridian III, in a shot setup reminiscent of TOS

TNG "Unification II" -- Some production guy is visible in the reflection of a table ornament on Romulus

 

[trevanian]

TOS defined visual effects for the 60's, imagining things on a scale hitherto unseen in science fiction, be it on television or at the movies.

However, the defining moment for (modern) Trek effects for me was the transition of Voyager from a traditional miniature based, stock footage kind of show to a production fully dependant on CGI

On the first point, I still think Abbott's work on the Allen shows was at times much better than trek's fx. Certainly the outdoor crash of the J2 is a terrific image in ANY era, and as I recall, the TIME TUNNEL matte shots are pretty amazing as well.

On the second point, I think of that as when I started to 'check out' of trek. It may have been coincidence, but part of the deal with CG is that you add shots but don't necessarily add quality. I'm more in favor of a few good shots to tell the story, rather than 15 mediocre ones to pad the story.

To me it is almost like ModernTrek jumped from one extreme to the other, with only a short glorious time in the sensible middle ... you had TNG eps that cried out for some visual embellishment (the minelaying in CHAIN OF COMMAND jumps out, but I'm sure there are three dozen others), but then you went the other way in the digital era and cut outside the ship anytime somebody belched.

I gave up watching trek altogether during that library scene in the beginning of Lil ENTERPRISE's second season, because I was embarassed for them ... not just the storytelling, but that anybody would try to pass off that ludicrous-looking library as a halfway decent effect in ANY era of trek.

 

[FalTorPan]

I gave up watching trek altogether during that library scene in the beginning of Lil ENTERPRISE's second season, because I was embarassed for them ... not just the storytelling, but that anybody would try to pass off that ludicrous-looking library as a halfway decent effect in ANY era of trek.

Which episode was this? I'd checked out of that show by that point, but I'd like to see the library that you're referring to.

 

[ialfan]

I gave up watching trek altogether during that library scene in the beginning of Lil ENTERPRISE's second season, because I was embarassed for them ... not just the storytelling, but that anybody would try to pass off that ludicrous-looking library as a halfway decent effect in ANY era of trek.

Which episode was this? I'd checked out of that show by that point, but I'd like to see the library that you're referring to.

I would guess the library in Shockwave, Part II.

 

[trevanian]

I gave up watching trek altogether during that library scene in the beginning of Lil ENTERPRISE's second season, because I was embarassed for them ... not just the storytelling, but that anybody would try to pass off that ludicrous-looking library as a halfway decent effect in ANY era of trek.

Which episode was this? I'd checked out of that show by that point, but I'd like to see the library that you're referring to.

I would guess the library in Shockwave, Part II.

If that is the season opener, then yeah that's it.