What you're describing is nothing new. It's not just a trend at the moment ("atm"). People have been rebooting old tales since the earliest times of story telling and myth making.
Future Trek vs New Star Wars
- Thread starter mythme
- Start date
What you're describing is nothing new. It's not just a trend at the moment ("atm"). People have been rebooting old tales since the earliest times of story telling and myth making.
In addition, TOS faced a lot of pressure from studio execs to perform or face cancellation. GR was so convinced of TOS imminent failure that he wrote several pilots for other shows to pitch to networks to continue on in his career.
As for reboots, I see it more as a fear of failure and an unwillingness to try something new for fear of losing an audience. Studios, especially right now, seem to be extremely skittish with new properties, because there is no guarantee of profitability and future success. A reboot is safer because the property is already known, usually already owned, and has a certain level of safety. Regardless of personal opinion, the popular opinion of Star Trek is Kirk and Spock. That is part of public consciousness and is easily identifiable. It's safer to work with something that is easily identifiable by an audience.
There are some stories that are just familiar and enjoyable and people want that feeling of familiarity, because it is a safe feeling too. Star Wars, the original, is a standard Hero's Journey myth, while Lord of the Rings relies upon many other myths to weave a new mythology. Cookies and Cake is right in that this has been going on since stories have been told.
Star Trek will continue on, and in my opinion, a TOS era film is safest, as far as the studio is concerned. However, I think if such films keep making money then the studio will feel more confidence to branch out more.
There was, in effect, a television series that did this-Bewitched.
It would be like Wagon Train - in space!Start there, with the basics--new frontier, action adventure, positive technological advancement, and cooperation among different groups of people. Great bits to start from
Star Trek has to keep being "about something". What is Star Wars "about", except pew-pew-pew-boom?
It would be like Wagon Train - in space!Start there, with the basics--new frontier, action adventure, positive technological advancement, and cooperation among different groups of people. Great bits to start from
Star Trek has to keep being "about something". What is Star Wars "about", except pew-pew-pew-boom?
Star Wars is the "Hero's Journey" a classic tale that has origins, roots and iterations throughout cultures. It is a story that is about classic themes like "good vs. evil" and "freedom vs. tyranny." In fact, Star Wars started to be more "about something" in the prequel trilogy, with the telling of the fall of Anakin Skywalker to the Dark Side, and his eventual restoration.
I think both are about something, but one is more thematic, while the other is more forward looking.
Of course, I could just be making all this stuff up
It would be like Wagon Train - in space!Start there, with the basics--new frontier, action adventure, positive technological advancement, and cooperation among different groups of people. Great bits to start from
Star Trek has to keep being "about something". What is Star Wars "about", except pew-pew-pew-boom?
Star Wars is the "Hero's Journey" a classic tale that has origins, roots and iterations throughout cultures. It is a story that is about classic themes like "good vs. evil" and "freedom vs. tyranny." In fact, Star Wars started to be more "about something" in the prequel trilogy, with the telling of the fall of Anakin Skywalker to the Dark Side, and his eventual restoration.
I think both are about something, but one is more thematic, while the other is more forward looking.
Of course, I could just be making all this stuff up
I think you're right.
SW was basically the utilizing the classic 'good vs. evil' idea and the 'Hero's Journey' arc - at least the first trilogy was. The prequels followed the classic 'movies for the sake of $$$, selling more toys, and staying relevant' journey.
Star Wars is the "Hero's Journey" a classic tale that has origins, roots and iterations throughout cultures. It is a story that is about classic themes like "good vs. evil" and "freedom vs. tyranny." In fact, Star Wars started to be more "about something" in the prequel trilogy, with the telling of the fall of Anakin Skywalker to the Dark Side, and his eventual restoration.
I think both are about something, but one is more thematic, while the other is more forward looking.
Of course, I could just be making all this stuff up
I think you're right.
SW was basically the utilizing the classic 'good vs. evil' idea and the 'Hero's Journey' arc - at least the first trilogy was. The prequels followed the classic 'movies for the sake of $$$, selling more toys, and staying relevant' journey.
Appreciate the comment.
I agree that Star Wars prequel was a bit of a money grab, but I also think that George Lucas always felt that people never got to see his vision of the original Star Wars. With technological improvements (and a ridiculous amount of money at his disposal) GL attempted to show us what he really wanted to do.
Also, merchandising
Star Wars is the "Hero's Journey" a classic tale that has origins, roots and iterations throughout cultures. It is a story that is about classic themes like "good vs. evil" and "freedom vs. tyranny." In fact, Star Wars started to be more "about something" in the prequel trilogy, with the telling of the fall of Anakin Skywalker to the Dark Side, and his eventual restoration.
I think both are about something, but one is more thematic, while the other is more forward looking.
Of course, I could just be making all this stuff up
Trek too is about good v. evil and freedom v. tyranny, at least sometimes. I appreciate that Wars has a mythic dimension that Trek rarely (never?) attains, but it doesn't really speak to any life issues. It's not really relatable on a human scale.
Lucas did attempt to expand this in the prequels, with politics and interpersonal drama. But as the fans rejected the prequels, it's debatable whether they count
I guess the difference is mysticism vs. humanism.
Star Wars is the "Hero's Journey" a classic tale that has origins, roots and iterations throughout cultures. It is a story that is about classic themes like "good vs. evil" and "freedom vs. tyranny." In fact, Star Wars started to be more "about something" in the prequel trilogy, with the telling of the fall of Anakin Skywalker to the Dark Side, and his eventual restoration.
I think both are about something, but one is more thematic, while the other is more forward looking.
Of course, I could just be making all this stuff up
Trek too is about good v. evil and freedom v. tyranny, at least sometimes. I appreciate that Wars has a mythic dimension that Trek rarely (never?) attains, but it doesn't really speak to any life issues. It's not really relatable on a human scale.
Lucas did attempt to expand this in the prequels, with politics and interpersonal drama. But as the fans rejected the prequels, it's debatable whether they count
I guess the difference is mysticism vs. humanism.
Relatable on a human scale is a bit subjective, in my opinion, because it comes back to the characters. Luke works very well because he is being introduced to the "larger world" of the rest of the galaxy he has been shielded from, just like the audience never knew of the Galaxy Far Far Away. Lord of the Rings does a similar concept with Frodo, illustrating the idea of going from a smaller world to a larger one. Also, the idea of the little guy beating a larger adversary is a common one as well. Different aspects of Star Wars are relatable for different people, depending on their experience.
Its relatable, to me anyway, because I can compare it to other aspects of my life. Obviously, my life is different that others, so what is relatable to me, may not be to everyone else. But, the classic tale of "good vs. evil" is more timeless, and certainly has that mystical quality that draws people towards it. Again, LOTR exists in a similar vein.
Star Trek is more humanistic, and I think you summed it up very well. It has some freedom vs. tyranny concepts, but they are few and far between. I think DS9 attempted this the most, especially with the Prophets and the Pah-Wraiths.
As a quick note, and possibly relevant to this discussion, Trek and Wars have another thing in common, at least in their original iteration (TOS and Star Wars-A New Hope). The idea of positivity in humanity. TOS showed a united human race working together in space, while Star Wars showed the triumph of the hero despite the odds and overcoming a much greater adversary. This is especially relevant as more anti-heroes were becoming common, focusing on the disillusionment of the hero and losing their faith in humanity. It was uncommon for the time in which both were produced, to a certain degree. Especially Star Wars, with the more pessimistic view at the time, and the Vietnam War debacle.
^ And then people are always wanting them to "go dark", forgetting what drew them in in the first place... Well, I like a little darkness, but hopelessness is no fun, and an unjust hero is not worth admiring.
I think Trek has dealt with tyranny fairly often, with their various "evil races", but the solution is generally collective or diplomatic (or, if the Prime Directive applies, they don't do anything).
I was going to add "To the best of my knowledge, no Trek character has gone on an epic quest to defeat a Dark Lord", but then I remembered that this is really the plot of most of the movies!
I think Trek has dealt with tyranny fairly often, with their various "evil races", but the solution is generally collective or diplomatic (or, if the Prime Directive applies, they don't do anything).
I was going to add "To the best of my knowledge, no Trek character has gone on an epic quest to defeat a Dark Lord", but then I remembered that this is really the plot of most of the movies!
It's more the presentation of "good vs. evil" in the very traditional, mythic sense, that really can't be negotiated with. Yeah, the Borg fall under that category, as do the Dominion (for the most part, even though they are negotiated with to surrender), and the movie villains, as you point out.
However, Star Trek tends to present more political opponents, meaning that they are usually ones that could have been negotiated with, but something went wrong along the lines. The line between the two certainly gets blurred, but I generally see Star Wars as treating bad guys as evil, and not really able to be negotiated with. If negotiations are done, it is usually by the bad guy tempting the good guy, so not really negotiating
I don't know. There are certainly more similarities than many give the two credit for, but I don't think it is really necessary to hash it all out.
As for Trek's future, another thing to look at is other influences upon TOS originally. Obviously, cultural influences should be taken in to account, but books like "Space Cadet" had an impact upon TOS' development as well. I think finding inspiration from original sources can help lay the foundation for a new series again.
